Unlabelled Learn Dota 2 - Strategy Discussion - Safe Lane (Core)

5/03/2017 09:47:00 am
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Learn Dota 2 - Strategy Discussion - Safe Lane (Core)

Strategy Discussion - Safe Lane (Core)

Posted: 02 May 2017 03:32 AM PDT

The safe lane is arguably the most important lane to your team's mid-lategame success, in close contention with the middle lane. You will find most hard carry heroes in the safe lane, attempting to secure farm and avoid deaths with the help of their 1 to 2 support partners. Occasionally, you may have a solo safe laner if it is a hero that usually functions as an offlaner, but your team wants to aggressively trilane in the offlane. The safe lane is the bottom lane for radiant, and the top lane for dire.

Carries tend to take the safe lane because of their relative weakness without items in the early game; the safe lane generally stays close to the tower, and has labyrinths of trees near the T1 for defensive juking if the enemy is diving.

A successful safe lane secures farm for your carry while zoning out the offlaner, and hopefully allows the support duo to roam with smoke once the carry is capable of surviving on his own for a brief period. An optimal safe lane can sometimes snowball into a successful mid due to smoke ganks by the support players. Strong support play often determines the early game.

Here's some questions to help promote discussion:

  • What qualities make a hero suitable to be a carry

  • What are some heroes that are strong/weak during the laning stage? What characteristics makes them strong/weak?

  • What should a position one be doing minute-by-minute of the lane stage?

  • How does the carry "win" their lane?

Here's a couple of helpful resources covering the safe lane. Both guides are dated, but the fundamentals and mechanics about the objectives and how the lane is played are still relevant.

Slasher's Guide to the Safe Lane

BSJ's Pull at x:53

Understanding Power Levels - DotaBuff Blog

Next week's discussion will be on the Safe Lane (Support).

Last week's discussion - Initiation

Discussion Archive

submitted by /u/Pressthepig
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Why don't we see more aggro tri-lanes?

Posted: 02 May 2017 03:30 PM PDT

With the shrine being so close to the offlane the aggro tri will have a regen advantage over the safe lane. It allows them to be aggressive atleast once and not suffer for it too much as can shrine and be back in without much down time. Any reasons it shouldn't be used more?

submitted by /u/franchise1140
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what are the disadvantages of playing without support?

Posted: 02 May 2017 05:26 AM PDT

In lower bracket you see that a lot. No support 5 carries. how can i punish them?

submitted by /u/intermaniax1
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What should be my first item on Axe?

Posted: 02 May 2017 05:25 PM PDT

Usually I go vanguard straight after tranquils, and then buy blink. Am I doing it wrong? Should I go blink 1st item?

submitted by /u/Goocherino
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Hotkey setup.

Posted: 02 May 2017 07:00 PM PDT

Hello! In an attempt to even further my DotA efficiency before I start playing ranked I would like to know how you all have your hotkeys setup.

I find I spend a ton of wasted time dragging my mouse all over the screen clicking so to improve I want to set up hotkeys for most things and would like to know from your trial and error if you had some tips for keys to use etc.

thank you!

submitted by /u/Cloversoulride
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Played a support game, think I played decently but still lost.

Posted: 02 May 2017 05:35 PM PDT

I queue solo, mark Arc mid, SF's like "dude, I'm like 4.3k, lemme mid" k, I'll support. I pick Skywrath for the counter on LC + Injoker, and for the Pudge combo. Laning phase, Bounty bodyblocks the small camp at :30 and 1, so I start roaming instead of leeching xp. SF dives tower at like 1-2 mins in. Dies, whatever, maybe he had the minimap click thing. I roam around, get a bunch of assists, I'm like 2-2-16 20 mins in, Pudge is 12-1 godlike, lion stole a bunch of kills with finger, antimage has his 18 min bf, SF lost mid but is doing okay mid game. Pudge and I get a good kill top, we back, then anti tries to 1v1 windranger with just a battlefury. Dies. Later on, we kill their 3 cores bot, rubick running away because he's almost dead. I spam ping the tower, but SF and Pudge go shrine because "need mana to push". I get in a few hits on tower and run away. Antimage gets battlefury, has trash map awareness, and keeps pushing into where the enemy T2s would be. Gets picked off a bunch, LC is pretty fed now. Bounty went a carry build, lion and I get instagibbed now, by LC, invoker, and bounty. Enemy starts catching up. SF starts splitpushing, so does antimage. However, Andy Mage doesn't push with illusions, and sends his physical hero to push. SF kills t3 top as I ping him to get back. He dies. Antimage apparently thinks that since they were top, that gives him right to try to get bot rax. He dies. I die to creeps because I'm retarded. I have to bb. Antimage doesn't buyback, because he bought an Aghs against a LC. I get mad at antimage. We hold. I buy drums for more push and for some health. We get a good kill on LC in rosh pit. We take mid rax, and rotate to bottom. I yell at my teammates to split up as invoker just respawned. Invoker gets a 3 man EMP Meatball Blast. Antimage no bb because 50 min Abyssal. They push. We lose.

TL;DR I think I did okay and it was my team's fault. (Except dying to creps that was retarded) Tell me my mistakes.

https://www.opendota.com/matches/3153899527/overview

submitted by /u/TheMutantHotDog
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Learn How to Play (& Draft) Against Top Kiev Major Heroes with the help of Coaches TONIGHT in our Community In-House Event: #TeachYOUTuesday Week 11

Posted: 02 May 2017 09:37 AM PDT

 

This Week's Focus, 5/2:

Drafting & Dealing with Top Kiev Major Heroes

Tonight, Tuesday 5/2, at 7:30 PM ET, we'll be focusing on drafting based on some of the emerging trends of the Kiev Major, along with discussing how to counter some of the top hero choices of the event. We will still be discussing gameplay of both teams' gameplay in depth across the game with a panel discussion at the end.
 

For our Games Tonight (Coaches will be edited in as confirmed):

 

Participant Information:

Coaches will be focusing on guiding your team on how to be effective in communicating strategy in the pre-phase (drafting) along with active decision making throughout the game (shot-calling).

 
They should not be used as a crutch to rely on for guidance in the game but rather an information source for questions on itemization, ward locations, positioning, spell interactions, and any other questions that may come up. Since participants will need to draft and shot-call in conjunction with playing with new people, it's a great way for novice players to experience a more competitive style of the game, Captain's Mode.

 
http://www.twitch.tv/sKaiHIGHgaming
 

What to Expect as a Viewer

 
You will learn how to draft based on some of the trends of the Kiev Major along with how to counter those playstyles.

There are two ways content may be delivered tonight:

  • Team Voice Comm Style

    I sit in with one of the teams on Discord in order to allow the entire stream to hear how coaches are impacting the way the players are shot-calling, communicating, and affecting their habits.
     
    I will be muted in the Discord to the players, and I will be providing commentary on how the coaches are leading and organizing the team. Creating cohesive drafts that accomplish something while playing with novice players can be difficult, so overhearing the communication may be helpful for the stream to listen to. For this style I would be focused on one team, either Radiant or Dire, for the entire match. We may have another caster focus on the opposite team (potentially with another live stream), details TBD.

  • Coaching & Analysis Style

    Traditional casting style of discussing theory behind the "why" people are doing things, rather than strictly providing play-by-play hype.
    I will be joined by a co-caster, preferably another Dota 2 Coach, who will assist in the overall analysis of the game while making notation of key points in the game for us to review afterwards. We will review those fight recaps, using immersive teaching methods (think Purge weatherman-style) to make it easily digestible information for all.

     
    If you're a coach with experience in live team coaching, have dabbled in casting, and can stream, contact me regarding casting the opposing team's communication feed and providing commentary.  

 

Game Format

  • Game One: Estimated 7:30-7:45 PM ET Start Time
  • Novice Skill Player Game
  • Preferred game average of 2.5k MMR or less based on registrants, could be higher

 

  • Game Two: 10:00pm ET Start Time (time is based on previous game, could be earlier)
  • Open Skill Player Game, Novice & Advanced Players Welcome
  • No MMR skill cap, games balanced to the best of my ability based on registrants.
  • Note: Coaches may need to participate rather than coach depending on skill levels of players involved in the match.
     

If you signed up for a previous week and have not yet played in this Weekly Community Event, please DM me on Discord or post here and reference your sign up name. I'll do my best to get you included tonight.

 

Check Out These Previous Broadcasts:

Note: There's a brief lapse in audio in the draft due to production issues

 

Teach YOU Tuesday is a weekly educational series that will give new and experienced players an opportunity to play in a competitive setting without the pressures of toxic team members.

Anyone who participates in the game should be able to review the cast (along with having a coach live in the game) and should receive insight to improve their performance. Best of all, you can join as a solo player or full team!
 

Click HERE for the Sign Up Form

 

Note: Have you signed up in a previous week and see this message screen or want to update your info? Click the edit button, scroll down, select which game you'd like to participate in, and I'll see you tonight!

 

 

Schedule for Tonight's Games

Our goal here is looking to teach you something that will impact your future games in a friendly environment. Participants should be able to re-watch the game and learn something in conjunction with getting live feedback from a coach in-game.

 

Are you a passionate coach who is skilled at their craft and are interested in #MakingDotaGreatAgain? or have you never tried coaching before but are interested in trying? Please DM me on Discord, fill in this form & mark Coach, or email me if you're interested in future events: thedotadoc@gmail.com -- We're a growing community based on helping everyone getting better together, would love to have you join us.

 
The Schedule for 5/2:
All times are approximates, and may vary by up to 30 minutes
 

  • 7:00 PM ET - Stream start, either one matchmaking game or going right into creating the teams for the first match while waiting for people to join the discord!
     
    During this time, join us on the sKai HIGH Gaming Discord to be considered for the In-House Games set to take place after this match. Please have your solo MMR visible in your Dota 2 profile to participate in the In-House game. If you do not have MMR, we recommend over 200 games in order to alleviate frustrations over skill gaps. Smurf accounts are not allowed in the in-house games, all teams will be balanced based on this information. Get pre-authorized for the in-house here: https://goo.gl/forms/d3WJd0k9SspRo2gs2

 

  • 7:30 PM ET - Team Creation Starts for Game 1 - Novice Skill Game  

  • 7:45 PM ET - Game 1 Start  

  • 9:00 PM ET - Post-Game Analysis & Item Raffle to Participants  

  • 9:30 PM ET - Team Creation for Game 2 (if not already done earlier)  

  • 10:00 PM ET - Game 2 Start (if not already started earlier)  

  • 11:30 PM ET - Post-Game Analysis  

  • 11:45 PM ET - Item Giveaway to Participants & Viewers  

  • Time TBD - Possible Third In-House Match?

  • Time TBD, end of stream - Immortal Item Raffle for All Viewers/Registrants

 
You do not need to be here for the bonus raffle at the end of the stream in order to be able to win the prize. As long as you've pre-registered, you'll be contacted via Discord, Twitch, or E-mail to claim your prize.

 

Upcoming Teaching Events

  • Wednesday, May 3 - NEW EVENT: Workshop Wednesday
          (details to be confirmed and will be posted on /r/LearnDota2)
  • Tuesday, May 9 - No #TeachYouTuesday, traveling for work
  • Wednesday, May 10 - Workshop Wednesday

 

See when I'm going live on twitter: @Reach4sKai

Best Regards,

sKai

 

Streamed (Almost) Daily, Starting Around ~7:30 PM (19:30) ET

See what time it is for you, here!

I am actively looking for someone to help manage the stream video content I create. If you enjoy watching dota, are well written, and want to make highlights or recap videos from these events, contact me for available work experiences.

Note: I highly recommend a microphone for any in-house events and be relatively fluent in English. If you do not have a microphone or aren't verbally fluent in english, you're still welcome to join, but this event is catered to an English speaking demographic.

submitted by /u/Reach4sKai
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How do I practice map awareness?

Posted: 02 May 2017 08:19 AM PDT

I am slightly tunnel visioned (in-game not irl) and I want to practice my map awareness. I will usually look at the minimap every 10 seconds maybe to determine where the enemy heroes are, but it won't help much. What questions do I ask myself whenever I'm looking at it? Stuff like: "Where will they be in 30 seconds?" "Where are they now?" etc.

While I'm here, I'd like to ask a completely irrelevant question (hopefully this is allowed). How do you deal with strength carries?

To me they seem to be what breaks the balance between damage and tankiness, as they have plenty of both.

My mmr is 1.9k.

submitted by /u/StfuAndPlayDota
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I suck at playing Shadow Fiend. Can I get advice?

Posted: 02 May 2017 04:54 PM PDT

I can hit my razes well, I know how to last hit properly, but I just can't seem to win with the hero. I really need some advice, I admit I am very bad, in general: playing the hero.

3.6k mmr SEA

Here is my dotabuff if it might help: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/218465033

submitted by /u/skyfreeze113
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If you build Solar Crest on Huskar and use it to reduce an enemy's armor do you lifesteal more?

Posted: 02 May 2017 04:29 PM PDT

How do I get better as Shadow Fiend?

Posted: 02 May 2017 03:43 PM PDT

I really like SF, but have a terrible winrate as him. I watched pros play him and I feel like I've learned the mechanics of this hero and try my best to last hit, but still struggle with itemization and decision-making... Can someone help me understand what I'm doing wrong? 1.4k mmr, playing unranked almost all the time. My dotabuff

submitted by /u/Silent_228
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How do you queue up different items in your quick buy?

Posted: 02 May 2017 03:37 PM PDT

Title

submitted by /u/Urzuz
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Stuck in Low MMR and Need Some Guidance

Posted: 02 May 2017 03:10 PM PDT

Dota Buff - https://www.dotabuff.com/players/122560111

solo mmr-461 party-around 1k

Hello, I've been playing for almost a year and a half now but i just started taking solo mmr seriously. I always find my self losing games after playing what I think is above average for my rank. To me it feels like my teammates are never competent in their item builds and they cant carry their own weight. I don't want to go straight into blaming them for our short comings. Can anyone here tell me if i'm not building correctly for the hero's in my game or just any general advice for me to get out of low mmr.

submitted by /u/Nathanial37
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(Sorry but I don't know where else to post this) Am I the only one who can't edit his flair in this subreddit?

Posted: 02 May 2017 11:22 AM PDT

It just shows the list of the hero flairs, but when I click on the one I want nothing happens.

submitted by /u/StfuAndPlayDota
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How to set up micro for Broodmother

Posted: 02 May 2017 01:55 PM PDT

I have tried setting this up in a lobby but still not quite sure how this works?

I want my control groups to be:

  1. All other units
  2. Spirderlings
  3. Spiderites

The issue I have is, how do I make the control group work for the unit-type? So that when I spawn new spiderlings with my Q, it auto adds them to the "2" control group?

Secondly, how can I create another control group that allows me to scout with spiders? Do I have to add to new control group each time?

submitted by /u/elitz
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Up to Date Guides

Posted: 02 May 2017 04:37 AM PDT

Hey guys. I'm not able to find up to date guides for something like " How to Support" or "How to Offlane". Can you help me to find those?

submitted by /u/EsIstRolf
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Need help with item builds and powercurves

Posted: 02 May 2017 09:34 AM PDT

How can i learn hero powercurves. I was talking to some 5k+ players who were saying that before the game even starts just looking at the draft they will already know what time the game needs to end for them to win and how they base their items builds and timings around the powercurves of the heroes on their team and the other team. I understand the basic laning ones, such as Shadow Fiend at lvl 3,5 and 7 and most heroes reaching level 6 etc. But how can I learn the powercurves and item timings for every hero and use that knowledge to know when to push, Rosh and when to defend and just farm???

submitted by /u/RayJay97
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Some questions from begginer

Posted: 02 May 2017 01:01 PM PDT

Hello! I am a kind of new player, i have about 200 hours in dota but big part of it is watching the international games (ti4, ti5, ti6)
i played 110 games, but i cant say i know anything about the game
i googled the basics, i kind of got a grasp on how dota works, but i have some questions about the game
1. I read in a guide about how a normal team composition looks like, from what I've seen in pro games it's like there is a carry, mid laner, off laner and two supports or something along the lines. Anyways, when I'm playing on my own, the games definitely don't look like that, i just finished a game, where my team was Chaos Knight, Anti Mage, Templar Assasin, Legion Commander, Disruptor
So the question is, do low mmr ranked games (i reaaaly want to play them) look the same? I mean, do people really pick whatever they want, dont care about how many carries we already have and so on?
2. Should I feel bad when i queue for my first ranked and lose the game for my team? I mean, I will lose some games before I get matched with equally bad opponents, but knowing that I lose not only game for myself, but also 4 other people, makes me not want to queue.
3. I know there should be like 2 supports in each team, I really really like to play Crystal Maiden, so I guess I'll main support, but I always struggle with what lane should I go with her. Could you please tell me where are supports usually going?
4. I played one game as Anti Mage, farmed all the time, got to some items and started fighting, but enemy team had Sniper, and I couldn't do anything to him, he stayed so far away, and spammed me with basic attacks, they ministunned me and slowed because he bought eye of skadi, I could only run, because I was almost frozen in place, what should I do in that situation? I couldn't blink to him, because he just used shadow blade and ran away, whaaat to doooo? ;p;

submitted by /u/arturekczek
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Lifesteal on skywrath?

Posted: 02 May 2017 11:36 AM PDT

In my last game I started out playing support but my team asked me to start building for nukes after. At first I got mana boots, a wand, bottle and an urn, but I had pretty good farm so I got an aghs, then an aether lens. Once that was done, I got a linken's then I wasn't sure what to buy so I started to build satanic. I built morbid mask first and I noticed it really helped. Is it possible to go full on with a damage build for skywrath?

submitted by /u/allyjbelle
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Can you guys give me some tips on how to play Windrunner in the offlane against a tri [3.8k]?

Posted: 02 May 2017 07:37 AM PDT

As mentioned in topic title. I would like to have some tips on Windrunner against tri lanes.
I have been playing Offlane for as long as I can remember. Here are things I already know so that I am not given advice that I do not need. Do not take it the wrong way.

Things I already know about Offlane

  • Tris are not suppose to be won outright. Your goals as Offlaner are to a] leech exp b] get as many last hits c] keep supports stuck to the safelane which would inevitably let your teammates have easier lanes in safe and middle lane and d]come out ahead exp wise. The c] part should be that your teammates win other lanes for you but this is not always the case. I would like to pull my own weight and contribute because 60-70% the time, my safe or mid fails because of inferior picks, aka, picking whatever they felt like. This is why I made this topic cause I believe some kind of range hero with good skill sets can do a lot against tris. I think WR against a tri would be effective. You have evasion, stun and powershot to last hit. You can contribute to team fights early without needing a blink or any other core item. You can also scale well into the late game.
  • Where to ward. Which type of ward [defensive or offensive]
  • Any other general offlane knowledge.
submitted by /u/PM_ME_YR_PUFFYNIPS
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Anyone want to play with me?

Posted: 02 May 2017 11:16 AM PDT

Trying to learn the game, transfered from LoL (around 2 weeks ago), i got the moba and dota bases but im still learning a lot and still kind of suck at dota.

All my friends play League and dont like dota, so i have to play alone and playing with someone helps a lot to learn the game.

So anyome up to play with me and give me a few tips?
Ty :)

Region: Us West or East

submitted by /u/AffluentWeevil1
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How is DP not OP?

Posted: 02 May 2017 07:00 AM PDT

She has a nuke with good range. She has an AoE silence. She has an ability that has no cooldown and low mana cost that drains HP and slows the enemy and she has an ultimate that allows her to push down towers easily. How is she not OP and how is she countered and don't say "Just stun and kill her" because that's nonsense in a game that has other valuable teamfight targets.

submitted by /u/Furkman53
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How to build Sven?

Posted: 02 May 2017 06:41 AM PDT

"small sidenote im not a big fan of the Chinese Sven build consisting of MOM into SNY"

( From Khezzu post-Kiev TwitLonger)

Now, it turns out, this is also the 7.05 TorteDeLini build. And, I've played it a few times, and it just makes sense. Being able to use god's strength, blink in, stun someone, and then hit them at +125 attack speed is great. MoM, SnY, and Blink work really well with Sven's abilities.

But... if Khezzu doesn't like it... how are we supposed to build Sven?

submitted by /u/lookseedooso
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when do you buy euls and should it use as a defensive rather than offensive item?

Posted: 02 May 2017 06:25 AM PDT

i confused when to buy this item because it has offensive and defensive capabilities, what factors should you consider when buying this item? i noticed that this item is bought when opposing lineup has lot of DOTs, is that one of the reason?

is there any chance euls were bought for initiating purposes this days? the only offensive usage of this item i can think of is to proc enemy's linkens.

submitted by /u/padelno91
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Logically I know the trench doesn't exist, but it certainly feels like it.

Posted: 02 May 2017 01:18 AM PDT

I played a lot of ranked doto in the era of 6.80-85, and got to something like 3.6k mmr by playing the supports I was good at, and the cores I was good at. I took a break for a long time, until about 7.00. I started playing again cause I was excited about the new patch and I've now tanked all the way to 2.8k and now feel really stuck.

I realized I didn't really know what I was doing so I decided to "get good" and took some advice from 5k friends, some of which was to get really good at certain heroes instead of trying to be a jack of all trades, so I started spamming jakiro lion and venge in solo ranked. It seems really good on the games I win, it seems like shit in the games I lose.

I also have been consuming a ton of content from this subreddit as well as Purge's series of coaching day[9], but I saw a few days ago that Sean is basically at my current mmr. It feels like crap cause I love this game and I've got nearly 4 thousand hours in only the past 5 years, but I've already been matched by someone who doesn't even know what all the heroes do.

I guess the biggest frustration is that it genuinely feels like I'm improving, but I'm just not getting lucky with my solo ranked matches. My picture of what "the first 10 minutes should look like" has massively improved since I started playing dota again, but I have not seen my mmr appreciably climb. Then I have games where my first ten minutes go perfectly and someone just throws the advantage I gave them away.

I dunno. This is partly to vent but also partly seeking advice. Anyone had this happen to them? where they drop a shitload of mmr and can't really get it back? I'd also look for advice on how to improve supporting in this bracket. It can be really frustrating and I honestly have no idea how I was at 3.6k before, but I was there for a long time.

Dotabuff: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/58415480

submitted by /u/Kinetik_Inferno
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Dota 2 Pro Info not getting displayed in Team Ranked matches. Any suggestions why?

Posted: 02 May 2017 08:26 AM PDT

I have been playing as a team and I have set up my pro info which should display the team tag along with the name. But, when we find Team Ranked matches, the pro info is not getting displayed, rather the normal steam name is getting displayed for every player. Why is that so? But, flags and logo everything works like it should be. How can I get it to display the pro info? Thanks,

submitted by /u/xxfalcon69
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