Learn Dota 2 - Strategy Discussion - Breaking High Ground


Strategy Discussion - Breaking High Ground

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 11:11 AM PDT

Hey guys. We haven't had a new discussion thread in a while. Since we're doing collaboration Hero discussions, I figured I would resurrect some old discussion topics way back from ~2015.

I will be recycling the topics in that link above. If you guys have other topic suggestions, please let me know and I'll take note of it if it has enough supporters.


Breaking High Ground

You're ahead - the game isn't a stomp, but you have a comfortable lead in kills and enemy towers are falling. You finish polishing up the enemy T2s, and now you're faced with a decision - when do you go for high ground?

Breaking high ground is by arguably the biggest milestone towards winning the game other than taking the ancient itself. Each lane of barracks that you destroy gives you a significant ongoing advantage for the rest of the game - that lane will constantly push in your favour, and the enemy team will gain less gold and XP from their attempts to push it back.

However, it's also a considerable danger - taking a fight on the enemy high ground offers them a significant advantage, and one or two failed high ground teamfights can easily put your opponents back into contention. Picking your moment is critical.

  • What is the best way to approach taking high ground?

  • What factors should you take into account when deciding when and whether to try for it?

  • Are there any heroes or items that are particularly well suited to breaking high ground?

submitted by /u/Pressthepig
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Is Troll Warlord viable?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 03:38 PM PDT

"Junglers lose games"

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 05:21 AM PDT

I have heard and seen this said almost off-handedly multiple times in this subreddit as well as with higher tier players. I would like to understand what exactly this means and why it is the case.

Is it just the dreaded afk jungle farmer that is the problem?

For context, I'm 2.4k MMR and play almost exclusively support or offlane/jungle. My favorite hero is Axe by a longshot, and I have just shy of a 70% winrate with him.

Often, at my level, there is a dual offlane bullying our safelane, so I can help alleviate some of that pressure by popping into safelane and ganking with call. If I see offlane being pressured, i will jungle up through the offlane camps and then gank there. Depending on how well the ganks go, I will get blink dagger between 9 and 12 minutes (at the latest), and then the fun starts.

Is this a style of play that will be punished at higher levels? What should I be doing differently?? Thanks for any help!

submitted by /u/KaiserRoth
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Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 02:18 PM PDT

dotabuff opendota

I started to play dota2 4 years ago. I play pretty much only support role in every matches. When I had ~1000 matches, I started to play my calibration games and got 2.7k. I climbed to 3k and dropped to 2.5k and I think it will decreasing.

The problem I'm facing is I always have very low net worth. I know because I compare it to the enemy in similar position. In almost every game (BOTH WIN AND LOSE) I have the lowest net worth and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Every game I feel like I have zero impact to the game (maybe landing a good skill sometime but that's everybody can do). I think this problem is the main reason why my MMR is dropping.

Today I've reach the lowest MMR, so I think this is a time to get some help.

(sorry my bad english not a native speaker)

submitted by /u/golfyoohoo
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Haven't played or watched dota since 6.88, what have I missed?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 07:16 AM PDT

How has the pro meta changed? Which heroes are meta now? What are the pull and stack times of new camps? New ward spots? Which talents should I go?

The 7.00 update changed the game so much I don't know where to begin, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

submitted by /u/grapeintensity
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New to Dota looking to try it out, i am from league looking for heroes that play similarly to Gangplank or Fiora

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 07:52 PM PDT

Hi i think of trying dota because it's been like 6 years since i played dota (warcraft one) and now im looking to try it again i've been wondering if there is a hero who plays similarly to gangplank or fiora, i usually play top lane

ill describe what both champs do

Gangplank

  • Among the weakest early game champs that gets bullied alot
  • Strongest during mid - late game
  • AOE crit bursts that do a sht ton of damage in a short cooldown
  • great splitpusher
  • global ultimate for global pressure
  • Oranges *its a % missing hp heal that also cleanses crowd control eg: stuns, knockups, etc
  • high skill cap high skill floor
  • godly teamfight if played well
  • can oneshot an adc with just one ability

Fiora

  • Among the best 1v1 champ in the game
  • has a parry that can BLOCK anything except for turret shots also stuns the enemies if u parry hard crowd control
  • best late game splitpusher
  • can 1v2 easily
  • give 1 kill to her = u done goofed
  • weak teamfight
  • high skillcap but low skillfloor

anyways thats all im gonna say, i want to try out dota 2 because dota (warcraft 3 one) is my first ever moba and looking to see what changed also if this helps i used to only play anti mage back in the dota days

EDIT: Fiora parry can actually block autoattacks too literally everything except for turret shots

EDIT2: Both are melee champs, but gangplank has is like an ad caster that does aoe crit bursts

submitted by /u/galangj012
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Why is Lina being picked so much in DAC 2017? Why is she so strong? Is she viable as a support?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 03:50 PM PDT

Hello guys, I like lina, and I saw her 70% winrate at DAC. Putting those two together, I started to play Lina as a support. Unfortunately I may not be as good as I thought and I dropped 150 mmr in a day. While fun and I'm getting better at landing my stun, I reread the stats and she's mainly played as a carry. Is this because she's very greedy, or do I simply need to improve on this hero? Any info would be great on how she works in the current meta.

submitted by /u/TechieTubbies
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Axe+Pudge counter?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 06:15 PM PDT

90% of the games I play, ranked low 2k, have an axe, and or a pudge. It's getting annoying as shit losing to that combo all the time. I try to pick heroes that I can kite axe with like drow/viper, or something like LS+bm... but it's only effective sometimes. I know one key is controlling the map with vision but when they get ahead, they shut that down fast and we're helpless. Do we just have to shut them down early? What are some other heroes/items to counter axe/pudge?

submitted by /u/ply0
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Are Arcane Boots overrated?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 06:15 PM PDT

An awful lot of mana dependent supports seem to get Arcanes, but they almost always feel underwhelming. Here's my thinking:

  • They cost 900. The opportunity costs is a bracer + windlace (working on a drums?), 90% of a Staff of Wizardry (working on force staff or euls), a Buckler (working on a Mek). Basically a Medallion. An absolute shitload of mangoes and clarities. I know what I love to see a support using in a mid-game team-fight, and it's not Arcanes.

  • A lot of int supports have more mana than they can use in a lifetime, especially before they have a Eul's or Force Staff to avoid getting focused. Yes, they can work on positioning. They can also work on mana management.

  • Shrines and raindrops make the sustain a lot less important. Unless you've got someone like Wraith King who loves a bit of free mana in a pinch, you're spending an awful lot of gold on a larger manna pool and some sustain - and the sustain is no longer as needed.

  • They're pointless in the late game, as everyone will have plenty of mana.

  • They hurt the early game, due to the build-up.

  • They're OK in the mid game, I guess. They are very nice in the early mid game, but they delay your later items.

  • Obviously they're great if you use them with Soul Ring, but that's a very expensive combo.

I'm not saying they're useless items. Situationally they're good, and in some builds they're very good, but I just don't see why they're built on virtually every int support.

submitted by /u/wisty
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Stacking

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 07:16 AM PDT

Does stacking have a massive impact, because I could easily stack camps for my carry, but I fear if I do this constantly my lane may suffer. I do try to remember to stack for example on my way back to base anyway, or if I'm rotating to help or gank another lane, but should I leave lane to stack a lot?

I have done this to the ancients in a venge game when we had a tide hunter mid, the carry died once or twice but tide hunter's farm was really good, as he had like a quadruple stack by minute 10. Got a really early radiance which gave us immense teamfight capability early, as they could not hit us as easily and were burned a lot.

submitted by /u/pyrocyre
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On Centaur what is your opinion on getting Vanguard before Blink?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 08:47 AM PDT

Is this viable? Like how Tide can get Mek before going for Blink?

Thanks.

submitted by /u/manufacturingcontent
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What has happened to Sven?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 01:15 PM PDT

I hardly see Sven picked in my pub games, and I can't remember the last time he was drafted in a pro game. Why?

submitted by /u/nooby1234
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I made it to 2k from 800mmr and did so enjoying myself.

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 04:48 PM PDT

Hey folks,

Ok so thank you /learndota2 for your help, I'm getting there and will keep using this reddit to help improve my game, checking posts, watching replays etc

My question is what to look out for because I understand changing brackets can be challenging and people often "yo-yo" mmr around each "k". Any notable differences between sub-2k and 2k-3k?

Here's my Dotabuff! I'm pretty chuffed with it at a 56% wr even after completing my all hero challenge :)

https://www.dotabuff.com/players/239910585

P.S. Please note I USED to be a PA spammer waaaay back in the day, now it's like, odd bursts of 2-3 games maybe at the most, since doing my all hero challenge I try to stay diverse in what's needed for the team.

submitted by /u/TrevelyanChuckles
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Dagon on Bloodseeker

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 10:44 AM PDT

I was just wondering if other people had seen this build recently, or if it came out of a meme somewhere. I ran into this excruciating annoying build last night for the first time, but I saw it in several games.

Basically, BS jungles up a Dagon and Shadow Blade and then just cruises our jungle with Rupture/BloodRite/Dagon. The combo was easily killing our strength heroes down from full health. Particularly bad was the Lycan who would always suffer at least a little Rupture damage in Shapeshift mode before coming to full stop, only to be Rited and Dagoned on the spot.

submitted by /u/Chunks77
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Tbh, one thing that I hate learning about this game is attack ranges.

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 04:04 PM PDT

This is partly venting, partly asking how to remember them. This is one reason I tend to stick to the same heroes so I have a very good feel of their attack range. When I try a new hero, and the range is shorter or longer, I get disoriented. It's really my least favorite part of the game.

How do I remember these ranges, exactly? Is it just one of those things where you have to play for a long time and get a feel for them? I've played for probably around 2000 hours over the past couple years and this is still tripping me up.

submitted by /u/-methane-
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Hi guys. I making a custom game for training skills.

Posted: 28 Mar 2017 11:54 PM PDT

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=813598504 Now available only manta training, but im working on new modes. I need your opinion about it.

submitted by /u/combine420
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What's your item build on Phantom Lancer?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 03:27 PM PDT

I usually get boots -> aquila -> diffusal -> aghs Thats when I get lost. I'm at midgame now and can farm like crazy. But I feel like my damage in teamfights is super underwhelming. I've experimented with Skadi next, MKB, Daedalus, Manta, etc. What do you guys get? 3.3kMMR

submitted by /u/BoHorvat53
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Is HotD still viable for carry Venge? What are some ways for her to sustain health/mana? What are also some tips for a new Venge player?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 05:25 AM PDT

I just played 2 games on her and it was a stomp, so I don't know if I played her well. My item progression goes from Aquila > Blight stone > Treads > Shadow Blade > Dragon Lance/Pike > I'm lost at this part, honestly. Do I need to get Silver Edge? Build Manta? Build Deso?

I build HotD after Shadow Blade because my health goes medium alot. Is it still viable? At this point, my creeps often dies/I just let it follow me whilst not really controlling it(I often pick Wolf, but I also pick Centaur and it dies quickly in teamfight without even landing a stun.)

Also, for mana management. What are some tips that you can give me to sustain it?

Lastly, what are some tips you can give for a new carry venge player?

(I'm at 3.8k bracket, btw.)

submitted by /u/zdc21
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Adding items to the quick buy list

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 10:58 AM PDT

1) I don't know if that is the right term. I know if you shift+left click an item in the shop, it will list all the components you are missing so you can buy them easily. However, there are many times that I would like to be able to put, say, quelling blade + ring of health + brown boots as anti-mage or something like that. I will get all these items, but they aren't all part of one item. Is there a way to have it not clear out all the items when I add another item to the quick buy list?

2) Also, an addition random question. I have only 6 stars worth of quests left to do in my winter battle pass. What am I supposed to do when I have completed all the quests with 3 stars (if I even do)? I added it up and the quests only add 18000 battle points if you 3 star all of them (as well as another 2000 for the two achievements you would complete for getting 1 star and 3 stars in all quests). That is only 20 battle pass level increases! Do the rest of the battle points really have to come from weekly quests / daily quests / wagering? I am quite new to Dota 2 - especially the battle pass - so I don't really know how it all works. I saw a guy at level 70 battle pass and I have no idea how they did it. It would be awesome to get some more rewards before it expires!

TL;DR

  • How do I add items to the quick buy list without clearing out the current ones (EX: add brown boots and ring of health to it so I can buy them quickly at the side shop).

  • What do I do to level my battle pass quickly after all the quests are complete?

Thanks!

submitted by /u/CptnSAUS
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Building Shadow Fiend in 7.00 (When to Buy What Extension Items)

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 10:50 AM PDT

Hey guys. I used to play a lot of SF before 7.00. I was bad back then, so I just blindly followed guides and didn't understand SF's needs beyond laning (still don't know them 100% yet). I would basically build bottle, aquila, treads, dragon lance, shadow blade, BKB & that was about it core-wise. My extension was a random combination between Butterfly, Desolator, Daedalus, or Satanic (no thought went into the choices). I heard from some other thread on here that they changed how ranged agility carries are built now, and I don't know what the changes were.

Basically, I'm not 100% sure what SF's needs are (and what would meet them) or what would maximize the effectiveness of his abilities. I can follow guides all I want and build optimally, but I won't learn why I build what late game carry items. Honestly, the cores I mentioned before are standard:

  • Aquila = stats, mana regen, armor
  • Treads = attack speed, stats, are boots
  • Bottle = regen, runes
  • Dragon Lance = stats, range
  • Shadow Blade = attack speed, attack damage, escape & initiation utility
  • BKB = magic immunity, damage, health

However, I don't know what to choose after that (also whether I can skip SB or BKB for other items). I know that SF wants a lot of stats (as shown in the cores I mentioned), but I don't know when to prioritize Butterfly over Daedalus, when to not pick up Deso, when to build Satanic or Skadi, and when to sell Treads for TP Boots or when to sell bottle.

Knowing why certain extension items are chosen would really help me understand carries more as it's something I'm having trouble with. I do have my own ideas about extension items and know about all their actives, passives, and stats, but I'd like some help from those more knowledgeable about them. Thanks.

submitted by /u/Liamrun
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I just had one of the most insane games yesterday, and need some help with my laning phase and decision making later on. (Game was way too close for my taste)

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 08:47 AM PDT

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3083873306

I was the juggernaut. I had a very rough and pressured laning stage, and couldn't find a way to snowball and stay ahead in this game. How could have we salvaged the laning phase more?

Also in such a game, how do we plan out our late game? We were mostly clueless, and won more because of enemy making mistakes, than we playing better

submitted by /u/You_NeverKnow
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Anyone able to give me an in depth understanding of Troll Warlord?

Posted: 28 Mar 2017 10:53 PM PDT

I really like his kit and the idea of right click man fighting but I don't much about him. What are his core items? What do you max first? When do you want to start joining fights? When are his power spikes? etc etc

submitted by /u/venomlove
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How to use silencer and when to pick him?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 07:29 AM PDT

I am starting to like this hero because of his passives that can permanently steals intelligent and I am not a good mid laner but I always go safe lane than offlane I need your advice so I can git gud

Thanks!

submitted by /u/DeadInvoke
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How do the ranked calibration games evaluate where to place you?

Posted: 29 Mar 2017 01:12 AM PDT

Mostly the title. I have a tremendous amount of moba experience, over 10,000 games played across multiple mobas including dota back on wc3. I recently picked up (and have been relearning) dota 2.

I am now 6-0 in my placement matches. I am being matched with ~2900 players, and the games are fairly stompy honestly. Pick a carry, abuse the fact that I farm better than most players at this mmr, win game. What confuses me and prompted this post however is that the mmr I am being matched with has not gone up, and my estimated mmr on opendota (with a 75-80% winrate in the last ~30 games) has gone down!

I found a post from a few years ago suggesting that KDA and farm, so in game performance stats, affect the calibration. Can anyone confirm this, or speak to why it feels like the calibration is not moving my mmr?

My opendota / dotabuff profiles, if they are any help:

https://www.opendota.com/players/101599492

https://www.dotabuff.com/players/101599492

EDIT: Finished games, final records was 9-1. 3057 mmr.

submitted by /u/Imoa
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