Unlabelled True Dota 2 - drows gust talent is bugged?

11/04/2017 06:25:00 am
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True Dota 2 - drows gust talent is bugged?

drows gust talent is bugged?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 08:42 AM PDT

it supposedly adds 1.5 dust duration, maybe thats just for the knockback? It doesn't increase the knockback duration number so its hard to tell, it definitely doesn't increase the silence duration, you should be able to perma silence people with it combined with the 50% cooldown talent but there is a .5 period before you can silence someone again.

Am i just misunderstanding what the talent does?

submitted by /u/-VwO-
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Offlane Centaur is whats up

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 12:14 PM PDT

Granted this is 3.5k potato bracket but I've been doing work. His laning does blow early on but just play safe til you get your ulty. Van -> Crimson or pipe depending their cores -> blademail -> Vlads -> AC or heart. Your purpose is to keep your droolers alive. You make em survive they can win teamfights and you also have your global to save people across the map. Small sample size so far 9-1 but feels good and for some reason people every game have attacked the Centaur. Why I do not know but I suspect droolers just go for the biggest thing they can click on. Also you get that lvl 25 return aura I don't see how you can lose. 10/10 would offlane Centaur again.

submitted by /u/DrinkBeerWinPrizes
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Kaya on Storm Spirit?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 12:42 PM PDT

Thoughts on the item and where/if it fits in the buildup?

Have seen it be pretty split among pros/spammers. When I build it, it definitely feels value, but it also definitely delays when you can join fights and limits pickoff options. So mainly build it when your team has better late game?

Also, does Kaya reduce the total mana cost of ball lightning or just the activation cost (like arcane rune)?

submitted by /u/Balthor5000
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Compiled a comparison list of all Talent Changes from 7.06 to 7.07.

Posted: 02 Nov 2017 10:08 PM PDT

EDIT: > My bad. Fixed the permissions issue.

I recently painstaking and manually compiled a list of all the talent changes from 7.06 and 7.07 - mostly painstaking because the Dota 2 wiki is terrible and never keeps things correct or formatted right.

The sheet is currently accessible Here.

Sheet also contains a list of all the hero attributes (Major thanks to the Dota 2 wiki for this one though, it's always been pretty good and hard to get anywhere else) as well as a list of team roles a hero was primarily drafted for. (mostly in retrospect to competitive play, though some are also drawn from standard pub roles - such as lion since he never even appeared at TI). Roles for Dark Willow & Pangolier are ?s since they're new and untested and aren't in CM anyway.

Please forgive any major formatting issues, it's mostly google sheets screwing with my previous excel format.

Let me know if anything is wrong.

Also please ignore the support rating for sniper, it's a meme of mine which i try to run (IT WILL WORK ONE DAY).

submitted by /u/Geffoo
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Two gimmicky Aeon Disk carriers

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 07:54 AM PDT

Techies

Blast Off is an amazing initiation, but often leaves Techies extremely vulnerable. With an Aeon Disk, Techies is nearly guaranteed 2.5 seconds to re-position while invulnerable after Blast Off initiation!

It activates only on enemy damage, not Blast Off damage, so Blast Off will still damage enemies. Additionally, the Mines are not Techies, so the 0% outgoing damage does not affect them!! The 2.5 seconds gives you time to either escape or set up a Stasis Trap.

If combined with a Eul's Scepter of Divinity and a Blink Dagger, one can reliably get the Blink off (2.5 seconds of invulnerability due to Aeon, 2.5 due to Euls, so 5 seconds total, which is enough for Blink). All in all, consider getting Aeon on Techies later in the game for teamfights!

Underlord

Eul's Scepter of Divinity is a great pickup on Underlord due to the mana regen, movespeed, 2.5 second disable for Pit of Malice chaining, and 2.5 seconds of invulnerability for easier Dark Rift escapes. An Aeon Disk ups this Dark Rift escape window to 5 seconds, longer than the 4 seconds it takes to leave with a level 3 Dark Rift! Combined with the automatic activation and the dispel, Aeon disk makes it very hard to stop him leaving with Dark Rift.

As an aside, how does one share the new hero build thing on reddit? Is it possible to post, say, a link to your build?

submitted by /u/TheGreatGimmick
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How do you push when your team won't come through?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 01:38 PM PDT

This question was asked in a thread made by a 3k looking to get to 4k. My MMR is pretty low, and I experience the same thing.

Often, we win a huge teamfight, then... everyone scatters into the jungle or something while I'm going "Guys! Push, push, we should take advantage of this!"

What does one do in this situation? If there are 2 of them left, and no one on my team is pushing, I'll get killed if I try to solo push.

submitted by /u/AmagicalFishy
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7.07 Pull & Stack Timings?

Posted: 02 Nov 2017 11:39 PM PDT

Anyone has the image for people who havn't gotten the chance to play yet but like to know.

submitted by /u/Beemeowmeow
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Terrorblade 7.07 discussion

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 04:16 PM PDT

What are the big changes that affected him this patch ?

I had a look at the new items and most of them are just buffs for magic caster especially that Aeon disk acting like a smaller Shallow Grave which breaks a lot of heroes with burst dmg potential seems like a bad news for heroes like CK or TB when they really need to stick to their targets to deal dmg .

However the +300 range atk seems sweet but i wonder if he's still good now because the loss of stats and the rise of magic casters.

submitted by /u/ShingetsuSSS
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With the new changes to Axe, could this Position 1 Carry build be viable?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 04:13 PM PDT

Link to conceptual guide: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1190436558

Axe is my best hero. A lot of games, pretty damn high win rate. I feel like he got buffed significantly and I will be building echo sabre almost every game.

With these new changes, could this build be viable for pos 1 carry?

What are your thoughts?

submitted by /u/anoori9000
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How do I play Treant Protector in 7.07?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 03:49 PM PDT

I played this hero quite a bit in the 2k bracket, with fairly good success. I would play him as a 4/5, buying courier and trying to always place good wards. I would try to bully a lane early while saving the other retards on my team with living armor whenever possible.

I would usually build arcanes and then midas. At lvl 15 I would always take the +90 gold per minute.

Once I got some gold, I would usually build whatever aura I felt would be most helpful: either greaves, vlads, or a pipe. Sometimes I would build aghs if I thought the game was likely to go later.

Anyway, I feel like the hero was very dependent on that +90 gold. Without that, it seems unlikely that I'll ever have enough gold to build an aghs.

Any tips or suggestions? With the new talents, I'm not sure how I would play this hero, other than as a broke-ass position 5. Is that the only way to play him now?

submitted by /u/Embargo4life
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How To Gank Mid This Patch: Personal Thoughts

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 03:38 PM PDT

Because of various changes to the XP granted for denies and how you cannot stack+pull at the same time on safelane hard camps, more resources are going to be put into the safelane. This should probably alleviate the "dual mid" meta right?

Nah, after playing a few matches mid, mid is still a ganking shitshow. For the people who are too lazy to read on, the bottom line is that aggression is far easier to punish while defensive posturing and diving for a gank is really really hard compared to 7.06.

Let's start with the changes to midlane.

1) Shift in dire tower to the left side of the lane, allowing for ganks from the bottom rune.

2) Shrines are further away from the midlane.

3) (personal feel) midlane feels wider and longer than before

4) a free tp for everyone at game start allows people to go to mid sooner to gank instead of walking around the map to do it as position 4's would usually do before

All these favor more sit back and farming/defensive mids. Shadow Fiend, Storm Spirit, and so on. Aggressive lane dominators who want to dive for kills like TA, Windrunner, Lina can actually get punished very hard in the early levels. The farmers can just shove the wave and go into jungle and come back. The aggressive laners may not necessarily have that luxury and are more susceptible to ganks/

Why? Well here's my argument:

With shrines further apart, mids don't want to try and trade favorably or get a kill on the enemy midlaner without assistance. This is because if a kill results in the midlaner being low, he will have to walk further to his shrine to heal and come back. Because he is also the aggressor, he will probably have his creep wave push as well because he's tanking some enemy creeps to try and dive under the enemy tower. The dead enemy will TP back to lane and get back 1.5 waves he probably otherwise wouldnt while you're healing.

Aggression and solo kills are basically not worth a lot because of potential rotations and time lost from actually killing them.

Because the lane feels longer (I actually have no proof of this one), it takes longer to get back to your tower from the enemy's high ground. This means that punishing people who are trying to dive your midlaner is so much easier as the diver will have a longer time getting back to his tower. This affects both sides.

In some cases, walking into that downhill river is almost always death since it allows enemies to approach from behind you whereas before, that river was smaller so you would most likely get some vision from a ranged creep standing ontop of your hill, even if the creep waves were equal.

How To Actually Gank Mid

Ok, so maybe you want to still try and kill the enemy midlaner and you want to figure out a few routes you can take? At this point, you can come from any of the 4 directions (radiant top, dire top, radiant bottom, dire bottom) whereas before coming from the dire bot is impossible because of the alignment of dire's mid tower in 7.06.

Because of the alignment of the creeps and towers, Radiant mid will want to hook in from the right side when approaching the Dire tower. This is because if you draw a line from the Radiant tower to the Dire tower, it points towards the top of the map. Since people are usually right handed, they will come from the right side most of the time.

To show I am not full of shit, look at these 2 games:

Attacker Kunkka Mid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1z5drQMbCM

Miracle Storm Spirit Mid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdEvZGa8Xx8

When both these heros approach the Dire tower to push, they come from the right side. Sure, you can point to a few times where Miracle comes from the left but primarily that's just to juggle aggro to his side.

Therefore, to gank a radiant mid hero, come from the right side of the map for the highest success. Hell, if a radiant mid hero is hanging on the right and you try coming in from their left side ancients, you are going to be seen and the mid can react, even if the radiant mid is at the foot of the dire's hill.

On the Dire side, my movements STILL gravitate towards the right of the lane, not really to the left or right. I don't know why this is either and I don't have a lengthy explanation. In practicality, this is actually really bad because it is the furthest away from my dire tower. Maybe force of habit from where the tower used to be?

Then again, I'm fairly certain that if that is the reason why, other people are still doing it.

Therefore to gank a dire mid hero, you can come at almost any direction because their right side positioning is still tied to the old tower location and is the furthest away from their tower.

I really think Dire got the short end of the stick here from the tower changes. Maybe people will get used to it in time but I still believe the natural inclination will be to hug the right side of the lane, if not the center, instead of the left.

Hope this helps in making my life a living fucking hell. Let me know your thoughts.

-A mid player

submitted by /u/bewilderment_
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Did Lich get over nerfed?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 09:38 AM PDT

Not directly, though less slow on ice armor early hurts. But the real reason Lich was picked last patch was for Sacrifice, no other hero could control turn a lane by denying so much XP to the enemy.

But with denies giving far less experience away, as well as ranged creeps not carrying a large amount of wave XP, this isn't unique to Lich anymore. Any support denying will accomplish what a Lich does for the most part, and he received no buffs in place of this. Wouldn't you take any lane dominating hero over Lich now as they can provide the denied experience along with the rest of their kit?

I predict Lich will be about as bottom of the barrel as far as heroes go this patch. Am I overthinking this or does this hero not do very much anymore?

submitted by /u/fibittydoo
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Question regarding maxing blink on AM first

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 06:42 AM PDT

I wonder why people level up blink first instead of mana break. I understand you don't want to keep it at level 1,but I think getting max level on mana break is better because you don't have fury at that point and 4 sec cd on blink isn't tha useful, whereas having a 4 lvl mana break helps farming faster and harassing even better (4-3-1-1 build) . I understand that at 11-12 mind you already have started a little bit of jingling just to get the last component of fury, but still you don't have the ability to farm the camp that fast and so the blink will be off cd anyways. Any thoughts?

submitted by /u/The_7oker
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How's lion this patch?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 05:14 AM PDT

I like him but I never think it's a good lion game, he's not a strong laner and not a great roamer, and struggles to push the wave until 15, as trade off he scales well in to late game.

I'm no OSfrog but I still think he needs some buffs, either move speed and/or mana drain buff for roaming or base damage for laning, what's your take on him?

submitted by /u/Gate_a
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My take on the changes to Visage in 7.07

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 01:54 AM PDT

Visage was seeing play as a core and boasted one of the highest winrates of any hero in high level play when played in that role. A substantial nerf was inevitable and that's what we saw, but the implications of the changes between 7.06d and 7.07 aren't really easily seen without some analysis. This is going to get a little spreadsheet intensive but I'll try and keep conclusions as descriptive of what's going on as possible. There are a lot of disparate changes which effect this hero and viewing them all together is not necessarily straightforward.

Familiar changes

This is by far the most significant change to the hero this patch and is one of the more difficult changes to really understand.

The familiar attack time without the grave chill buff is 0.4 seconds.

With the grave chill buff which in 7.07 can be shared with familiars in 900 AOE of Visage the familiar attack time is 0.24 seconds. So assuming you make use of that buff here is the damage of a single familiar in terms of time spent attacking a target.

Time 7.06 lvl 1 7.06 lvl 2 7.06 lvl 3
0.4 66 122 178
0.8 124 228 332
1.2 174 318 462
1.6 216 392 568
2 250 450 650
2.4 276 492 708
2.8 294 518 742
Time 7.07 lvl 1 7.07 lvl 2 7.07 lvl 3
0.24 25 40 55
0.48 50 80 110
0.72 75 120 165
0.96 100 160 220
1.2 125 200 275
1.44 150 240 330
1.68 175 280 385
1.92 200 320 440
2.16 225 360 495
2.4 250 400 550
2.64 275 440 605
2.88 300 480 660

So from this rough perspective we can already start to see some things. After 2.8 seconds or 7 attacks in 7.06, where previously we would have dumped the entirety of our damage, now with the grave chill buff we can see that we'd get approximately 12 attack in. As well from the perspective of raw damage numbers in that period we see what I think we could have suspected. Lvl 1 familiar damage is similar but the damage in general scales worse with later levels.

Now to put these two spreadsheets together in a way that more accurately highlights the damage at various times between the two patches.

Graphs are easier than spreadsheets right?

Based on this we can say that at lvl 1 our damage is actually pretty comparable to the old damage, and then we can see some of the most extreme nerfs to scaling I think any hero has ever gotten. With lvl 3 familiars it takes 2 seconds to get the damage we got before in less than one. I think it's safe to say these changes remove a lot of the potential of Visage snowballing.

Talent Tree Changes

I posted them above but I'll link them again here just for reference.

7.06d

7.07

Previously Visage's lvl 10 30% xp gain talent would allow him to snowball with a midas from sheer xp gain and alternatively the early gpm would allow him to get early items far more quickly than their farm would otherwise allow. The 50 damage talent at 15 as well was a pretty common pick up which coupled with grave chill attack speed could make his rightclick combined with minus armor into a significant portion of the heroes damage when combined with familiars. Beyond that the health at lvl 20 was a common pickup extending his tankiness though I've also seen a few instances of the double strike and then almost always that's followed with familiar movement speed at 25 though I recall WhiteGlint, the top ranking Visage player on dotabuff, would toy around with spell amp and a cheesy dagon eblade build using cast range that build was never really seen elsewhere. A solid talent tree was one of the fundamental factors which lead to Visage scaling well into the late game.

The new talent tree while not weak brings with it some major nerfs to scaling.

Lvl 10 none of his talents allow him to scale, instead they offer flat, if valuable a bonuses. 30 damage coupled with grave chill can get his rightclick online a little sooner and 125 cast range can increase his potential in fights. Many opted for the cast range previously when it was a lvl 15 talent and I imagine it will be the favorite here as well. While none of these allow him to explosively scale as the gpm and xp talents did in 7.06 both are I feel useful in their own way.

Lvl 15 is a choice between soul assumption double strike and a 40% xp bonus. An xp talent, even a 40% xp talent, at lvl 15 is just too late in many cases since it doesn't accelerate any of your skills. At this point if you wanted you could just put the point into your skills instead of the talent and they'd all be maxed. For this talent to be useful it needs to either bring you closer to a very strong talent, or your next level of ult needs to be significant. In this case I'd argue both of those are true enough for it to be worth while, assuming you're not going to end up dying often and giving your opponents a higher xp bounty or spending more time dead. The 40% xp talent saves you 1560 xp in getting to lvl 18, which signifies getting lvl 18 where you normally wouldn't even be done with lvl 16. Additionally your lvl 25 talent of +1 familiar is good enough to justify pushing for higher experience I think in many cases though I'm getting ahead of myself there.

Lvl XP To Next Lvl To Next Lvl w/ 40% Reduction
15 10115 1275 765
16 11390 1300 780
17 12690 1325 795

Lvl 20 is a choice between 15 soul assumption damage per charge or +80 familiar movement speed. The standard damage per charge of soul assumption is 65 with a base of 20, so this represents a little over a 20% damage bonus on soul assumption. At this point in the game I'd argue that soul assumption has fallen off pretty hard though and bkbs are almost definitely getting online. I feel personally this is a pretty easy choice for the 80 movement speed which allows familiars to more reliably get into position for stuns, chase down weak opponents, and evade attempts to kill them.

Lvl 25 is a choice between -2s grave keepers cloak and +1 familiar. These are both actually very potent. The standard cd on Grave keepers is 3 seconds, this represents dropping it down to a 1 second cooldown ensuring that unless your opponents have a good way of dealing with in in one on one fights you could easily maintain 80% damage reduction with the slow from grave chill and possibly shivas at this stage of the game. Visage is at their strongest when they are allowed to sit at the edge of an extended team fight and repeatedly stun and dump out damage in theory this talent enables that if you found yourself becoming a quick target in teamfights. +1 familiar on the other hand is also an incredibly potent option. An additional familiar with aghs boosts your chain stun potential with nothing but resummon up to 12 seconds, if you do something ridiculous like add a refresher into that you can push it to 18 seconds. As well for just a single group of 4 familiars the cooldown is 14 seconds, which is absurd for the sheer duration of the disable. Their damage is also significant but even with 4 of them still not as substantial in most fights as it would have been with just aghs in 7.07.

Armor and magic resistance changes

One of the major ways Visage deals damage is by reducing his opponent's armor with Solar Crest and sometimes late game with AC. Stealing the chart from /u/rat_poison: Positive armor is less good and negative armor is less bad. This means for visage that in theory they will be less countered by some support rushing guardian greaves or a hero like Dragon Knight, but will also have less significant of an effect when reducing enemy armor. The removal of many other heroes late game armor talents also helps with this.

For the hero themselves whether an attack removes a grave chill charge is calculated after reductions from armor and mres. So the nerf to armor means that potentially an attack which might have removed a charge of grave keepers cloak before now won't, and the change to int and magic resistance means that a spell which dealt 70 or so damage in a tick which would have removed a charge previously due to int spell amp might still be below the threshold now. A lot has been said on these changes already elsewhere so I won't go further into them though.

Damage block

This one I think deserves its own section because it's probably one of the biggest factors in Visage's damage potential now. A stout shield blocks 50% of the time and reduces a lvl 1 familiars damage to 2. That means a stout shield blocks around 40% of lvl 1 familiar damage for 200 gold and most melee heroes are likely to pick one up in the standard course of a game. Beyond that vanguard and abyssal blade are both going to block 50% of your damage at all points in the game crimson guard gives 100% resistance to familiars for 12 seconds but even passively reduces familiar damage by half. The reduction of familiar damage to a single low flat value has massive implications when it comes to how Visage interacts with melee heroes. PA in particular in the standard course of a game is likely to be an impossible target for visage without a bloodthorn but really any hero which picks up a stout shield is suddenly a hard counter to visage's primary source of damage.

Taking theory onto the server

Okay I've talked a lot about how a bunch of numbers interact and how various things work in very simple situations but how does all of this actually compare to the techniques used in game and how do things actually work on the server. The most significant effects of translating this from theory onto the server is the server tick. Familiars with the grave chill buff should have a 0.24s attack rate. If we test this on the server. We can see an immediate disparity.

Time Time between attacks
18.14
18.41 0.27
18.71 0.3
18.97 0.26
19.27 0.3
19.54 0.27
19.84 0.3
20.1 0.26
20.4 0.3
20.67 0.27
20.97 0.3
21.24 0.27
21.54 0.3
21.8 0.26
22.1 0.3

We lose 18-20% of our damage due to simply rubbing up against the server tick. That 0.24s attack time is not something we will ever get. Even though without grave chill we see a very standard 0.4s attack time. So consider that graph before of the difference in familiar damage between the versions and reduce all the scaling of 7.07 by 18-20%. Considering this with lvl 3 familiars even against buildings we would actually be better off using last patches technique of attacking once every 2 seconds to maintain the familiar charges at 7 before dumping their damage once the building was low enough. Before lvl 18 though the 7.07 familiars are moderately better against buildings where their more consistent damage can come through over incredibly long periods.

Conclusions/tl;dr

Major nerfs which likely take things too far. Visage has seen some of the hardest nerfs to scaling this patch that any hero has every gotten which are made worse by the server tick stealing up to 20% of the attack speed which was meant to compensate for the lower damage. Combine that with losing 40% of their damage to a stout shield early on, and 50% to vanguard, abyssal blade, and crimson guard, and it's hard to see this hero being picked in anything but incredibly niche situations. Visage is always a hero whose had to secure an advantage to be strong which is why they adapted so well to the mid lane, these nerfs ensure that they fall off as a hero in many games before the horn has even sounded. I know there's a lot of hate for this hero due to their micro intensive nature and playstyle of bursting down supports and snowballing, but I feel it's a genuine shame to see them practically removed from the game.

Things which didn't quite fit here in any category

Removing the melee creep from midlane negates some of the mid xp advantage Visage used to snowball.

Visage is a hero who has always been limited by their mobility and who has trouble with blink dagger and if they have to tp into a fight without resummon available they are often fairly impotent. Increasing movement speed through agility and starting everyone with a tp scroll while slight in some ways only makes this problem more apparent.

Visage's familiars up until now would upon recovering a damage charge automatically upgrade their damage to match the current level of summon familiars. Now the only way to get the damage bonus that comes with a new level is to resummon.

Here's what 900 range looks like for grave chill effecting familiars.

Those damage comparisons are generally ignoring the increased cost of needing a grave chill target and to maintain the grave chill buff to get them. This hurts both in terms of mana use and means that that bonus attack speed will wear off and the scaling will be even worse, especially on resummon.

There is presently no reason to resummon other than to refresh the cooldown on stone form or to replace dead familiars.

My tables and graph are actually being very kind to the new damage system by simply ignoring attack wind up and treating it as the entire attack time.

submitted by /u/quadrapod
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Beastmaster Wild Axes debuff does not last 10 seconds?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 11:06 AM PDT

I remember going into demo hero to test out the new wild axes, however I rember seeing that the debuff they provide only last for 8 seconds as opposed to the 10 that it is supposed to? I am at work right now so I cannot double check this. Can somebody check the following:

Wild Axes CD is 8 seconds

Wild Axes debuff is 10 seconds

Thanks everyone!

submitted by /u/kashiman290
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Did support players got fucked with 7.07?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 05:22 AM PDT

I feel like my impact is way lower than before on support this patch.

First with the courier new price and tangoes i can't buy tango + clarity +2obs sentry and TP. I can't smoke TP to plant a ward to see the enemy lanes before the Horn

If i'm pos 4 i have now to buy at least one obs cuz the 5 can't do it.

Regarding laning, zoning is way more rewarding. But now you can't pull the hard camp and you can't stack until 2min, that's freaking long. And now you rely on your carry to freeze the lane properly.

Sometimes you have a weird guy that push the lane all the time and you could do some damage control and keep a decent creep equilibrum. Now you can't really do that anymore, if the lane is pushed you just have the small camp and the hard one.

Stack at 2min and you're fine ? Welp it's bounty time so if you stack the offlaner is gonna get two bounties so you need to contest those as well (and take into account that the offlaner will probably try to contest you since your carry is busy hitting creeps.

And of course the xp and gold coming from pulling is still garbage.

In the end i feel like icefrog gave some tools to have an impact previous patches and took them back with 7.07. safelaners and midlaners got some love but supports got fucked pretty hard.

I might just be salty about the changes,how do you feel about supporting nowadays?

submitted by /u/Ergotisme
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Will you be able to upgrade Kaya?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 09:54 AM PDT

Clearly sange, yasha and kaya are similar items for their respective attribute. As you can combine sange and yasha together, or upgrade them into heaven's halbred and manta style, respectively, will we eventually be able to have upgrades for Kaya?

I really like the item, but it feels like it needs an upgrade to stay relevant in the late game. What do my fellow redditors think?

submitted by /u/SomeCallMeStone
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Mana Shield and Kaya interaction?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 09:34 AM PDT

Just curious: How do Medusa's Mana Shield and Kaya interact? Its a waste of a slot but I'm curious if the 10% mana burn reduction would impact things here

submitted by /u/ming3r
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Mathematical Analysis: Anti-Mages Battlefury timing should be faster now, despite worse buildup, all other factors held constant

Posted: 02 Nov 2017 04:17 PM PDT

The quelling blade works out to do so much more work than anything else, it turns out. One 200 gold quelling blade is so much more cost effective than any other part of the buildup.

Keep in mind that every one of my numbers for the new version is going to undershoot how much it speeds up because of travel time between camps and lane, which is a consistent factor across both, but actually helps out the math here (Think about how (n + k) / n approaches 1 as n increases, think about how this would affect one of the percentage speeds below). Also I forgot treads, something else that favors the new buildup.

According to datdota, the median timing for Treads + Perseverance is 11:00. (Median is better than average because the median timing will still be for Battlefury, rather than Linkens). Median Antimages look like they are level 10 at this point. A level 10 AM with have 78-81 damage with no items. He will have 2 points in Mana Break by this point. We can even assume his base damage doesn't increase during the duration he farms (which would also make the new timing even faster.)

Median Battlefury timing is 16 minutes. A median antimage will be level 14 at this point, for 87-90 damage. He will usually have 3 points in Mana Break at this point.

Old version:

You farm 200 gold with no bonus damage.

You farm 1700 gold with +24 damage (Quelling Blade.)

You farm 1200 more gold with +34 bonus damage (QB+Perseverance)

You farm the last 1400 gold with +52 damage (Broadsword, QB and Perseverance.)

New Version: (I break the Demon Edge into two parts here to show how it works out for each part.)

You farm 200 gold (same as before, no bonus damage.)

You farm 1700 gold (same as before, +24 damage.)

You farm 1200 gold with +24 Damage. (QB) This will reduce your speed by ((81+24) / (81+24+10)) = 9%, not including Mana Break.

You farm 900 gold with +24 Damage. (QB) This will reduce your speed by (81+24) / (81+24+10+18) = 20%, without including Mana Break.

So, in the old version, an AM would have on average farmed 2600 gold in 5 minutes, so let's say it's an average of 520 GPM. Let's apply this figure with the reductions to our new numbers.

He farms at 91% of that speed for the first 1200 gold, so 455 GPM for 900 gold. It takes him 1.98 (let's say 2) minutes to farm the first 1200 gold.

He farms at 80% of the 520GPM for the next 900 gold, for 416GPM. This means he takes 2.15 minutes to farm the rest of the item, even with the reductions.

This means he now spends 4.15 minutes farming a part of the item it took him 5 minutes to farm before.

And reminder, this doesn't take into account Mana Break, which would speed the new timing up because the percentage reductions are lower, and it doesn't take into account travel time, which would also lean those percentage numbers more towards the new buildup.

AM on average will get Battlefury at the very minimum 45 seconds earlier than in 7.06, all other factors held constant, QED.

submitted by /u/meikyoushisui
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how to: use lobbies to practice pulls

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 11:51 AM PDT

step 1: make sure console is enabled, and that you have a hotkey for console

step 2: create a private lobby. the only important setting is to enable cheats (and to NOT fill empty slots with bots)

step 3: pick lich. yo're doing this to have access to the sacrifice skill to kill your own creeps if you need to

step 4: as you load in, type "-wtf" and "-item blink". -wtf gives everything no cooldown, blink lets you move around the map quickly.

step 5: go to whatever lane you want to practice, offlane or safelane, then type "-createhero axe" and then "-givebots heart". move axe directly in front of the enemy tier 1 tower and hold position. this will intercept all of the enemy creeps to let you pull in peace.

step 6: go into console and type "sv_cheats 1". now you can use this console command "host_timescale <#>". if you type "host_timescale 10" the game will run at 10x speed, if you type "host_timescale 1" the game will run at normal speed. this command lets you fast-forward the game until neutral creeps spawn, or in between pull timings. save yourself some time.

step 7: practice your pulls! practice chain pulling! use sacrifice to delete your creeps if you don't want to practice last hitting as well.

remember that safelane creeps move faster before 7:00 so it can be useful to practice pulling before and after that point. some of these techiniques are also useful to practice stacking, though I would recommend picking nature's prophet for the global teleport rather than lich.

have fun! this is somethign every support player should do whenever there are map changes.

submitted by /u/UNBR34K4BL3
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Kaya on Ember?

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 05:52 AM PDT

Have anyone tried this? Could it work as a substitute to veil or is it better to just go straight BoTs into something bigger?

My reasoning is the spell amp + more mana to play around with thanks to the cost reduction, and it's ~400g cheaper than a veil.

submitted by /u/Vonyx
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Playing Dark Willow as a support

Posted: 03 Nov 2017 11:18 AM PDT

So it seems that everyone is trying to work in the new heroes as cores, and frankly until her damage output is nerfed she might function well as one. But I see her as a support, and so far I've gone undefeated (7-0) in that role with her.

Personally I max her Bramble Maze (with a value point in her shadow realm and stun) for the potential to join early game team fights and absolutely dominate them, and the potential kill you get on offlaners through root+stun duration, made easier if your lane partner has some CC himself.

Items-wise, the typical support stuff works. Force, glimmer, euls, blink.

My dilemma is mostly on what to max second. Crown gets improved decently, which I think should be my priority as a support, but the damage and low cooldown of Shadow Realm makes it appealing as well, even though you rarely use it for damage dealing as a support, mostly as an escape tool so you can chill back and cast your CC.

Anyone else here playing her as a support? What are your skill builds and items? Arguments for or against her as a support or as core?

submitted by /u/DBZFShill
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What's the idea behind Crystal Maiden's +250 attack speed talent?

Posted: 02 Nov 2017 07:25 PM PDT

As title, I am trying to figure out the idea behind CM's attack speed talent since she is one of my favourite hero.

My only conclusion is so that she can farm faster (I believe attack speed scales better than the old +60 damage talent). The problem is this is a level 20 talent which is almost impossible for CM to reach in most games. I just don't see how this talent will give CM any carry potential at all. Any thoughts?

submitted by /u/unital
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