Dota 2 - Free talk Monday


Free talk Monday

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 01:54 PM PST

Hey Now,

Use this thread as an open place to discuss or say whatever you feel like. Three day weekends, why you're not studying for midterms, LA being under water, how Inside Out is better than Up, smart watches, water bottles, cuff-links, blue shirt link, chain link fences, or linkedin. Go crazy.

Just note that like other threads breaking the rules or being a bigot will still not be tolerated.

Wuv ya all

submitted by /u/leafeator
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Competitive Hero Trends (Feb 8th to Feb 20th)

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 03:00 PM PST

Notable stats

Tier 1

Hero P+B % 7.01 P+B % Diff Pick % Ban % Win % Dire Win % Radiant Win %
Slardar 93.81% 93.28% 0.53% 44.25% 49.56% 52.00% 53.57% 50.00%
Lone Druid 78.76% 31.43% 47.33% 26.55% 52.21% 43.33% 40.00% 46.67%
Weaver 77.88% 58.32% 19.56% 34.51% 43.36% 46.15% 47.62% 44.44%
Earth Spirit 76.11% 43.87% 32.24% 32.74% 43.36% 54.05% 58.33% 46.15%
Dark Seer 65.49% 71.09% -5.60% 22.12% 43.36% 36.00% 30.77% 41.67%
Ember Spirit 58.41% 63.70% -5.29% 30.97% 27.43% 48.57% 55.00% 40.00%
Shadow Fiend 56.64% 55.80% 0.84% 32.74% 23.89% 43.24% 47.62% 37.50%
Rubick 54.87% 65.21% -10.34% 42.48% 12.39% 52.08% 52.00% 52.17%
Meepo 51.33% 47.39% 3.94% 7.96% 43.36% 33.33% 0.00% 37.50%

Tier 2

Hero P+B % 7.01 P+B % Diff Pick % Ban % Win % Dire Win % Radiant Win %
Luna 49.56% 73.45% -23.89% 28.32% 21.24% 46.88% 50.00% 40.00%
Dazzle 48.67% 31.09% 17.58% 34.51% 14.16% 53.85% 68.75% 43.48%
Shadow Demon 46.02% 63.36% -17.34% 23.89% 22.12% 40.74% 30.00% 47.06%
Centaur Warrunner 46.02% 22.35% 23.67% 20.35% 25.66% 60.87% 45.45% 75.00%
Sand King 46.02% 56.30% -10.28% 19.47% 26.55% 40.91% 62.5% 28.57%
Lifestealer 45.13% 57.98% -12.85% 21.24% 23.89% 50.00% 50.00% 50.00%
Invoker 42.48% 19.66% 22.82% 25.66% 16.81% 55.17% 58.82% 50.00%
Vengeful Spirit 41.59% 24.03% 17.56% 31.86% 9.73% 55.56% 72.22% 38.89%
Juggernaut 41.59% 58.32% -16.73% 18.58% 23.01% 42.86% 46.15% 37.50%
Ogre Magi 37.17% 52.61% -15.44% 21.24% 15.93% 54.17% 25.00% 60.00%
Abyssal Underlord 37.17% 70.08% -32.91% 12.39% 24.78% 50.00% 85.71% 14.29%
Nyx Assassin 35.40% 29.92% 5.48% 24.78% 10.62% 42.86% 38.89% 50.00%

Tier 3

Hero P+B % 7.01 P+B % Diff Pick % Ban % Win % Dire Win % Radiant Win %
Outworld Devourer 33.63% 39.50% -5.87% 14.16% 19.47% 62.50% 57.14% 66.67%
Tinker 29.20% 36.30% -7.10% 14.16% 15.04% 50.00% 50.00% 50.00%
Keeper of the Light 29.20% 13.11% 16.09% 13.27% 15.93% 60.00% 57.14% 62.50%
Axe 27.43% 17.48% 9.95% 15.04% 12.39% 52.94% 62.50% 44.44%
Timbersaw 26.55% 25.21% 1.34% 9.73% 16.81% 54.55% 40.00% 66.67%
Sniper 26.55% 22.86% 3.69% 8.85% 17.70% 60.00% 50.00% 66.67%
Slark 24.78% 20.00% 4.78% 9.73% 15.04% 36.36% 60.00% 16.67%
Silencer 23.89% 20.34% 3.55% 13.27% 10.62% 46.67% 36.36% 75.00%
Magnus 23.89% 10.25% 13.64% 8.85% 15.04% 60.00% 50.00% 66.67%
Batrider 22.12% 53.61% -31.49% 11.50% 10.62% 61.54% 71.43% 50.00%
Disruptor 21.24% 34.45% -13.21% 15.04% 6.19% 47.06% 33.33% 54.55%
Leshrac 21.24% 11.76% 9.48% 7.08% 14.16% 37.50% 50.00% 0.00%
Terrorblade 20.35% 10.92% 9.43% 9.73% 10.62% 54.55% 75.00% 42.86%
Crystal Maiden 19.47% 9.24% 10.23% 15.93% 3.54% 66.67% 71.43% 63.64%
Clockwerk 19.47% 29.41% -9.94% 11.50% 7.96% 69.23% 100.00% 50.00%
Undying 19.47% 22.02% -2.55% 10.62% 8.85% 41.67% 0.00% 55.56%
Templar Assassin 19.47% 23.70% -4.23% 8.85% 10.62% 50.00% 50.00% 50.00%
Chen 19.47% 9.08% 10.39% 5.31% 14.16% 66.67% 66.67% 66.67%
Lycan 19.47% 5.31% 14.16% 83.33% 100.00% 66.67%
Naga Siren 19.47% 14.79% 4.68% 2.65% 16.81% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00%
Alchemist 17.70% 9.75% 7.95% 5.31% 12.39% 33.33% 33.33%
Io 17.70% 22.69% -4.99% 5.31% 12.39% 33.33% 25.00% 50.00%
Legion Commander 16.81% 20.84% -4.03% 9.73% 7.08% 54.55% 57.14% 50.00%
Ursa 16.81% 27.56% -10.75% 7.96% 8.85% 66.67% 57.14% 100.00%
Pudge 16.81% 20.34% -3.53% 5.31% 11.50% 50.00% 50.00%
Puck 15.04% 11.09% 3.95% 8.85% 6.19% 30.00% 25.00% 33.33%
Drow Ranger 15.04% 21.34% -6.30% 5.31% 9.73% 33.33% 33.33% 33.33%
Sven 13.27% 11.76% 1.51% 11.50% 1.77% 69.23% 83.33% 57.14%
Mirana 13.27% 22.35% -9.08% 7.96% 5.31% 22.22% 20.00% 25.00%
Witch Doctor 12.39% 21.68% -9.29% 10.62% 1.77% 33.33% 16.67% 50.00%
Brewmaster 12.39% 1.85% 10.54% 9.73% 2.65% 54.55% 40.00% 66.67%
Bane 12.39% 2.52% 9.87% 8.85% 3.54% 70.00% 75.00% 50.00%
Tusk 10.62% 1.34% 9.28% 9.73% 0.88% 45.45% 50.00% 42.86%

Tier 4

Hero P+B % 7.01 P+B % Diff Pick % Ban % Win % Dire Win % Radiant Win %
Bounty Hunter 9.73% 25.04% -15.31% 6.19% 3.54% 57.14% 66.67% 50.00%
Necrophos 9.73% 8.74% 0.99% 1.77% 7.96% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00%
Queen of Pain 9.73% 25.04% -15.31% 1.77% 7.96% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00%
Anti-Mage 8.85% 2.02% 6.83% 5.31% 3.54% 50.00% 0.00% 75.00%
Omniknight 8.85% 16.81% -7.96% 1.77% 7.08% 50.00% 0.00% 100.00%
Spirit Breaker 7.96% 6.39% 1.57% 7.08% 0.88% 62.50% 50.00% 75.00%
Abaddon 7.96% 10.76% -2.80% 5.31% 2.65% 50.00% 66.67% 33.33%
Beastmaster 7.96% 4.54% 3.42% 5.31% 2.65% 83.33% 100.00% 66.67%
Enigma 7.96% 6.22% 1.74% 4.42% 3.54% 20.00% 0.00% 33.33%
Clinkz 7.08% 2.02% 5.06% 4.42% 2.65% 20.00% 25.00% 0.00%
Tidehunter 7.08% 4.20% 2.88% 4.42% 2.65% 40.00% 50.00% 33.33%
Phantom Assassin 7.08% 5.04% 2.04% 3.54% 3.54% 75.00% 66.67% 100.00%
Doom 6.19% 2.69% 3.50% 6.19% 0.00% 28.57% 50.00% 0.00%
Morphling 6.19% 8.07% -1.88% 5.31% 0.88% 16.67% 25.00% 0.00%
Oracle 6.19% 10.76% -4.57% 4.42% 1.77% 20.00% 25.00% 0.00%
Kunkka 6.19% 8.40% -2.21% 3.54% 2.65% 25.00% 0.00% 33.33%
Viper 6.19% 9.58% -3.39% 2.65% 3.54% 66.67% 66.67%
Winter Wyvern 5.31% 5.88% -0.57% 2.65% 2.65% 66.67% 50.00% 100.00%
Night Stalker 5.31% 2.18% 3.13% 1.77% 3.54% 50.00% 0.00% 100.00%
Warlock 4.42% 8.07% -3.65% 4.42% 0.00% 20.00% 20.00%
Troll Warlord 4.42% 1.34% 3.08% 3.54% 0.88% 50.00% 50.00% 50.00%
Lina 4.42% 2.02% 2.40% 3.54% 0.88% 50.00% 50.00% 50.00%
Wraith King 4.42% 1.51% 2.91% 3.54% 0.88% 75.00% 100.00% 66.67%
Windranger 3.54% 0.67% 2.87% 3.54% 0.00% 25.00% 25.00%
Faceless Void 3.54% 6.55% -3.01% 1.77% 1.77% 50.00% 50.00%
Broodmother 3.54% 1.01% 2.53% 1.77% 1.77% 100.00% 100.00%

Tier 5

Hero P+B % 7.01 P+B % Diff Pick % Ban % Win % Dire Win % Radiant Win %
Earthshaker 2.65% 3.53% -0.88% 2.65% 0.00% 33.33% 50.00% 0.00%
Tiny 2.65% 4.71% -2.06% 2.65% 0.00% 33.33% 50.00% 0.00%
Lion 2.65% 3.53% -0.88% 2.65% 0.00% 66.67% 100.00% 0.00%
Medusa 2.65% 2.18% 0.47% 2.65% 0.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00%
Gyrocopter 2.65% 2.86% -0.21% 2.65% 0.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00%
Elder Titan 2.65% 0.34% 2.31% 1.77% 0.88% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
Phantom Lancer 2.65% 1.01% 1.64% 1.77% 0.88% 50.00% 100.00% 0.00%
Razor 2.65% 5.71% -3.06% 1.77% 0.88% 50.00% 0.00% 100.00%
Lich 1.77% 0.67% 1.10% 1.77% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
Jakiro 1.77% 8.07% -6.30% 0.00% 1.77%
Storm Spirit 1.77% 19.83% -18.06% 0.00% 1.77%
Zeus 0.88% 0.34% 0.54% 0.88% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
Phoenix 0.88% 1.01% -0.13% 0.88% 0.00% 0.00%
Dragon Knight 0.88% 11.09% -10.21% 0.88% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
Riki 0.88% 12.10% -11.22% 0.88% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
Bristleback 0.88% 0.34% 0.54% 0.88% 0.00% 100.00% 100.00%
Enchantress 0.88% 2.02% -1.14% 0.88% 0.00% 100.00% 100.00%
Chaos Knight 0.88% 2.69% -1.81% 0.88% 0.00% 100.00%

FeelsBadMan

Shadow Shaman, Natures Prophet, Pugna, Spectre, Bloodseeker, Venomancer, Death Prophet, Visage, Arc Warden, Huskar, Ancient Apparition, Skywrath Mage


Includes ~100 matches from D2CL, Well-Played Invitational, and DAC qualifiers after the 7.02 patch release. Does not include elimination mode. Data liable to regional biases and fluctuations due to low sample size. Stats do lie.

Shoutout to datdota for the numbers.

This is a sticky from days past. Let us know if we should bring it back or if stats looks off.

submitted by /u/coronaria
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What if Maim actually reduced life gain by any means by 26/13% when on sange and yasha ? It means it would be good against some heroes, but not totally OP.

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 05:33 AM PST

To an extend:

You have 100 HP Regen/sec (Alchemist) you'll now have 74 HP Regen/Sec for 5 seconds

You have an Omni as ally, he would heal you for 360, with the debuff you would heal only 270.

ANY FORM of heal would be reduced by 26/13%.

It would just gives another bonus to an already not powerfull item, it would still not that powerfull, but you could maybe think on it to deal with some heroes, like Alch, Axe, Bristle, Timber, even underlord with lvl 25 Talent.

submitted by /u/Nonirik
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Lion taunt bait for ward spot (Next level)

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 08:46 AM PST

Can Valve pls continue the True Sight series? Maybe with Liquid or OG?

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 01:18 AM PST

It seems like everyone jsut forgot about True Sight, and there are still many more teams out there to film, I myself would be so excited if they made one for Liquid and OG! Especially since they're all VERY good friends in the team :)

submitted by /u/All4Dolan
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Dota2 X Dark Soul 3 Sven

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 01:12 AM PST

Sun Strike delay

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 08:52 AM PST

There are 24 hours in a day/night cycle (= 86 400 seconds). In dota, that is 8 minutes (= 480 seconds). Therefore, 1 second in dota equals 180 seconds in real life. It takes about 8 minutes and 20 seconds for sunlight to go from the Sun to the Earth. That is 500 seconds in reality, which is 2.77 seconds in dota time. However, sunstrike delay is 1.7 seconds in dota time. For Venus, it would take 2 seconds dota time and for Mercury a bit above 1 second dota time. Therefore, the dota universe is situated somewhere between Mercury and Venus or fix delay.

submitted by /u/kintite
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Why are bracers of the bladeform aesthete (white jugg set) so dark?

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 07:02 AM PST

Courier Snipe

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 04:40 AM PST

Anyone else feel like the new timings killed stacking

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 04:42 AM PST

5k player and it's rare I ever see a stacked jungle camp

submitted by /u/hashbown
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Let's Talk About Talent Trees

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 09:01 AM PST

Let's Talk about Talent Trees: Part 1

So talent trees were probably the most controversial addition to the world of Dota since Valve took over development. The overall conclusion once people got over the initial "I don't like change" phase was positive. One of the great strengths of Dota has always been the fun you can have in building your hero in an unusual way, talents gave us another tool to diversify our heroes. Now that the dust has settled I'd like to have a look at what heroes won out, what heroes got shafted, the talents that we overrate and the ones which we should really be picking up more often. As the only real statistical comparison we can use to compare talent choices is dotabuff's win rate scores that is the metric we will be using but there are some issues with this that I'll go into below.

 

A Word on Using Win Rates to Compare Talents

Dota is an inherently snowbally game, the chances of coming back from a 20k gold lead or a 30 kill deficit 30 minutes into a game are slim. The choices that each team make once this kind of lead has been established are largely inconsequential compared to the choices that got them there in the first place (when we're looking at the post match stats anyway). Some items have in the past been called "win more" items because they don't really do much if you're behind, they just help you to cement a win from an already solid lead. It's arguable whether the same still applies in some cases, items like abyssal have been given a more defensive bent so that it is not always just picked up by an already snowballing carry. But I think you'd be hard pressed to make a case for buying boots of travel level 2 on a losing team unless the game had gone so late that the laws of standard Dota no longer applied. Boots of travel level 2 has a 73.68% win rate (according to dotabuff at the time of writing), but this win rate is basically irrelevant in deciding whether or not this item is "good" or "bad" because it most likely had very little impact on deciding the outcome of the game.

The same applies to talents, if the player is given a choice between an offensive and a defensive talent then the win rates of those talents are likely to reflect the state of mind that the player was in when he had to make that choice. What you have to ask yourself with these statistics is "did the talent decide the game or did the game decide the talent?". A player who feels forced to take 250 health over 20 damage on AM at level 10 was probably not having the best game in the first place so it should come as no surprise that the health pickup boasts a 2.5% lower win rate. The most egregious example of this effect is found when comparing build choices involving the -Xs respawn talents.

 

The Overused but hard to judge: Respawn Reduction

Hero Level Amount Alternative Win Rate Δ Pick Rate
Ancient Apparition 20 35s +35 movespeed -8.0% 71.2%
Beastmaster 15 35s +12 Strength -2.3% 47.2%
Brewmaster 20 35s +20 Strength -7.5% 61.9%
Bristleback 20 35s +45 Attack speed -5.7% 46.1%
Chen 20 40s +90 Gold/Min -0.8% 53.2%
Clockwerk 20 25s +12% Magic Resistance -6.4% 41.1%
Crystal Maiden 20 35s +120 Gold/Min -2.4% 47.7%
Dazzle 20 30s +25 Movement Speed -7.6% 69.0%
Disruptor 15 30s -3s Kinetic Field Cooldown -3.1% 66.3%
Earth Spirit 25 45s +300 Rolling Boulder Damage -6.6% 53.3%
Earthshaker 20 35s +40 Echo Damage -3.7% 31.8%
Elder Titan 10 20s +10 Strength -1.6% 55.3%
Enchantress 25 50s +12 Nature's Attendants Wisps -9.0% 66.9%
Enigma 20 40s +300 Health -3.8% 75.5%
Io 25 50s +150 Spirits Damage -6.8% 67.8%
Jakiro 25 50s +1.25s Ice Path Duration -7.1% 59.8%
Keeper of the Light 15 25s +20% XP Gain -2.0% 66.2%
Legion Commander 20 20s +7 Armour -5.3% 47.0%
Lina 10 25s +60 Light Strike Array Damage -0.9% 44.1%
Lion 10 25s +45 Damage +0.1% 68.0%
Lone Druid 20 40s +12 Spirit Bear Armour -1.5% 70.8%
Lycan 15 25s +12 Strength -4.5% 62.6%
Magnus 25 35s -4s Shockwave Cooldown -5.7% 74.5%
Nature's Prophet 25 40s 2x Treant HP/Damage -4.3% 63.6%
Oracle 10 20s +20% XP Gain -1.7% 50.0%
Phoenix 10 20s +175 Health -0.7% 69.4%
Pudge 20 40s +150 Gold/Min -2.3% 57.2%
Pugna 15 25s +12 Strength -4.8% 68.0%
Sand King 15 30s +50 Sand Storm DPS -2.2% 61.7%
Shadow Demon 20 25s +10% Magic Resistance -4.1% 77.5%
Shadow Shaman 20 30s +20% Magic Resistance -4.0% 77.4%
Spirit Breaker 20 40s +120 Gold/Min -0.3% 55.8%
Techies 20 60s +120 Gold/Min +1.5% 61.6%
Templar Assassin 25 30s +3 Refraction Instances -9.5% 34.9%
Treant Protector 20 50s +5 Living Armour Block Instances -5.8% 65.2%
Undying 10 30s +90 Gold/Min -0.5% 32.8%
Venomancer 25 60s 3x Plague Ward HP/Damage -6.1% 40.8%
Visage 20 40s +300 Health -4.4% 57.2%
Witch Doctor 15 40s +90 Damage -2.4% 69.6%
Zeus 20 40s +35 Movement Speed -5.2% 67.4%

 

It seems people don't like being dead. The thing that strikes me most death reduction talents is just how many people pick them. Even if we take into account that this is the defining example of a talent that people pick when they are losing, it still leaves us with examples like Enigma where over 75% of players would rather come back into the fight 40s sooner than have 300 more health to potentially not die while blackholing in the first place. Other examples that I find baffling are Templar Assassin and Legion Commander. In a surprising number of games, players end up choosing a reduced death timer over tools that would prevent them dying in the first place, even with something as important as duel damage on the line. The fact is a reduction in death timer gives you nothing when you are alive, these talents always trade a definite benefit for a speculative one.

So is Respawn Reduction always a bad choice? In a word: no. I think this talent in particular was an attempt by Icefrog to somewhat redress the snowbally nature of Dota, he tried to do with in 6.82 with the rubber-band mechanic but a negative community reaction shut that down almost immediately. In a more subtle way this talent gives a team a bolstered chance to come back from a deficit.

Of the 42 heroes that have access to this talent only 2 boast a win rate boost when selecting it however if we factor in the propensity for a player fighting an uphill battle to choose this talent then we can have a look at the smaller win differences and see who benefits most from this talent. Lina, Lion, Phoenix and Undying are all early game power houses that can pick this talent up at level 10. Dying on these heroes is par for the course and being able to be back up faster and lending their damage to the next team fight can make all the difference. The only Core hero to show only a small win rate drop with this talent is Lone Druid and this maybe comes down to being able to suicide into towers and be back up in time to continue the push (That and 12 Bear Armour just isn't that good when the hero is currently better without the Bear).

 

The Overrated: Gold Per Minute

Hero Level Amount Alternative Win Rate Δ Pick Rate
Ancient Apparition 10 60 +8% Spell Amplification -1.1% 64.7%
Chaos Knight 20 120 +12 All Stats -6.6% 34.1%
Chen 20 90 -40s Respawn Time +0.8% 46.8%
Crystal Maiden 20 120 -35s Respawn Time +2.3% 52.3%
Disruptor 10 60 +100 Cast Range -0.1% 55.0%
Dragon Knight 20 120 +300 Health -2.8% 44.2%
Earth Spirit 15 90 +15% Magic Resistance +0.3% 73.1%
Enigma 15 120 15% Cooldown Reduction -2.1% 33.8%
Faceless Void 20 120 +300 Health -2.7% 56.1%
Io 20 120 +20 Health Regen -7.3% 41.4%
Jakiro 20 150 +400 Attack Range -2.2% 49.5%
Kunkka 20 120 +300 Health -1.6% 63.1%
Lich 20 120 +150 Damage -1.9% 45.5%
Lion 15 90 +80 Earth Spike Damage +0.1% 60.6%
Magnus 15 90 +12 Strength -1.7% 63.4%
Nyx Assassin 20 120 +40 Agility -3.3% 59.7%
Ogre Magi 10 60 +100 Cast Range -0.9% 55.5%
Omniknight 10 60 +20% XP Gain +1.2% 81.1%
Oracle 15 60 +200 Health +0.2% 71.9%
Phoenix 15 90 +50 Fire Spirit DPS -2.2% 57.6%
Puck 25 300 +75% Illusory Orb Distance/Speed -6.1% 38.2%
Pudge 20 150 -40s Respawn Time +2.3% 42.8%
Queen of Pain 15 90 12% Cooldown Reduction -2.1% 32.9%
Rubick 10 60 +60 Damage -0.2% 80.5%
Sand King 20 120 +350 Health -1.4% 60.2%
Silencer 15 60 +200 Health -1.7% 63.5%
Skywrath Mage 15 90 +75 Damage +0.1% 70.8%
Spirit Breaker 20 120 -40s Respawn Time +0.3% 44.2%
Techies 20 120 -60s Respawn Time -1.5% 38.4%
Treant Protector 15 90 +25 Movement Speed -2.7% 77.8%
Tusk 15 90 +150 Snowball Damage -2.0% 46.7%
Undying 10 90 -30s Respawn Time +0.5% 67.2%
Visage 10 90 +25% XP Gain -1.3% 80.5%
Winter Wyvern 20 120 -35s Respawn Time +3.0% 54.6%

 

Greed is not always good. It is quite telling that most of the times where this statistically winds up being the best choice is when it is being chosen over a talent that gives you nothing at all while alive. Dota games usually run between 30 and 40 minutes. These talents are typically picked up once the game is already 10-20 minutes in so you can work out on average for a given talent how much that gold is probably worth in most matches, and what the comparative value you're trading for it is.

In the case of Chaos Knight over a third of players choose to go for 120 GPM at level 20 rather than +12 to all stats. Let's be generous and say that our chaos knight gets some crazy XPM (say 800) and hits lvl 20 at 20 minutes. We'll say that the game has 20 minutes longer on average so we'll have a look at what he gains from both his choices. If he takes the stats he gets an ultimate orb + circlet worth of stats. Call that 2365 gold of stats for an extremely efficient 0 item slots. He gets this benefit immediately. If we compare this to using the gold to buy stats (because CK would be building stats anyway), CK would wait 20 minutes before making that 2.4k gold required to buy the stats. 2.4k gold of stats now, compared to 2.4k gold in 20 minutes.

Over 40% of Wisp players choose to forego 20 Health Regen for some payoff at a later date. 20 Health Regen on a support that can share its regen with it's carry and frequently buys a heart to do just that is REALLY good.

Even when the perceived benefit does not have a high gold value it might still be something that can be hard to acquire without burning up item slots (+25 MS on Treant) or is straight up something that you can't buy such as 50 Fire Spirit DPS.

These GPM talents are bad for the same reason as the respawn time reduction ones, you are trading a definite benefit NOW for a speculative one at some time in the future.

 

So I've chided the talents I feel are most overused, what about the talents that people don't pick up enough of the time? I don't have time to work through every single one of the generics or the hero skill specific unique talents. For the most part I think the choices you're presented with are relatively balanced and when greed doesn't get the better of them people can usually make the right choice that befits them in a choice between say 15 attack damage and 15 moves peed. Most of the time Dota players know the rough value of the stats they're choosing between and can make an informed choice that fits their build and game. That said there is one particular talent within the generics that I think is criminally undervalued.

 

The Criminally Underused: Mana Regen

Hero Level Amount Alternative Win Rate Δ Pick Rate
Axe 10 3 +6 Strength +4.3% 43.5%
Brewmaster 10 3 +30 Attack Speed +1.5% 28.2%
Bristleback 10 2 +7 Strength +2.1% 39.4%
Centaur Warrunner 10 2 +35 Damage +1.5% 31.9%
Io 15 10 +10 Strength +8.0% 52.8%
Omniknight 20 6 +100 Damage +5.5% 38.1%
Pudge 10 2 +8 Strength +2.7% 38.9%
Pugna 10 3 +150 Health +3.0% 56.3%
Skywrath 25 14 -4s Ancient Seal Cooldown +6.3% 51.7%
Sniper 10 5 +15 Attack Speed -0.4% 11.6%
Storm Spirit 10 3 +20 Damage -1.6% 55.9%
Techies 10 2 +20 Movement Speed +3.7% 83.7%
Tidehunter 20 6 +15 Strength +6.5% 32.6%
Tiny 20 14 +25 Attack Speed +2.3% 11.9%
Treant Protector 10 2 +30 Attack Speed +3.1% 45.0%
Underlord 10 2 +4 Armour +2.7% 33.9%
Windranger 10 4 +25% Windrun Slow +2.2% 57.9%
Zeus 10 2 +175 Health +3.8% 75.3%

 

Guys. Being able to use your spells is good. Mana regen has been a rare commodity in Dota for the longest time. Typically you could boost your mana regen with percentage based boosters with sage's mask and void stone based items. Your options for increasing raw mana regen were either a basi and it's derivatives giving you a whopping 0.65 (0.8 for Vlads) or a bloodstone giving you 1 per charge. With 6.87 we got raindrops giving us 0.85 as another source.

To put these numbers into context, a clarity gives you 3.8 mana regen. At level 10 Axe gets to basically choose between 6 strength or constantly being claritied. The majority of players choose the strength. Io gets to choose between 10 mana regen, on a strength hero, which he can share. Almost half of people choose 10 strength instead. You get 0.04 Mana regeneration per point of Intelligence, based on that you would need 250 Int to get 10 mana regen.

Please, please take raw mana regeneration when it is offered to you. The only exceptions to this rule are heroes that either build a bloodstone almost every game (storm) or get enough regen from an aquilla to use their spells all game (sniper, drow).

There are other situations where strength and agi casters are offered Int and mana talents and they are similarly overlooked in favour of a little bit of damage or health. All heroes lost some stats in 7.00 with the removal of stats as a level up option, so these +int and +mana talents are even more important.

In short, are you a Tide? Do you like being able to Ravage? Are you an axe? Do you like being able to dunk? PICK THE MANA REGEN TALENT.

I'll be back next time to talk about which talent trees actually add diversity and which trees pidgeonhole a hero into one particular build.

Note: I may have made some errors with some of the pick rates etc, apologies if so.

submitted by /u/Sladof
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When you get sick of EE talking too much

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 10:59 PM PST

Hero3: Everything wrong with Ancient Apparition, part 2/2

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 06:04 PM PST

part 1

Here is part 2, covering other stuff, like minor glitches, inconsistencies, inconveniences and some suggestions.

Note that most of these are not considered bugs. They are things that I think are hindering the hero unecessarily and would be nice if they were changed/tweaked.


Part 2 of 2: Suggestions and other minor things.

Ancient Apparition

  • Total number of subjects: 22
  • Number of bugs: 13 (previous post)
  • Number of minor issues: 5 (this post)
  • Number of other stuff: 3 (this post)

other stuff includes inconsistencies, inconveniences and suggestions


1. Make Chilling Touch not slow upon attacking buildings/wards

The ability does not work against buildings and wards, but it still slows your attack speed when attacking those.

For this reason, the ability to manually remove the buff was added (left-click it to remove it). There is a much better solution to this though. It would be much more benificial for AA and his team when the buff would simply not slow your attacks upon attacking buildings or wards. It could work similar to Focus Fire, which applies its effect only when attacking a specific target.

Video demo of current behavior


2. Cold Feet's initial debuff has no visible timer on the status debuff icon

Expiring or timed modifiers usually indicate their duration on the ability icon. Cold Feet's initial debuff however looks like a permanent/passive/aura buff. It should show a timer like e.g. Last Word.

Video demo, you can see how Last Word's debuff runs out in the status bar, its red borders indicate the duration. Cold Feet does not do this.


3. Ice Blast cannot be leveled up while the Release sub-spell is active.

This is because of the issue mentioned in the first post, it has only 1 level. However, even if it would have 3 levels, it needs to made levelable. Because some such spells cannot be leveled either, despite having the correct amount of levels.

Other affected spells are:

  • Nightmare
  • Tether
  • Astral Spirit
  • Illuminate
  • Illuminate (Spirit Form)
  • Song of the Siren
  • Icarus Dive
  • Sun Ray
  • Telekinesis
  • Chakram
  • Snowball

Video demo


4. Ice Blast's Release sub-spell does not have its own icon

It currently shares the same icon with Ice Blast itself. Most other sub-spells have their own icons.

Besides Ice Blast, these sub-spells also share this fate (no own icon):

  • X Marks the Spot's Return
  • Snowball's Launch Snowball
  • Primal Spring's Spring Early

The main issue here is, new players may not notice that there is a sub-spell. How often does it happen that your Tusk doesn't launch his snowball earlier, or your Kunkka doesn't return the target earlier? If it would have its own icon, maybe they'd notice there is a new spell.

(PS: 3 out of 4 of these spells already have custom icons from cosmetic items, they'd need fitting icons as well)

Image, on the left side, we have all spell icons and the icons of their sub-spells. On the right side, we have the 4 spells with no unique sub-spell icon (and the cosmetic item custom versions)


5. Enemies affected by Ice Blast can be denied by their allies/by neutrals

They cannot deny themselves while affected by Ice Blast, AA gets the kill credits if the shatter was caused by self-inflicted damage. But allies can deny them still. The shatter only checks if it was self-inflicted damage.

According to DotA 1, only AA and his team should be able to get the kill credits. If the shattering was caused by the enemy, an ally of the enemy, or a neutral unit, AA should get the credits.

This is a case where I think the DotA1 behavior was better. Because currently, an enemy Oracle can easily prevent kills this way. Neutrals can be abused quite reliably as well.

Video demo


6. Ice Blast can debuff invulnerable units

Invulnerability should be a "safe spot" for units. And it basically is, with only very very few spells being able to affect invulnerable units (such as Meat Hook). Ice Blast, for some reason, cannot be dodged with invulnerability.

It should not be able to debuff invulnerable units in my opinion, so that it can be dodged like many other spells.

Video demo


7. Cold Feet does not have infinite charges in -wtf mode

Quite annoying. Charge-based spells are supposed to have infinite charges in free spells mode. But all spells which gain their charges do not have infinite charges.

Affected spells are:

  • Cold Feet (charges gained via talent)
  • Homing Missile (charges gained via talent)
  • Rupture (charges gained via Aghanim's Scepter)
  • Demonic Purge (charges gained via Aghanim's Scepter)

All other charge-based spells have infinite charges. They are also charge-based from the beginning and don't gain it later on in a match.

Video demo


8. Ice Blast's launch sound doesn't play when launched on death by Rubick or illusions

When the caster of Ice Blast dies, the ice ball gets released immediately if it wasnt releasead yet. For Ancient Apparition, it plays the launch sound when this happens. But for Rubick or illusions, the launch sound is not played.

Video demo


9. Tooltip stuff

Lots of tooltip stuff

Cold Feet:

  • Cold Feet description could be reworded to be clearer.
  • Cold Feet has an unnecessary note telling its total damage
  • Cold Feet has an unnecessary note telling its tick interval (with an outdated value)
  • Add Cold Feet note telling that it can't be cast on units already affected by it
  • Add Cold Feet note telling that the spell completely cancels when walking out of range once
  • Change "DAMAGE PER TICK" to "DAMAGE PER SECOND", making the damage interval note redundant
  • Add "CHARGE RESTORE TIME" To the traits, since the cooldown disappears once the charge talent is chosen, leaving the player no info about how long it takes to recharge (it should only appear when the talent is chosen)

Ice Vortex:

  • Reworded Ice Vortex description to tell that it reduces magic resistance (currently says it amplifies magical damage done against the target), and removed duration from description, moved to traits
  • Remov Ice Vortex note saying that it doesn't affect spell immune enemies (tooltip header already tells spell immunity interaction)
  • Add Ice Vortex note telling Ice Vortex stacking behavior (doesnt stack)
  • Add Ice Vortex note telling about its 200 radius ground vision
  • Add Ice Vortex note about its debuff lingering
  • Chang "INCREASED MAGIC DAMAGE" to "MAGIC RESISTANCE REDUCTION" for accuracy and consistancy
  • Add VORTEX DURATION to traits

Chilling Touch:

  • Remov duration and "ancient apparition always receives the buff" from Chilling Touch description (mov cd to traits and the other sentence to notes).
  • Reword Chilling Touch's first note about its damage being separate to be clearer
  • Reword Chilling Touch's second note about it only working against creeps and heroes to also tell its interaction vs units it doesn't affect (still applies slow)
  • Add Chilling Touch note telling it always buffs the caster (moved here from the description and reworded to not use hero names because Rubick)
  • Chang "ATTACK SPEED: -20" to "ATTACK SPEED SLOW: 20"
  • Add DURATION to traits

Ice Blast:

  • Slighty reword Ice Blast description to say it prevents health regen, and not regen in general (doesnt prevent mana regen)
  • Reword Ice Blast note about its aoe growth to be more clear
  • Add Ice Blast note about the initial tracer (visibility to enemies)
  • Reword Ice Blast note telling it only shatters heroes, to it only debuffs heroes, while creeps and illus are only hit by the impact damage
  • Reword Ice Blast note about its hp freeze to say all kind of heals, instead of most
  • Expand Ice Blast note about its kill credit stuff
  • Change "DAMAGE" to "IMPACT DAMAGE", because it applies burst and dot damage and this trait is refering to the burst damage

Release:

  • Add 3 levels to the Release sub-spell, so ALT-clicking it shows the correct level (needs to be coded to level up together with Ice Blast)

Modifiers:

  • Reword Cold Feet initial modifier to get rid of "you" and "will"
  • Reword Cold Feet stun modifier to get rid of hero names (because Rubick)
  • Add description to Cold Feet charges modifier, copied from other charge-based spells' modifiers
  • Reword Ice Vortex modifier to say it reduces magic resistance, to get rid of "will" and added values
  • Reword Chilling Touch modifier to get rid of "will" and to fit the style of most other modifiers
  • Reword Ice Blast modifier to get rid of "will"

Image

submitted by /u/Bu3nyy
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Hero2: Everything wrong with Ancient Apparition, part 1/2

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 05:12 PM PST

part 2:

E: Yes, I failed the title.

Once a week or every 2 weeks, I'll make a post focusing on a single hero, pointing out every issue I could find (this includes cosmetic items), and also including some suggestions for the hero, mainly quality of life stuff and minor possible improvements.

Since no one is perfect, I probably missed some stuff. If you know any other issue about this hero, or have an idea for small improvement (not balancing stuff), feel free to post them

Some of these posts will be split up into multiple ones, because else they'll get too long.


Hero 1 part 1, Hero 1 part 2

Hero 2 part 1, Hero 2 part 2


Part 1 of 2: Bugs

Ancient Apparition

  • Total number of subjects: 22
  • Number of bugs: 13 (this post)
  • Number of minor issues: 5 (next post)
  • Number of other stuff: 3 (next post)

other stuff includes inconsistencies, inconveniences and suggestions

Bugs are sorted by order of severity.


1. Cold Feet (& Homing Missile) always use level 1 cooldown as recharge time, regardless of level

Cold Feet has a cooldown of 13/11/9/7. So when chosing the charges talent on level 25, you'd expect the recharge time to be equal to the cooldowns right? Yea, but that's not quite the case.

Repro:

  1. Level up to 25 and chose the Cold Feet charges talent
  2. Have Cold Feet on level 2 or higher (most noticable with level 4)
  3. Immediately use all your charges
  4. Check the recharge time (displayed like a cooldown when having 0 charges)
  5. As soon as a charge is ready, use it up immediately again
  6. Check the recharge time again

Result: The very first charge recharging uses the current level's cooldown as recharge time. All other charges recharging right after it use the level 1 cooldown as recharge time. So for it to use the correct time, you must have 3/3 charges, otherwise it will use the lvl 1 recharge time.

Expected behavior: All charges should recharge using the current level's cooldown.

Video demo


2. Cold Feet's break distance is spherical, instead of a flat circle

Usually, Dota 2 uses 2 dimensional areas for this kind of stuff. Cold Feet is one of the 2 spells which use a 3 dimensional shape for their range checks. (edit: The second spell being Timbersaw's Chakrams).

Repro:

  1. Cast Cold Feet on an enemy
  2. Have a Tiny toss the same unit straight upwards

Result: Cold Feet gets dispelled, because Toss moves the unit outside of the spherical shaped search area

Expected behavior: Like every other aoe effect, Cold Feet's search area should be a 2 dimensional circle.

Video demo

Edit: Note that Toss is just the best example. Any way of upward movement can cancel it when being far enough away from the center. a Cyclone cancels it when about 300 range off from the center.


3. Rubick copies the charges-talent when stealing Cold Feet (& Homing Missile)

Rubick genereally does not copy and talent bonus spells receive. For some reason, Cold Feet and Homing Missile talents are the only ones being copied.

Repro:

  1. Steal Cold Feet (or Homing Missile) from an enemy AA (or Gyro) who has the lvl 25 charges talent skilled
  2. Steal any other talent-boosted spell from another enemy

Result: Your stolen Cold Feet has the charges as well, the talent gets copied. Other stolen talent-boosted spells are not talent-boosted for Rubick.

Expected behavior: The talent bonus should not be copied.

Personal opinion: Would be much better if Rubick would copy talent bonuses the enemy has chosen. Or at least as an aghs upgrade.

Video demo


4. Ice Blast can shatter enemies who are above the shatter threshold

This is an issue caused by how Ice Blast checks for health and shatters. Currently, it checks for your health on each tick. If on one tick your hp is below the shatter threshold, you will shatter on the next tick. This means, if you Time Lapse or Sunder within that tick, you'll still shatter.

Repro:

  1. Get hit by Ice Blast
  2. Have your hp drop close to the shatter point
  3. As soon as reaching the shatter point, cast Time Lapse/Sunder so that your above the threshold again

Result: You shatter, even if you managed to heal back up to full health.

Expected behavior: The health check and the shatter should happen on the same tick, and not be delayed by a tick

Personal opinion: Make Ice Blast prevent absolutely every form of hp increase. As of now, 4 sources are still able to "heal" through it, 2 of them being obvious bugs (see below), and the other 2 being Sunder and Time Lapse.

Video demo Combat log


5. Decay and Whirling Death can heal through Ice Blast's hp freeze

Ice Blast is supposed to freeze your hp. Every healing and hp regen is prevented. Even hp gain from gaining strength is prevented, like picking up str items, toggling Armlet or morphing strength. But for some reason, Decay and Whirling Death (the hp again upon losing the debuff when being a str hero) are not prevented.

Repro as Undying:

  1. Be at like 50% hp
  2. Get hit by Ice Blast
  3. Cast Decay on enemy heroes (with Aghs, for more obvious results)

Result: The 50% hp part isnt necessary, but makes this much clearer. Your current hp raises. The healing aspect of Decay (which is coded into the ability) goes through Ice Blast and heals you.

Repro as Timbersaw

  1. Be a strength hero and at like 50% hp (again, hp amount only to make it more obvious)
  2. Get hit by Whirling Death
  3. Before the debuff expires, get hit by Ice Blast. Time it so that it expires while frostbitten

Result: Upon losing the Whirling Death debuff, you get healed (same as with Decay, this is coded into the ability). That healing ignores the Ice Blast debuff and heals through it.

Expected behavior: Just like how it is with other str granting effects, Decay and Whirling Death should not be able to increase your current hp while frostbitten.

Video demo

(PS: In the video, you can also see how Whirling Death's heal per strength was not updated from 19 to 20. Omni lost 18.69 strength per WD debuff, and upon expiring, he regained 355 hp per debuff, 18.69*19=355.11)


6.Ice Blast prevents Reaper's Scythe from increasing respawn time

It also prevents Necrophos from getting the kill credits.

Repro:

  1. Hit an enemy hero with Ice Blast
  2. Before they shatter, cast Reaper's Scythe on it, so that they shatter during its stun

Result: The shatter kills the target, creditting it to whoever caused the shatter. Its respawn time is not increased.

Expected behavior: Reaper's Scythe should probably take priority. It should force the credit to Necrophos. Either way, it definitely should apply its respawn time increase, no matter how the target dies during it.

Video demo


7. Ice Blast prevents Duel from graning victory damage

Only happens when the caster of Duel dies to the shatter. Works fine when the duel target dies to Ice Blast instead.

Repro:

  1. Cast Duel on an enemy
  2. Get hit by Ice Blast
  3. Die to Ice Blast's shatter during the duel
  4. Repeat the test, but this time with the duel target dying to Ice Blast shatter

Result: Your duel target, who is victor, does not gain the victory damage bonus. If the roles are reversed (duel target dies to ice blast shatter, instead of duel caster), the victor does gain the victory damage

Note that the behavior is not bugged when not dying to the shatter (i.e. enemy straight-out kills you without the shatter proccing)

Expected behavior: The target should be able to gain the damage if the duel caster dies to Ice Blast.

Video demo


8. Ice Blast prevents Wraith King's Reincarnation when having Soul Ring buff

Happens when you need the Soul Ring's 150 mana for the Reincarnation.

Repro:

  1. Be Wraith King at low mana
  2. Use your Soul Ring so that you have enough mana with Reincarnation
  3. Die to Ice Blast's shatter

Result: Despite having enough mana, you do not reincarnate. You do reincarnate if the shatter was not the cause of the death (i.e. enemy just kill you straigh-out without the shatter proccing)

Video demo


9. Tempest Double's gold/xp bounties are not granted when it dies to Ice Blast shatter

Repro:

  1. Hit an enemy Tempest Double with Ice Blast
  2. Drop its health below the shatter threshold

Result: When it dies to the shatter, its gold/xp bounties are not granted. Its bounties are granted when the shatter was not the cause of the death (i.e. you kill it straight-out, without the shatter proccing).

Expected behavior: Gold and experience should be granted normally.

Video demo


10. Ice Blast (and False Promise) instantly remove hp gained through Granite Aura.

When you are at full hp and are affected by the ancient golem's Granite Aura, getting hit by Ice Blast instantly reduces your hp back to its regular value. Same goes for when getting targeted by False Promise.

Repro:

  1. Be at full or almost full hp and stand within Granite Aura range
  2. Get hit by Ice Blast or targeted by False Promise

Result: Your current hp instantly drops to what it would be if you were not affected by Granite Aura.

Expected behavior: Your current hp should freeze at where it is at, and not where it would be without the aura. The aura bonus should not be removed by Ice Blast/False Promise

Example: Let's say your hero has 1000 health by default. When the Granite Aura affects you, your health raises to 1150. When hit by Ice Blast/False Promise, your hp instantly drops from 1150/1150 to 1000/1150.

Video demo


11. Recasting Ice Blast makes the previous cast hit the new location

Your typical multi-instance bug. If you cast Ice Blast before the previous cast's projectile impacts, it messes with the previous projectile.

Repro:

  1. Cast Ice Blast and Release the icy ball
  2. Before the Icy ball impacts, re-cast Ice Blast at a new location

Result: The ice ball of the first cast explodes where you targeted the second Ice Blast (not where you stopped the 2nd cast's tracer, it literally explodes where you clicked with your mouse). It explodes there upon reaching its own marked area.

Expected behavior: A new cast should not interfere with previous casts. The previous Ice Blast should exlode where its aoe indicator is.

Yes, this is abusable, but not worth the Refresher Orb.

Video demo


12. AA illusions have lvl 1 Ice Blast when spawned while the sub-spell is active

ALT-clicking Ice Blast always says it's level 1 when done while the sub-spell is active

This happens because the sub-spell has only 1 level, instead of having 3 levels like the main spell.

Repro:

  1. Have Ice Blast on level 2 or 3
  2. Cast Ice Blast, but don't release the ice ball
  3. While the tracer travels, spawn illusions of Ancient Apparition
  4. Also ALT-click Ice Blast meanwhile

Result: The illus have level 1 Ice Blast, instead of 2/3. ALT-clicking it also says it's on level 1, instead of 2/3

Expected behavior: Illus should copy the correct level. ALT-clicking should also show the correct level. The sub-spell should have 3 levels like the main spell and its level should be set equal to Ice Blast's level.

Other spells with the same bug:

  • Tether
  • Nightmare
  • Telekinesis
  • Song of the Siren

Video demo


13. Ice Blast malfunctions when cast by an illusion and the illu dies during it

A very rare bug, but still a bug nontheless. When an illusion casts Ice Blast, and it dies during it (doesn't matter if while the tracer or the ice ball travels), the ice ball does nothing and the aoe indicator gets stuck

Repro:

  1. Pick Rubick and get Aghanim's Scepter
  2. Spell-steal Nether Swap
  3. Die, so that the Vengeance illusion spawns
  4. Spell-steal Ice Blast with the Vengeance Rubick illusion
  5. Cast Ice Blast
  6. While either of its projectiles travel, have the illusion die (no matter how)

Result: When dying while the tracer travels, the tracer stops and marks the area, and the ice ball gets released (expected behavior, since this is what happens when AA or Rubick die during it). However, the ice ball neither debuffs enemies it passes through, nor applies the impact damage/debuff upon reaching its destination. Furthermore, the giant dome marking the aoe gets permanently stuck.

Expected behavior: Same behavior as when AA or Rubick die during it: Ice ball can debuff enemies, impact damage/debuffing applies, giant aoe marking dome disappears once the ball explodes.

Video demo


submitted by /u/Bu3nyy
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"Press ALT show attack range" Option would be good thing.

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 02:43 AM PST

So as Templar Assassin i dont have to move 10 unit closer after pressing Meld just because the range is not enough. Also, noob friendly.

submitted by /u/arifshiddiq
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Hourly reminder that the best alt-voice pack in DotA is languishing in the Steam Workshop

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 11:12 PM PST

Manila Masters ticket information

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 03:06 AM PST

Mirana Statue unboxing!

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 06:24 PM PST

Get truesight for treant pls

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 05:48 PM PST

YapzOr you gotta stop, you've lost a game every hour

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 03:52 AM PST

BSJ Exposed by BSJ

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 09:50 PM PST

giff ti in Canada please Volvo

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 08:06 AM PST

please somewhere in Ontario or Quebec please. please.....!

submitted by /u/Kzumi
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'Each status buff of Decay increases Undying's model size by 2%'

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 06:55 PM PST

German Streamer with 21 Reports and a Behaviour Score of 1

Posted: 21 Feb 2017 07:15 AM PST

Arc Warden is below dead

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 11:08 PM PST

Ever since I started playing Dota 2 (which isn't even a year ago) I loved Arc Warden because of his looks and playstyle, he's quite an unique hero and can have many different items built on him depending on what role you want to go for. But ever since he came out, every new patched nerfed him in a way or another. His Q is useless in teamfights since it dispels when an enemy is nearby, his bubble used to be relevant in other cases than diving towers or fighting a sniper. His Spark Wraith is only good in the early game (why would you pick more damage as the level 25 talent, seriously that thing is such an unreliable nuke most of the time because it takes so much time to activate) And his Tempest Double has a long ass cooldown for barely any effect anymore since he barely lasts 20 seconds and doesn't even copy the rapier anymore. Seriously lord FrostToad, a few buffs to his Bubble and Ult or maybe even Flux would make him so much more useful. Hell he's so easily killed by one or two ganks he can't even recover like an Anti Mage would. He's only good at barely pushing, where did his carry potential go?

EDIT Seems like people really hate me for my arguments, cheese warden wasn't what I wanted to bring back. It may have seemed like so and I apologize if it did, I made this post early in the morning (I was tired and full of salt :v) and I can understand why he isn't as bad as I say. There's arguments and counter arguments and I've tried to read through most of them.

TL;DR of what I read: He can be good but is too easily countered and has a lot of other heroes that do the same job as him but way better in the current meta.

Sorry again if I seemed very very dumb, I'm still relatively new compared to all of you tryhards down here Kappa

submitted by /u/_Lemonsex_
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Saving Crystal Maiden

Posted: 20 Feb 2017 12:47 PM PST

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