PSA: Urn is no longer broken when being attacked under Oracle's False Promise buff.
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 11:56 AM PST
Previously if you were under the False Promise buff, salves, urns, clarities, etc. were interrupted when you were hit by enemy even though you haven't technically taken the damage yet. With the 7.00 change to consumables, that is no longer the case meaning Oracle can ult someone and urn them (even drop a purifying flames or two) and the target will x2 the heal from the urn (as well as other healing of course).
I'm a little hesitant to spread the knowledge because it's kind of OP imo, and as an Oracle player I want to take advantage of it before it gets nerfed. Anyway urn was a great item on Oracle before, but now it's absolutely core. I'll even buy one if someone else already has an urn on my team because it's that strong.
submitted by /u/Godot_12 I'm a little hesitant to spread the knowledge because it's kind of OP imo, and as an Oracle player I want to take advantage of it before it gets nerfed. Anyway urn was a great item on Oracle before, but now it's absolutely core. I'll even buy one if someone else already has an urn on my team because it's that strong.
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Oracle 7.00 Analysis
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 02:18 PM PST
I'm a proud Oracle spammer, and he used to be one of the best supports in the meta. But then he (rightfully) received his nerfs. He was still okay, but there's a lot to be left desired. He has a really swingy first few levels, but after that it's mostly the same as before.
However, with 7.00, all that has changed and I think he's the top support again. Here's why.
Urn and you
Alright, I'll put the biggest one here: Urn now applies through damage in false promise. Previously, Urn was dispelled if you would take damage from a player, even if that damage would be effectively 0 from reduction effects. However, in 7.00 Urn and consumables were changed to only be dispelled if you actually took a non-zero amount of damage after any reductions. Thus, this means that Urn is basically undispellable via damage during False Promise. Only actual dispels will remove it, such as Doom, Demonic Purge, Tornado, etc.
Frankly, this is huge. A level 1 False promise only lasts 7 seconds, but you'll still get at least 300 healing out of the urn if you use it immediately, which is doubled to 600. To put that in comparison, a flames combo will heal about 570 during promise. This means that you can save allies that were previously dead no matter what, and in some cases you can even toss the promise and urn onto somebody, and use your flames elsewhere. Oracle's weak point is that his healing combo only really works when he also has edict available, which means he has to be very careful who he uses it on, as enemies can switch targets. Before, you had to have mek to have this amount of burst heal without the combo.
A salve in the pocket goes a long way
You might have already guessed this, but consumables react the same way. If you have empty item slots early, try keeping a salve in one. If you get in danger, you can ult, salve and run or tp away for a similar heal to urn without using a charge.
Potentially also useful on bottle, but I'm not sure if that's too expensive or not yet. You can get about 500 hp out of all three charges.
Zoo Oracle
The new helm is actually pretty good on Oracle. Nearly every creep with an ability is useful in some way. Additionally, Oracle works great with creeps that either need a set up, or that can set up him. Centaur, Ursa, and Troll are the best. It's great for keeping tabs on an ally that you're not with. The stats are also great for Oracle. Additionally, it also incidentally helps with farming: you can split push with the creeps and even have an impact when you're dead. I'm not quite sure if it's an every game item or what order is best, but I've had great success getting it after urn if another member of my team is getting mekansm.
Shrines
Shrines are a great change for the hero. Due to the nerfs to flames, you're going to use a lot of mana early game to secure kills. Previously I was consuming 4-6 clarities every game to get my mana up. Now you can go to a shrine instead once or twice. Additionally, clarities are much better for him now because you can pull and farm jungle camps without worry of losing the buff.
Talents
Honestly, Oracle didn't mind losing the attribute bonus. There was no reason to ever get it early, and it didn't make much of a difference late game since you generally had enough mana and the health usually didn't make much of a difference since at that point you're dead if caught anyway. With the talents, this is overall a decent buff to Oracle.
Now, I'll list them out.
Respawn time vs XP Gain
Generally, I think the respawn time is more useful. By level 10, you're pretty set as Oracle. You've got your edict maxed, you've got your heal maxed, and you have promise. Yeah, level 2/3 Promise is pretty great, but I honestly don't think it's worth using a talent to maybe get it a minute or two earlier. His other talents are pretty good, but nothing necessarily game changing like other heroes. I would maybe consider it if I was heavily snowballing and I didn't expect to die more than once before finishing.
Health vs GPM
This is a pretty interesting choice, and is going to vary game by game. Now, keep in mind: if you get jumped on by some heroes, then 200 health may not save you. However, against certain aoe heavy lineups, it can be very useful since it lets you play a bit more freely. I think the extra GPM is generally going to be better because Oracle has issues farming. But the extra health definitely has a place and I'll surely be taking it some games.
Movement Speed vs Intelligence
In most situations, the extra movement speed is going to be more useful. By level 20, mana shouldn't be a concern. Most items you get will increase your mana anyways. Maybe if mid Oracle somehow becomes viable then the extra intelligence will be situational.
False Promise Duration vs Cast Range
I think that this choice is a little too flexible for me to really say one is generally better than the other. Both of these are great: false promise duration guarantees your ally will live longer. But on the other hand, aether lens has always been a fantastic item on the hero and potentially getting that without using an item slot is extremely useful, either allowing you to get more expensive items or have a ridiculous 470 extra range should you decide to get aether. I think this choice is heavily dependent on the game and it could go either way in a lot of situations.
Conclusion
Frankly, Oracle is going to be insanely strong this patch. The normal changes would have been enough, but the urn exploit is what makes him absurd. In fact, I fully expect it to be patched out at some point. But even if that does happen, he's still in a great spot.
submitted by /u/ajdeemo However, with 7.00, all that has changed and I think he's the top support again. Here's why.
Urn and you
Alright, I'll put the biggest one here: Urn now applies through damage in false promise. Previously, Urn was dispelled if you would take damage from a player, even if that damage would be effectively 0 from reduction effects. However, in 7.00 Urn and consumables were changed to only be dispelled if you actually took a non-zero amount of damage after any reductions. Thus, this means that Urn is basically undispellable via damage during False Promise. Only actual dispels will remove it, such as Doom, Demonic Purge, Tornado, etc.
Frankly, this is huge. A level 1 False promise only lasts 7 seconds, but you'll still get at least 300 healing out of the urn if you use it immediately, which is doubled to 600. To put that in comparison, a flames combo will heal about 570 during promise. This means that you can save allies that were previously dead no matter what, and in some cases you can even toss the promise and urn onto somebody, and use your flames elsewhere. Oracle's weak point is that his healing combo only really works when he also has edict available, which means he has to be very careful who he uses it on, as enemies can switch targets. Before, you had to have mek to have this amount of burst heal without the combo.
A salve in the pocket goes a long way
You might have already guessed this, but consumables react the same way. If you have empty item slots early, try keeping a salve in one. If you get in danger, you can ult, salve and run or tp away for a similar heal to urn without using a charge.
Potentially also useful on bottle, but I'm not sure if that's too expensive or not yet. You can get about 500 hp out of all three charges.
Zoo Oracle
The new helm is actually pretty good on Oracle. Nearly every creep with an ability is useful in some way. Additionally, Oracle works great with creeps that either need a set up, or that can set up him. Centaur, Ursa, and Troll are the best. It's great for keeping tabs on an ally that you're not with. The stats are also great for Oracle. Additionally, it also incidentally helps with farming: you can split push with the creeps and even have an impact when you're dead. I'm not quite sure if it's an every game item or what order is best, but I've had great success getting it after urn if another member of my team is getting mekansm.
Shrines
Shrines are a great change for the hero. Due to the nerfs to flames, you're going to use a lot of mana early game to secure kills. Previously I was consuming 4-6 clarities every game to get my mana up. Now you can go to a shrine instead once or twice. Additionally, clarities are much better for him now because you can pull and farm jungle camps without worry of losing the buff.
Talents
Honestly, Oracle didn't mind losing the attribute bonus. There was no reason to ever get it early, and it didn't make much of a difference late game since you generally had enough mana and the health usually didn't make much of a difference since at that point you're dead if caught anyway. With the talents, this is overall a decent buff to Oracle.
Now, I'll list them out.
Respawn time vs XP Gain
Generally, I think the respawn time is more useful. By level 10, you're pretty set as Oracle. You've got your edict maxed, you've got your heal maxed, and you have promise. Yeah, level 2/3 Promise is pretty great, but I honestly don't think it's worth using a talent to maybe get it a minute or two earlier. His other talents are pretty good, but nothing necessarily game changing like other heroes. I would maybe consider it if I was heavily snowballing and I didn't expect to die more than once before finishing.
Health vs GPM
This is a pretty interesting choice, and is going to vary game by game. Now, keep in mind: if you get jumped on by some heroes, then 200 health may not save you. However, against certain aoe heavy lineups, it can be very useful since it lets you play a bit more freely. I think the extra GPM is generally going to be better because Oracle has issues farming. But the extra health definitely has a place and I'll surely be taking it some games.
Movement Speed vs Intelligence
In most situations, the extra movement speed is going to be more useful. By level 20, mana shouldn't be a concern. Most items you get will increase your mana anyways. Maybe if mid Oracle somehow becomes viable then the extra intelligence will be situational.
False Promise Duration vs Cast Range
I think that this choice is a little too flexible for me to really say one is generally better than the other. Both of these are great: false promise duration guarantees your ally will live longer. But on the other hand, aether lens has always been a fantastic item on the hero and potentially getting that without using an item slot is extremely useful, either allowing you to get more expensive items or have a ridiculous 470 extra range should you decide to get aether. I think this choice is heavily dependent on the game and it could go either way in a lot of situations.
Conclusion
Frankly, Oracle is going to be insanely strong this patch. The normal changes would have been enough, but the urn exploit is what makes him absurd. In fact, I fully expect it to be patched out at some point. But even if that does happen, he's still in a great spot.
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How far are we in terms of balance of getting rid of all UAM?
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 06:45 AM PST
I can't wait until we get rid of all UAM, but maybe there is a balance reason that I'm missing.
submitted by /u/HAWGT [link] [comments]
A question about fog of war
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 07:24 PM PST
Can the enemy see me if I can see them and we are both in the low ground with no creeps or anything(and we have the same vision)?
Any other tricks in the fog of war that I should know to help me get better when ganking or being sneaky
Thanks for answering
submitted by /u/Stuck666 Any other tricks in the fog of war that I should know to help me get better when ganking or being sneaky
Thanks for answering
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Underlord 7.00 discussion
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 02:55 PM PST
I had a quick question regarding how you guys play underlord given the changes to the hero in 7.00
Heres a quick recap:
•Added to Captains Mode •Pit of Malice no longer pierces Spell Immunity. •Pit of Malice no longer interrupts. •Pit of Malice no longer deals damage. •Pit of Malice root duration reduced from 1/1.5/2/2.5 to 0.9/1.2/1.5/1.8 •Pit of Malice now affects units every 3.5 seconds. •Pit of Malice duration increased from 7 to 12 •Pit of Malice radius increased from 275 to 375 •Pit of Malice cast point reduced from 0.6 to 0.45 •Pit of Malice cooldown increased from 21/18/15/12 to 30/26/22/18 •Dark Rift radius increased from 450 to 600 •Dark Rift delay increased from 5/4/3 to 6/5/4 Level 10: +4 Armor OR +2 Mana Regen Level 15: +200 Health OR +8% Spell Amplification Level 20: +50 Attack Speed OR +100 Cast Range Level 25: +0.4s Pit of Malice Root OR +50 Health Regen
Initial impressions for me are positive. The changes to pit of malice don't seem overdone, I find that many players who aren't used to the changes tend to catch themselves in the pit multiple times and die as a result. He still feels soo tanky in the offlane. I (low 4k) find myself getting fast levels on him spamming his Q, and have been taking the +attack speed at level 20 to ramp up for those final game winning items (Lotus Orb, shivas depending).
I noticed by dotabuff lots of players still opting to max pit of malice 2nd and just get one value point in the aura. but I find myself personally getting a value point in pit only until I have 2 or 3 points in aura. The pit duration is only .3 seconds longer, and obviously it can trigger multiple times now but I cant help but think I feel much stronger manfighting in my lane with the aura which is giving me higher value, and allows me to pick up that faster mek and GGreaves with my enhanced farming capabilities.
Additionally, I recently watched some pro games, and I saw DC.moon using him in game 1 against newbee in the China Top tournament. They made a cheeky play where they disengaged with dark rift directly to the shrine and reengaged right away, which I thought was a great move and obviously reflects underlord's strength with the new map changes.
I've been running him in the offlane and generally am going Arcanes, Mek, GG, Pipe/Crimson, Situational (Lotus, Blademail, Force Staff, Shiva's). Any other tips, ideas, comments regarding the changes or his fit in the new style?
submitted by /u/HXCpolarbear Heres a quick recap:
•Added to Captains Mode •Pit of Malice no longer pierces Spell Immunity. •Pit of Malice no longer interrupts. •Pit of Malice no longer deals damage. •Pit of Malice root duration reduced from 1/1.5/2/2.5 to 0.9/1.2/1.5/1.8 •Pit of Malice now affects units every 3.5 seconds. •Pit of Malice duration increased from 7 to 12 •Pit of Malice radius increased from 275 to 375 •Pit of Malice cast point reduced from 0.6 to 0.45 •Pit of Malice cooldown increased from 21/18/15/12 to 30/26/22/18 •Dark Rift radius increased from 450 to 600 •Dark Rift delay increased from 5/4/3 to 6/5/4 Level 10: +4 Armor OR +2 Mana Regen Level 15: +200 Health OR +8% Spell Amplification Level 20: +50 Attack Speed OR +100 Cast Range Level 25: +0.4s Pit of Malice Root OR +50 Health Regen
Initial impressions for me are positive. The changes to pit of malice don't seem overdone, I find that many players who aren't used to the changes tend to catch themselves in the pit multiple times and die as a result. He still feels soo tanky in the offlane. I (low 4k) find myself getting fast levels on him spamming his Q, and have been taking the +attack speed at level 20 to ramp up for those final game winning items (Lotus Orb, shivas depending).
I noticed by dotabuff lots of players still opting to max pit of malice 2nd and just get one value point in the aura. but I find myself personally getting a value point in pit only until I have 2 or 3 points in aura. The pit duration is only .3 seconds longer, and obviously it can trigger multiple times now but I cant help but think I feel much stronger manfighting in my lane with the aura which is giving me higher value, and allows me to pick up that faster mek and GGreaves with my enhanced farming capabilities.
Additionally, I recently watched some pro games, and I saw DC.moon using him in game 1 against newbee in the China Top tournament. They made a cheeky play where they disengaged with dark rift directly to the shrine and reengaged right away, which I thought was a great move and obviously reflects underlord's strength with the new map changes.
I've been running him in the offlane and generally am going Arcanes, Mek, GG, Pipe/Crimson, Situational (Lotus, Blademail, Force Staff, Shiva's). Any other tips, ideas, comments regarding the changes or his fit in the new style?
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Queen of pain level 25 trait
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 06:38 PM PST
With level 25 Queen of Pain gets 80% spell lifesteal. With radiance she is almost unkillable. Add in a blademail and she heals as much damage as she takes.
I think a mjollnir, radiance, blademail, shivas type build makes her an insane lategame core that is incredibly survivable like alchemist on steroids.
Side note: how does octarine stack with the trait
submitted by /u/Caderrific I think a mjollnir, radiance, blademail, shivas type build makes her an insane lategame core that is incredibly survivable like alchemist on steroids.
Side note: how does octarine stack with the trait
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7.00 - New hero/item combinations
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 09:24 AM PST
What are some good hero/item combinations that you've noticed this patch? I'll start with mine:
I recently tried this in some games and boy, does it feel right. +15 str and + 15 agility on a squishy hero are great. Add onto that the attack speed that Illusions now gain from items and it's already starting to fit quite well into PL's arsenal. And as the icing on the cake, invisibility and increased MS for an already slippery hero and a way to apply Break? It almost feels too strong, gives you a really cheap way of dealing with heroes like PA and allows for some really consistent escapes. AFAIK you can activate invisibility during doppleganger, making it much harder to deal with you with just a little dust (needs testing though).
I haven't tried this but thinking about it this could be an amazing pickup between soul ring and bloodstone if things aren't going to well (or just in general). Health and intelligence are two things Timber loves, and on top of that you now have a 1000 range setup for your Chakram + chain + whirling death combo, consistently and easily bringing enemies down to half health. Thoughts?.
Any other suggestions? Post them here and I'll add them to the OP!
submitted by /u/styke Phantom Lancer
Shadow Blade/Silver EdgeI recently tried this in some games and boy, does it feel right. +15 str and + 15 agility on a squishy hero are great. Add onto that the attack speed that Illusions now gain from items and it's already starting to fit quite well into PL's arsenal. And as the icing on the cake, invisibility and increased MS for an already slippery hero and a way to apply Break? It almost feels too strong, gives you a really cheap way of dealing with heroes like PA and allows for some really consistent escapes. AFAIK you can activate invisibility during doppleganger, making it much harder to deal with you with just a little dust (needs testing though).
Timbersaw
Rod of atosI haven't tried this but thinking about it this could be an amazing pickup between soul ring and bloodstone if things aren't going to well (or just in general). Health and intelligence are two things Timber loves, and on top of that you now have a 1000 range setup for your Chakram + chain + whirling death combo, consistently and easily bringing enemies down to half health. Thoughts?.
Any other suggestions? Post them here and I'll add them to the OP!
[link] [comments]
MoM tiny
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 04:17 PM PST
with the changes it seems pretty good, with ur E the minus armor is negligable and th silence lasts exactly as long as the shortest cd in your combo. so blink combo -> MoM and then ou have toss back up. it seems like it would be better than ech, cuz sustin better dps and movement speed. thoghts ? id probably do a blink mom into aghs or smthing
submitted by /u/TheHappyWhale [link] [comments]
My thoughts on Lina 7.00
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 08:30 AM PST
She has not seen an increase in win rate on Dotabuff since the introduction of 7.00 (my opinion due to most people actually suck at playing her), but I'm liking her new talents a lot. She gets +250 at level 10 to compensate her high mana usage (I go +20 damage tho as I always max fiery soul before lsa), +100 cast range which is good enough to ignore aether lens, +150 attack range for that free dragon lance, and finally 4 fiery soul max stacks which is extra 340 attack speed and 32% movement speed and that makes her stronger than a lot of traditional carries with the right itemization.
I've played 3 games only on her so far but in an aggressive fighting meta like this where you have spammable aoe spells, superior attack range and high damage output I expect to see her back in the spotlight again. Her laning sustain is also buffed a lot with the shrines and clarities that can't be cancelled. Plus she's insanely good against visage. What are your opinions?
submitted by /u/Hyeri_0609 I've played 3 games only on her so far but in an aggressive fighting meta like this where you have spammable aoe spells, superior attack range and high damage output I expect to see her back in the spotlight again. Her laning sustain is also buffed a lot with the shrines and clarities that can't be cancelled. Plus she's insanely good against visage. What are your opinions?
[link] [comments]
Blood seeker 7.00 build?
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 07:38 AM PST
I really enjoy this hero, but sometimes am unsure what to buy, I usually go phase into echo saves, followed by mjollnir (farming)/Sange and Yasha (fighting)/silver edge (roaming). Is this build alright or are there better alternatives?
submitted by /u/Crooked_Shillary [link] [comments]
Suicide Bag QoP
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 09:11 AM PST
The build geos something like this-treads wand bottle midas?/veil-euls-radiance-blademail-octarine-mjollnir-shivas. I know this sounds ridiculous but with spell lifesteal you heal an OBSCENE amount and you just wreck fights with your sustainability and aoe damage.
Presently msot pros are going veil-linkens-shivas-octarine-blademail-mjollnir and perhaps this is the more consistent build, but the radiance build gives you ridiculous suciide bag potential in fights (even though you won't die cause of the obscene lifesteal)
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2855086139 https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2858271128
few games at fairly low mmr (im 4k but i was playing in a party at lower mmr)
probably not the best transitional build but level 25 QoP is ridiculously good now I think
submitted by /u/PandaMan_GG Presently msot pros are going veil-linkens-shivas-octarine-blademail-mjollnir and perhaps this is the more consistent build, but the radiance build gives you ridiculous suciide bag potential in fights (even though you won't die cause of the obscene lifesteal)
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2855086139 https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2858271128
few games at fairly low mmr (im 4k but i was playing in a party at lower mmr)
probably not the best transitional build but level 25 QoP is ridiculously good now I think
[link] [comments]
Necroboss 7.00
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 05:24 AM PST
Let's discuss this hero as I feel like he is going to make a big resurgence soon. For example, Badman has been spamming him since the patch for a 70% winrate.
A few things I want to discuss:
Viable positions
Badman is putting him the safelane. Personally, I've had very good success (100%, but Im not 8.5k mmr) with him in the offlane now that he has an escape mechanism. Of course, I am still seeing some support necrophos and being able to survive that much longer with Ghost Shroud is working out well enough for them, I just prefer supports with slows and stuns. With so much lane sustain, harass and an "escape" could he be a viable mid? What do you think is his most suitable position?
Interactions
I haven't tested it and I can't right now, but do heals from allies heal for +50% while using Ghost Shroud? Badman had Warlock supporting him in lane, seems very powerful if it does do the increased healing. Do healing salves also heal for the extra amount too? AM jumps on you and gets you to 10%, Shroud and Salve right back up again! Urn is sounding pretty great.
Itemization
Everyone is talking about the 25 second CD Aghs. But I've actually not seen many people pick it up, and personally I haven't either. What do you guys think about it? I've been mostly picking Necro against MK and other right-clickers so usually going Shivas. I went Greaves a couple of games, mostly for the dispel against silence. Octarine seems pretty much core now. Blademail is really nice to deter attackers. What do people think about Eblade? Double duration Ethereal form and the potential for Eblade into Reaper's Scythe. I even picked up Hurricane Pike one game. Seems like there are a lot of options for him.
Partners/Counters
Every time I see a Monkey King, I'm picking Necrophos. So far I have 100% winrate against him. What other heroes do you think he'd be an excellent pick against? I had a lot of fun with a Dazzle on my team, pretty much unkillable with Shallow Grave. What heroes do you think would be a big problem for Necrophos? I played against a Skywrath which was troublesome, Ghost Shroud only amps his damage and silences are pretty hard to Necro before GGreaves. I assume Oracle can dispel Ghost Shroud and of course has 2 ways to save against Reaper's Scythe.
submitted by /u/Khuraji A few things I want to discuss:
Viable positions
Badman is putting him the safelane. Personally, I've had very good success (100%, but Im not 8.5k mmr) with him in the offlane now that he has an escape mechanism. Of course, I am still seeing some support necrophos and being able to survive that much longer with Ghost Shroud is working out well enough for them, I just prefer supports with slows and stuns. With so much lane sustain, harass and an "escape" could he be a viable mid? What do you think is his most suitable position?
Interactions
I haven't tested it and I can't right now, but do heals from allies heal for +50% while using Ghost Shroud? Badman had Warlock supporting him in lane, seems very powerful if it does do the increased healing. Do healing salves also heal for the extra amount too? AM jumps on you and gets you to 10%, Shroud and Salve right back up again! Urn is sounding pretty great.
Itemization
Everyone is talking about the 25 second CD Aghs. But I've actually not seen many people pick it up, and personally I haven't either. What do you guys think about it? I've been mostly picking Necro against MK and other right-clickers so usually going Shivas. I went Greaves a couple of games, mostly for the dispel against silence. Octarine seems pretty much core now. Blademail is really nice to deter attackers. What do people think about Eblade? Double duration Ethereal form and the potential for Eblade into Reaper's Scythe. I even picked up Hurricane Pike one game. Seems like there are a lot of options for him.
Partners/Counters
Every time I see a Monkey King, I'm picking Necrophos. So far I have 100% winrate against him. What other heroes do you think he'd be an excellent pick against? I had a lot of fun with a Dazzle on my team, pretty much unkillable with Shallow Grave. What heroes do you think would be a big problem for Necrophos? I played against a Skywrath which was troublesome, Ghost Shroud only amps his damage and silences are pretty hard to Necro before GGreaves. I assume Oracle can dispel Ghost Shroud and of course has 2 ways to save against Reaper's Scythe.
[link] [comments]
Is Monkey King OP?
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 10:23 AM PST
Everysays Monkey King is an OP hero but reallly while he's strong I haven't struggled against him, his Winrate in just below 50% and I feel if you shut him down in lane he's pretty useless.
In Lane he's like a Huskar who has escape, he can just win if you let him keep right clicking you but if you gank or just contest him decently early he has very little catch-up potential.
I feel his carry potential is a mix between CK and Slark, if you let him pick of your squishy supports when their alone one by one he will snowball and soon be crushing your carries, but a CK in the way he can have insane DPS with his ult but the ult can be avoided and unless he farms heroes most other carries out farm him.
His only real "OP" thing is that he's like a lot of snowbally carries but with escape, he's weak to dot and if you have heroes like Bat, Storm, Timber, BM and many other who are very strong this meta, he can be dealt with even when he's snowballing.
submitted by /u/DarthyTMC In Lane he's like a Huskar who has escape, he can just win if you let him keep right clicking you but if you gank or just contest him decently early he has very little catch-up potential.
I feel his carry potential is a mix between CK and Slark, if you let him pick of your squishy supports when their alone one by one he will snowball and soon be crushing your carries, but a CK in the way he can have insane DPS with his ult but the ult can be avoided and unless he farms heroes most other carries out farm him.
His only real "OP" thing is that he's like a lot of snowbally carries but with escape, he's weak to dot and if you have heroes like Bat, Storm, Timber, BM and many other who are very strong this meta, he can be dealt with even when he's snowballing.
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How are we playing Lycan in 7.00?
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 05:51 PM PST
The item build seems the same, but what about abilities? Good pairings with teammates? How do you play him in each phase of the game?
submitted by /u/Chompston [link] [comments]
Helm of the Dominator and Ancients changes
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 03:45 PM PST
Given that helm of the dominator is no longer tied to lifesteal and gives a strong regen and attack speed aura, and Ancients are no longer magic immune(and their are 2 ancient camps it opens up HoD to be a better pick up for heroes like Storm Spirit, Lina, Leshrac, Queen of pain, Batrider, Bristleback, Dark seer, etc. To stack ancient camps and clear them with spells. Imagine a early HoD pickup and then stacking both ancient camps, 1 with your hero and 1 with the creep, then going to get the rune.
submitted by /u/Caderrific [link] [comments]
The Tick Tock Support/roamer meta.
Posted: 18 Dec 2016 10:03 PM PST
Obviously roamers got massively buffed with lots of bounty runes spawning every even minute, hard right click carries got nerfed with removal of +attribute bonus and jungle spawning every odd minute only.
It's lead to what I'll call the Tick Tock system for roamers
Windup
The start of the game is setting the pace your team will be split at least 4/1 if not 3/2 to get your own two bounty runes. You're better off trying to get some early vision or smoke and ganking the enemy's bounty if you can. If you can claim 3 out of 4 that's a nice gold boost for your team. It's also during this start up phase to get down your wards. There's a lot of targets to ward now, but warding the enemy shrines gives you a lot of information. The reason to ward shrines is it gives you the best information about when to go hard for a gank/fight and make it effective. If the enemy shrine(s) are on CD when you fight, then any survivors are going back to base.
Tick (times between X:30 and X+1:30) where X is even
Starting at minute 0:30 and at 1 minute creep camps spawn, in Tick phases you want to be in your own jungle stacking. Building up some gold and XP to be taken with your team later. Take a camp, stack another then after you've stacked it smoke and move out to the Tock phase
Tock (between X:30 and X+1:30) where X is odd
Between 1:00 and 3:00 there is not much that can be achieved in your own jungle, there's only runes that spawn at 2:00, no camps to be stacked until 3:00. So get out of your jungle and into the enemy's horizontal lane (forgoing use of safe/off because that definition is still up in the air). You can claim the rune in your own jungles easily enough later (or your mid/off/safe laner can pick them up). What you want to do is to invade the enemy jungle. If they are greedy and have been stacking and not clearing, you can find that out. Use this phase to steal enemy runes, block attempts at stacking, ward, gank, force rotations. The minimum goal in a Tock phase should be to get the enemy to use one of their shrines (and for you to know it's been used so you can track it's CD)
Notes
Obviously you're not going to alternate between your jungle and theirs every 2 minutes, that's a whole lot of time walking around and not getting XP/Gold. But the idea is that as a support/roamer you look at what phase you're in or is coming up as to what you should probably be trying to do. Basically in a Tick phase people are going to be stacking, in a Tock phase they are going for runes and ganking. The game is more complex than that based on draft, heroes etc. Every 3 Tick-Tock cycles, shrines come off CD so it's around those that you want to fight. It's a simplified system that abstracts a lot of the game but it's helpful, because you can look at the clock and go, ok, this is where I am and what phase it is, so this is the best thing for me to be doing right now if you're not with your team or have other objectives in mind.
submitted by /u/Fireslide It's lead to what I'll call the Tick Tock system for roamers
Windup
The start of the game is setting the pace your team will be split at least 4/1 if not 3/2 to get your own two bounty runes. You're better off trying to get some early vision or smoke and ganking the enemy's bounty if you can. If you can claim 3 out of 4 that's a nice gold boost for your team. It's also during this start up phase to get down your wards. There's a lot of targets to ward now, but warding the enemy shrines gives you a lot of information. The reason to ward shrines is it gives you the best information about when to go hard for a gank/fight and make it effective. If the enemy shrine(s) are on CD when you fight, then any survivors are going back to base.
Tick (times between X:30 and X+1:30) where X is even
Starting at minute 0:30 and at 1 minute creep camps spawn, in Tick phases you want to be in your own jungle stacking. Building up some gold and XP to be taken with your team later. Take a camp, stack another then after you've stacked it smoke and move out to the Tock phase
Tock (between X:30 and X+1:30) where X is odd
Between 1:00 and 3:00 there is not much that can be achieved in your own jungle, there's only runes that spawn at 2:00, no camps to be stacked until 3:00. So get out of your jungle and into the enemy's horizontal lane (forgoing use of safe/off because that definition is still up in the air). You can claim the rune in your own jungles easily enough later (or your mid/off/safe laner can pick them up). What you want to do is to invade the enemy jungle. If they are greedy and have been stacking and not clearing, you can find that out. Use this phase to steal enemy runes, block attempts at stacking, ward, gank, force rotations. The minimum goal in a Tock phase should be to get the enemy to use one of their shrines (and for you to know it's been used so you can track it's CD)
Notes
Obviously you're not going to alternate between your jungle and theirs every 2 minutes, that's a whole lot of time walking around and not getting XP/Gold. But the idea is that as a support/roamer you look at what phase you're in or is coming up as to what you should probably be trying to do. Basically in a Tick phase people are going to be stacking, in a Tock phase they are going for runes and ganking. The game is more complex than that based on draft, heroes etc. Every 3 Tick-Tock cycles, shrines come off CD so it's around those that you want to fight. It's a simplified system that abstracts a lot of the game but it's helpful, because you can look at the clock and go, ok, this is where I am and what phase it is, so this is the best thing for me to be doing right now if you're not with your team or have other objectives in mind.
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Quelling blade/iron talon not working on illusions?
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 01:30 AM PST
I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but I've just tested it in a lobby and illusions don't benefit from quelling blade or iron talon. Seemingly, illusions only get the bonus damage from battlefury now. I seem to remember them getting the bonus in the past. Does anyone know if this was explicitly mentioned in a previous patch or if it's new to this?
Really makes me value qb/irontalon on heroes like terrorblade/naga a whole lot less.
submitted by /u/heealdo Really makes me value qb/irontalon on heroes like terrorblade/naga a whole lot less.
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What do you guys think of building Ember Spirit around magic damage?(no bf)
Posted: 18 Dec 2016 09:07 PM PST
I am experimenting with Ember Spirit a little this patch. I've found that, while situational, Ember built around magic damage seems unexpectedly effective. If you get the %15 spell amp talent and veil, he gets a crazy AoE burst. I don't exactly know how 2 effects stack but at level 3 remnant(after 25% magic resistance) hits for 336 instead of 233 . That's an easy to hit 1008 AoE damage with a large radius in an instant(also add 150-200 damage from SoF on top of that). Additionally, he gets nearly 100% uptime on chains at level 25 which can be hit from 1320 range with SoF+lens.
My experimental build follows as pms>bottle>wand>veil>phase boots(or BoT)>blink>octarine>aether lens
At level 12, he does somewhere around 1400 damage(mostly AoE) in 3 seconds with only veil and the best thing is, the combo requires no setup(SoF into chains and then remnant bomb). He can still delete anyone even when underfarmed. I think especially if you get a bad start, instead building bf, this build can be more effective, since the conventional build struggles so much if he is behind.
Edit: After reading some replies I think veil should replace aquilla or drums but as others have said blink and lens don't look that useful compared to other items.
What do you guys think? I feel like depending on the game, magic damage ember can be very strong. He has incredible AoE burst with just veil, has permanent root at 25, has mobility because of remnants and can farm with flame guard.
submitted by /u/disneyjams My experimental build follows as pms>bottle>wand>veil>phase boots(or BoT)>blink>octarine>aether lens
At level 12, he does somewhere around 1400 damage(mostly AoE) in 3 seconds with only veil and the best thing is, the combo requires no setup(SoF into chains and then remnant bomb). He can still delete anyone even when underfarmed. I think especially if you get a bad start, instead building bf, this build can be more effective, since the conventional build struggles so much if he is behind.
Edit: After reading some replies I think veil should replace aquilla or drums but as others have said blink and lens don't look that useful compared to other items.
What do you guys think? I feel like depending on the game, magic damage ember can be very strong. He has incredible AoE burst with just veil, has permanent root at 25, has mobility because of remnants and can farm with flame guard.
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How does Centaur fit into 7.00?
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 12:43 AM PST
I've been told the current meta has been more fight-oriented and was wondering with the new bounty runes, the sanctuary, is he still a viable mid-game ganking hero? His talent tree is okay, but I don't think it's too overpowered.
Usually play him offlane, get Tranquils, rush Blink, then typical tank or aoe items.
submitted by /u/MacOSThroe Usually play him offlane, get Tranquils, rush Blink, then typical tank or aoe items.
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Theorycrafter to join me?
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 04:58 AM PST
Hey! I am passionate dota player with 6k mmr and I would like to get joined by some theorycrafters who would like to find out some nice shit and get stuff together with me and maybe even write a guide or make some videos?
plesae hit me up with messages! thanks
submitted by /u/kasraen plesae hit me up with messages! thanks
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Outworld Devourer Item Build
Posted: 19 Dec 2016 12:56 AM PST
Now that Skadi and Mjollnir are no longer UAMs, will they stack with Arcane Orb?
If they do, does this change OD's item build in anyway, or is the current build better still?
submitted by /u/Malice_DOTA2 If they do, does this change OD's item build in anyway, or is the current build better still?
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