[2.4.3] Hellcat Waistguard Theorycrafting and my Guides for S9
Posted: 22 Dec 2016 05:06 PM PST
Hey everyone,
in the recent weeks I've been testing the new DH builds made possible by the reworked Hellcat Waistguard and also dived a little bit more into the belt's mechanics as well. I did some tests on the PTR to find out more about how everything works, which is probably worth knowing for everyone who wants to take his grenade builds seriously. Since we are quite late in the PTR cycle and DH seems to be in a okay spot, I doubt we will see many, if any, changes here anymore.
I did a total of 5 different tests. First, nailing down the damage behavior of the procs, second, recording the average hit chances of bouncing grenades on a stationary target, third, validating proc chances by skill, fourth, counting some kill times with different belt rolls, and fifth, exploring the Buriza mechanics with grenades and the belt.
Here is a screenshot of my sheet for the first test:
http://puu.sh/sPq6a/ac2b1171f2.png
My base damage is 56 without the belt equipped, using Grenade - Tinkerer. If I equip the belt, my "base" attacks will go up by 50% to 84 already, meaning the initial attack aready counts as a bounce. The following bounces each add 50%, and the last one will deal 800% total, not 100% + 800% = 900% as the wording on the belt could suggest ("... dealing an additional 50% damage on each bounce / This bonus is increased to 800% on the final bounce"). This means the total damage with all grenades hitting are 1700% (5 affix), 1400% (4 affix) and 1150% (3 affix), respectively.
On my next test, I took a stationary target (Hellbringers in A3) and did 200 casts with each possible belt affix, counting the procs as well as how many times each separate bounce would hit the target. This test was done with the Grenadier passive equipped. Here is a screenshot:
http://puu.sh/sPqJ7/15271774e4.png
It seems likely that the differences in proc chances are only due to statistical errors, and the real proc chance is probably precisely 50% (also tested more thoroughly below).
It is worth noting that Hellbringers have a rather large hitbox, which rivals that of only the biggest monsters (not counting RGs). Interestingly, the damage share of the initial attack is rather high, around 20-27%. But as you can see on the numbers, especially for the belts with 4 and 5 affix, hitting a target more than twice is rather uncommon. The third, fourth and fifth hits all have average hit chances of below 50%, going as low as 28%. Obviously the numbers go down as the count in bounces increases, as the grenades have a higher chance of jumping somewhere outside of the initial attack area.
Looking at the numbers for only the last and most important bounce for each affix, you can see that the "big" explosion at the end doesn't even do that much for the 5-belt, with only 32% of the total damage done (as opposed to the possible 47% if we had 100% hit chance). Same for the 4-belt, where it is 40% (possible 57%), and only for the 3-belt we have some good numbers here, with 59% of the total damage (69% if we had 100% hit chance).
This result is very interesting because it suggests that the "bad" rolls on the bad are actually not that bad, and might in fact be better than a good roll in some cases. Of course the potential is much higher with a 5-belt, however the average chances of hitting the right targets (or anything at all) are very low for the strong, late explosions, while you get those much more consistently with a low affix. More importantly, bouncing grenades disappear as soon as they hit an obstacle or a wall. This test was done in an open area with no obstacles around, however in a GR, even in good map layouts (excluding most of arreat crater, perhaps), we have walls and obstacles everywhere, and grenades will disappear often before they can fully finish their bounces, favoring a lower affix on the belt. On top of that, you have to consider that for high GR pushing, the ideal playstyle is to surround elites with a lot of trash in order to nuke them down with area damage. With the high-affix belts, the grenades can be expected to do the opposite, i.e. jumping out of the center and killing all the small targets outside, leaving you with nothing but the high hp targets and no area damage to kill them. Based on my limited GR testing on the PTR it seems like there is a chance that people will prioritize lower rolls on their belts for certain builds. For speed farm (torment) builds specifically, you might want to run with a low belt anyway, simply because it takes a long time for all the bounces to happen in the first place.
This incosistent bouncing behavior is generally not so bad for skills like Cluster Arrow - Cluster Bombs or Grenade - Cluster Grenades, because those don't jump so far or just hit a large area in general. However, for Rain of Vengeance - Anathema, Strafe - Demolition or Grenade - Grenade Cache the difference is definitely noticeable and you can see that very often you won't hit your targets with your last explosions. I think overall higher belt affixes will still win out (especially when we consider GR fishing for big density), however probably not by as much as one could think without looking more closely.
My next test was just a confirmation of proc chances by skill. I equipped all the relevant grenade skills and counted how many times I saw a proc. It was rather difficult to do for RoV, so I only did 5 casts, watching them in ultra slow motion a couple times and counting the hits / nonhits until I felt I caught most of them. It seems like the belt has 50% proc chance across the board, independent of skill and belt affix roll:
http://puu.sh/sPrVK/fab7166933.png
Based on my findings about the low affix rolls, I went on to a field-test killing a big target in a rather open area (Ghom) and a small target in a very confined area (skinny a1 zombie near Adria's hut), counting the seconds for a kill.
http://puu.sh/sTb9h/c7afd96fa6.png
It's only a small sample size, but it indicates that indeed the lower belts might not be so bad, especially on small targets and in areas where grenades tend to bounce against obstacles. Note that this test was done with Grenade - Grenade Cache, which probably has the highest bounciness of all grenades. It's also interesting that despite the highest average kill time, the fastest kill by far was done with the lower belt, too (on zombie target). Right now I would say that the (5) belt is probably going to be the best on average if you intend to use it for fishing good maps and big density, and a (3) belt is probably best used for fast farm runs (torments and low GRs), where we have to fight in all kinds of small corridors and also want to deal the big damage as fast as possible (however only if you intend to basically oneshot stuff with a proc). Unfortunately it is rather difficult to acquire reliable data on this, so I can only go with my gut feeling here.
My last test was done with Buriza cubed, to see its behavior with grenades:
http://puu.sh/sTbt1/fe549a53d8.png
This screenshot doesn't show much more than that the extra grenades are also working with the belt, as expected. What it doesn't show is that the Buriza is actually quite difficult to proc, and it has something to do with how many targets are present and how they are distributed locally. It seems you need at least two targets and get the best results if you have a second (or more) target in a straight line right behind the first mob you hit with your grenades, which will make Buriza proc for additional damage. Here is a little indication of what I mean:
http://puu.sh/sYbQX/f3417aabf8.png
This is only really relevant for the UE generator build, though, and keep in mind that Buriza still has an ICD of ~33 frames (so you can only get a proc on every second attack).
TL;DR: Hellcat Waistguard gives us many new builds, especially for solo DH. The proc chance seems to be 50% across the board. Some of the grenade skills we have are quite bouncy, making the juicy late bounces more difficult to unfold their potential when they jump out of a pull or against an obstacle and disappear. A low roll on the belt does not necessarily mean it's bad, especially for RoV - Anathema, Strafe - Demolition or Grenade - Grenade Cache and speedfarm builds in general. Buriza works for grenades but is difficult to proc, because it depends on your and your target's positioning.
Now that we're through with all of this, I also want to present you my guides for next patch. They are all aimed at pushing solo, and with this new belt we actually have a couple very competitive builds now. Personally, I will probably play Marauder's for pushing next season. I will add some numbers to each build to give you an idea of what I would expect this to clear with ~1000-1400 paragon, good item rolls, augments and maybe 100-300 keys.
UE generator (video / D3planner / D3planner torment version) [GR 92-95]
Fire Natalya with Shi Mizu (video / D3planner) [GR 95-97, builds without Shi Mizu or including FoK are also 90+]
Cluster Bombs Marauder (video / D3planner) [GR 96-97]
New concise version of my LoN FoK + Shi Mizu guide (video / D3planner) [GR 96-98]
I also plan on adding short written versions when Diablofans resets its build section with the new patch.
I hope you enjoyed the read and / or one of my guides, and maybe you're also looking forward to pushing solo with a different build next season.
wudijo
submitted by /u/wudijo in the recent weeks I've been testing the new DH builds made possible by the reworked Hellcat Waistguard and also dived a little bit more into the belt's mechanics as well. I did some tests on the PTR to find out more about how everything works, which is probably worth knowing for everyone who wants to take his grenade builds seriously. Since we are quite late in the PTR cycle and DH seems to be in a okay spot, I doubt we will see many, if any, changes here anymore.
I did a total of 5 different tests. First, nailing down the damage behavior of the procs, second, recording the average hit chances of bouncing grenades on a stationary target, third, validating proc chances by skill, fourth, counting some kill times with different belt rolls, and fifth, exploring the Buriza mechanics with grenades and the belt.
Here is a screenshot of my sheet for the first test:
http://puu.sh/sPq6a/ac2b1171f2.png
My base damage is 56 without the belt equipped, using Grenade - Tinkerer. If I equip the belt, my "base" attacks will go up by 50% to 84 already, meaning the initial attack aready counts as a bounce. The following bounces each add 50%, and the last one will deal 800% total, not 100% + 800% = 900% as the wording on the belt could suggest ("... dealing an additional 50% damage on each bounce / This bonus is increased to 800% on the final bounce"). This means the total damage with all grenades hitting are 1700% (5 affix), 1400% (4 affix) and 1150% (3 affix), respectively.
On my next test, I took a stationary target (Hellbringers in A3) and did 200 casts with each possible belt affix, counting the procs as well as how many times each separate bounce would hit the target. This test was done with the Grenadier passive equipped. Here is a screenshot:
http://puu.sh/sPqJ7/15271774e4.png
It seems likely that the differences in proc chances are only due to statistical errors, and the real proc chance is probably precisely 50% (also tested more thoroughly below).
It is worth noting that Hellbringers have a rather large hitbox, which rivals that of only the biggest monsters (not counting RGs). Interestingly, the damage share of the initial attack is rather high, around 20-27%. But as you can see on the numbers, especially for the belts with 4 and 5 affix, hitting a target more than twice is rather uncommon. The third, fourth and fifth hits all have average hit chances of below 50%, going as low as 28%. Obviously the numbers go down as the count in bounces increases, as the grenades have a higher chance of jumping somewhere outside of the initial attack area.
Looking at the numbers for only the last and most important bounce for each affix, you can see that the "big" explosion at the end doesn't even do that much for the 5-belt, with only 32% of the total damage done (as opposed to the possible 47% if we had 100% hit chance). Same for the 4-belt, where it is 40% (possible 57%), and only for the 3-belt we have some good numbers here, with 59% of the total damage (69% if we had 100% hit chance).
This result is very interesting because it suggests that the "bad" rolls on the bad are actually not that bad, and might in fact be better than a good roll in some cases. Of course the potential is much higher with a 5-belt, however the average chances of hitting the right targets (or anything at all) are very low for the strong, late explosions, while you get those much more consistently with a low affix. More importantly, bouncing grenades disappear as soon as they hit an obstacle or a wall. This test was done in an open area with no obstacles around, however in a GR, even in good map layouts (excluding most of arreat crater, perhaps), we have walls and obstacles everywhere, and grenades will disappear often before they can fully finish their bounces, favoring a lower affix on the belt. On top of that, you have to consider that for high GR pushing, the ideal playstyle is to surround elites with a lot of trash in order to nuke them down with area damage. With the high-affix belts, the grenades can be expected to do the opposite, i.e. jumping out of the center and killing all the small targets outside, leaving you with nothing but the high hp targets and no area damage to kill them. Based on my limited GR testing on the PTR it seems like there is a chance that people will prioritize lower rolls on their belts for certain builds. For speed farm (torment) builds specifically, you might want to run with a low belt anyway, simply because it takes a long time for all the bounces to happen in the first place.
This incosistent bouncing behavior is generally not so bad for skills like Cluster Arrow - Cluster Bombs or Grenade - Cluster Grenades, because those don't jump so far or just hit a large area in general. However, for Rain of Vengeance - Anathema, Strafe - Demolition or Grenade - Grenade Cache the difference is definitely noticeable and you can see that very often you won't hit your targets with your last explosions. I think overall higher belt affixes will still win out (especially when we consider GR fishing for big density), however probably not by as much as one could think without looking more closely.
My next test was just a confirmation of proc chances by skill. I equipped all the relevant grenade skills and counted how many times I saw a proc. It was rather difficult to do for RoV, so I only did 5 casts, watching them in ultra slow motion a couple times and counting the hits / nonhits until I felt I caught most of them. It seems like the belt has 50% proc chance across the board, independent of skill and belt affix roll:
http://puu.sh/sPrVK/fab7166933.png
Based on my findings about the low affix rolls, I went on to a field-test killing a big target in a rather open area (Ghom) and a small target in a very confined area (skinny a1 zombie near Adria's hut), counting the seconds for a kill.
http://puu.sh/sTb9h/c7afd96fa6.png
It's only a small sample size, but it indicates that indeed the lower belts might not be so bad, especially on small targets and in areas where grenades tend to bounce against obstacles. Note that this test was done with Grenade - Grenade Cache, which probably has the highest bounciness of all grenades. It's also interesting that despite the highest average kill time, the fastest kill by far was done with the lower belt, too (on zombie target). Right now I would say that the (5) belt is probably going to be the best on average if you intend to use it for fishing good maps and big density, and a (3) belt is probably best used for fast farm runs (torments and low GRs), where we have to fight in all kinds of small corridors and also want to deal the big damage as fast as possible (however only if you intend to basically oneshot stuff with a proc). Unfortunately it is rather difficult to acquire reliable data on this, so I can only go with my gut feeling here.
My last test was done with Buriza cubed, to see its behavior with grenades:
http://puu.sh/sTbt1/fe549a53d8.png
This screenshot doesn't show much more than that the extra grenades are also working with the belt, as expected. What it doesn't show is that the Buriza is actually quite difficult to proc, and it has something to do with how many targets are present and how they are distributed locally. It seems you need at least two targets and get the best results if you have a second (or more) target in a straight line right behind the first mob you hit with your grenades, which will make Buriza proc for additional damage. Here is a little indication of what I mean:
http://puu.sh/sYbQX/f3417aabf8.png
This is only really relevant for the UE generator build, though, and keep in mind that Buriza still has an ICD of ~33 frames (so you can only get a proc on every second attack).
TL;DR: Hellcat Waistguard gives us many new builds, especially for solo DH. The proc chance seems to be 50% across the board. Some of the grenade skills we have are quite bouncy, making the juicy late bounces more difficult to unfold their potential when they jump out of a pull or against an obstacle and disappear. A low roll on the belt does not necessarily mean it's bad, especially for RoV - Anathema, Strafe - Demolition or Grenade - Grenade Cache and speedfarm builds in general. Buriza works for grenades but is difficult to proc, because it depends on your and your target's positioning.
Now that we're through with all of this, I also want to present you my guides for next patch. They are all aimed at pushing solo, and with this new belt we actually have a couple very competitive builds now. Personally, I will probably play Marauder's for pushing next season. I will add some numbers to each build to give you an idea of what I would expect this to clear with ~1000-1400 paragon, good item rolls, augments and maybe 100-300 keys.
UE generator (video / D3planner / D3planner torment version) [GR 92-95]
Fire Natalya with Shi Mizu (video / D3planner) [GR 95-97, builds without Shi Mizu or including FoK are also 90+]
Cluster Bombs Marauder (video / D3planner) [GR 96-97]
New concise version of my LoN FoK + Shi Mizu guide (video / D3planner) [GR 96-98]
I also plan on adding short written versions when Diablofans resets its build section with the new patch.
I hope you enjoyed the read and / or one of my guides, and maybe you're also looking forward to pushing solo with a different build next season.
wudijo
[link] [comments]
[HC] I would be super gratuful if someone would help me with Belial under 45 sec TXIII
Posted: 22 Dec 2016 06:01 AM PST
Its the last thing to do for me this season.
I'm on HC Seasonal EU
seventh#2713
€: thx for the upvotes guys. Sadly still no help...;/
submitted by /u/4k_seventh I'm on HC Seasonal EU
seventh#2713
€: thx for the upvotes guys. Sadly still no help...;/
[link] [comments]
Game is WAY too bright.
Posted: 22 Dec 2016 07:06 PM PST
http://prntscr.com/dmvsja
I have no idea what caused this, but ever since I reinstalled the game it has become unplayable since I can't see anything. Anyone have an idea as to how to fix this? Thanks
submitted by /u/JakeDaMonsta I have no idea what caused this, but ever since I reinstalled the game it has become unplayable since I can't see anything. Anyone have an idea as to how to fix this? Thanks
[link] [comments]
Fever Clan - Multi-Gaming Community - Recruiting for Diablo 3
Posted: 22 Dec 2016 07:20 PM PST
Greetings!
Fever Clan is a multi-gaming community which was founded back in 2007 and features multiple gaming sections, ranging from MOBAs to various RPGs, Shooters and more – check out our forums for details on that! Our playerbase is from all over the world and mature – a lot of us have jobs or study and have a family, so we will understand if you can not be active every day.
We also offer our own TeamSpeak-server, which is online 24/7 for all our members and guests alike (as long as they behave well). So feel free to drop by anytime and get to know us!
What we offer in our D3 section:
What we require of you to join our in-game only clan:
If you're interested and would like to join us in game, then please follow those steps:
If you also want to join our gaming community in general, just follow these steps:
If you have any kinds of questions or concerns, please feel free to ask me here in this thread - I'd be glad to help you out! Thank you for reading and have a nice day.
submitted by /u/Retrospads Fever Clan is a multi-gaming community which was founded back in 2007 and features multiple gaming sections, ranging from MOBAs to various RPGs, Shooters and more – check out our forums for details on that! Our playerbase is from all over the world and mature – a lot of us have jobs or study and have a family, so we will understand if you can not be active every day.
We also offer our own TeamSpeak-server, which is online 24/7 for all our members and guests alike (as long as they behave well). So feel free to drop by anytime and get to know us!
What we offer in our D3 section:
- Large playerbase for Diablo 3
- D3 playerbase mainly consists of NA-players - mostly seasonal players
- We host weekly game nights and events
- Seasonal Greater Rift competitions with prizes
What we require of you to join our in-game only clan:
- Follow the Fever-Rules (in summary): Act mature, be respectful and remain calm
- Have a team player attitude and most importantly be drama free
If you're interested and would like to join us in game, then please follow those steps:
- Press Shift+O while in game to open a window.
- In the bottom left on the window that opened press the red Find-button below Clan.
- In the <Filter> option field, type in Fever.
- Choose Fever Clan and press Send Request-button.
If you also want to join our gaming community in general, just follow these steps:
- Register here: http://feverclan.com/forums/register.php
- Apply here: http://feverclan.com/forums/misc.php?do=application
If you have any kinds of questions or concerns, please feel free to ask me here in this thread - I'd be glad to help you out! Thank you for reading and have a nice day.
[link] [comments]
12/20 Hotfix failed to revive the Barber in a meaningful way...pity, S9 could have been nice.
Posted: 22 Dec 2016 12:16 AM PST
The Barber got new hotfixes on Tuesday, 12/20, but they did not help in a meaningful way, video here.
The ongoing frustration with their incompetence is here.
The new discussion (or rather letters of disappointment) is here.
submitted by /u/BelchingBob The ongoing frustration with their incompetence is here.
The new discussion (or rather letters of disappointment) is here.
[link] [comments]
Weekly Thursday Help Desk, Ask your newbie questions here - 12/22/16
Posted: 22 Dec 2016 06:00 AM PST
Welcome to week 187 of Thursday Help Desk.
This is a weekly thread for any quick/newbie/unsure questions you may have. No matter how dumb you may think the question is, now is your chance to have them answered! If you need help with your gear and build, post to the weekly Gear thread instead!
Check the Commonly Asked Questions page first before posting!
If you're not here to ask or answer questions, then this place is not for you. The mods will be resilient in removing posts and possibly even bans. Meta feedback about the weekly post is fine. Helpful people will be strongly considered for an ID scroll after a review of posting history.
Sort by new to answer the latest questions. Older questions most likely already have answers.
If you have any feedback for this specific weekly thread, just post it here or message the mods.
submitted by /u/GharbadTheWeak This is a weekly thread for any quick/newbie/unsure questions you may have. No matter how dumb you may think the question is, now is your chance to have them answered! If you need help with your gear and build, post to the weekly Gear thread instead!
Check the Commonly Asked Questions page first before posting!
If you're not here to ask or answer questions, then this place is not for you. The mods will be resilient in removing posts and possibly even bans. Meta feedback about the weekly post is fine. Helpful people will be strongly considered for an ID scroll after a review of posting history.
Sort by new to answer the latest questions. Older questions most likely already have answers.
If you have any feedback for this specific weekly thread, just post it here or message the mods.
[link] [comments]
Quick quesiton : Does Infernal Machine portal will also close 60 seconds after killing the boss?
Posted: 22 Dec 2016 03:25 AM PST
Patch 2.4.3 does state that the portal to Greed's Realm will now close 60 seconds after opening Greed's chest. I'm not seeing they mention about Infernal Machine.
submitted by /u/Bujang_lepat [link] [comments]
D3: Are barbarians badass, or did D3 get easier?
Posted: 22 Dec 2016 01:00 PM PST
I haven't played since D3 was new and I just recently re-installed and started a new barbarian character (never played one before) and just BLEW through D3. I never died once and only ever had to drink healing potions twice (once during the fight with Diablo). Are barbarians just that badass? or did the game get easier since launch? I'm replaying now on the next level up (hard?) and it still feels really really easy.
submitted by /u/mattgoldey [link] [comments]
Where is the best place I could buy ROS?
Posted: 22 Dec 2016 11:08 AM PST
I currently have diablo 3 vanilla, I bought it a year ago, and since I didn't had money to buy ROS I just kept playing without it, but now that christmas is coming I wanted to gift myself the expansion, so I could start playing seasonal characters and actually completing everything, or almost everything at least, so where should I buy it? just battle.net? or should I go for another page like g2a?
submitted by /u/newtotheworld23 [link] [comments]
Help with a few diablo questions
Posted: 22 Dec 2016 01:07 AM PST
D2: What are the stats (including def and req) of perf Dream Kurast Res and perf Exile Kurast ED?
D3: What are values of perf Rare Amulet and perf properties of the best leveling Legendary Boots (used to quickly reach 70 lvl)?
I need this two questions asked, if anyone is willing to lend a hand it would be great :)
submitted by /u/Mikesbeard D3: What are values of perf Rare Amulet and perf properties of the best leveling Legendary Boots (used to quickly reach 70 lvl)?
I need this two questions asked, if anyone is willing to lend a hand it would be great :)
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