Unlabelled Super Smash Bros - Daily Discussion Thread 09/03/18

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Super Smash Bros - Daily Discussion Thread 09/03/18

Daily Discussion Thread 09/03/18

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 12:11 AM PDT

Welcome to the Daily Discussion Thread series on /r/smashbros! Inspired by /r/SSBM and /r/hiphopheads's DDTs, you can post here:

  • General questions about Smash

  • General discussion (tentatively allowing for some off-topic discussion)

  • "Light" content that might not have been allowed as its own post (please keep it about Smash)

Other guidelines:

  • Be good to one another.

  • While DDT can be lax, please abide by our general rules. No linking to illegal/pirated stuff, no flaming, game debates, etc.

  • Please keep your meme spam contained to the sticky comment provided below.

If you have any suggestions about future DDTs or anything else subreddit related, please send them our way! Thanks in advance!

Also, if you want to chat with other /r/smashbros users you can do so via our Discord channel.

submitted by /u/AutoModerator
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New Smash Blog Post! (9/3/2018) "Today's Fighter - #39: King Dedede - He's not very fast, but he's one of few heavyweight fighters with great recovery. Apparently, a defeat by Kirby inspired him to train hard to learn a move called Hovering, which allows him to float after taking a deep breath."

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 06:07 PM PDT

I'm glad the victory poses now happen in an actual place

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 06:53 AM PDT

A very specific complaint I had with previous games was how the victory screens for matches took place on overly simple environments. Smash 64's was a checkerboard-floor room with no much to it, Melee was a plain black screen and both Brawl and Smash 4 had boring featureless wastelands.

In contrast, Ultimate's environment for the victory screens is much more memorable and thought out. The character seems to be in a garden standing over a paved area surrounded by grass and flowers, and you can see some castle or make ruins-like bulding in the distance, not to mention the sky and clouds looking much better than previously, even having some stars higher up. Plus the flower petals floating around the character, overall way a more detailed screen.

submitted by /u/EskaBamel
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If Banjo & Kazooie are in and Gruntilda is the Smash Taunt for their stage, what rhymes would she give for each character?

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 01:57 PM PDT

So bear and bird have joined the fight
but Grunty's rhymes will test your might!
What kind of words will I flaunt
when Banjo & Kazooie perform an up-taunt?

submitted by /u/2WaterGuns
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State your most wanted fighter and the person replies will tell you their opinion and likeliness of the fighter. When the person replies, edit your fighter to make the person look dumb

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 04:40 PM PDT

Lets try a fun game, shall we?

submitted by /u/ArrayMichael
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Got slightly disappointed today

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 06:02 PM PDT

So today I almost had the chance today to face "Zero" on for glory. I was doing a couple rounds on for glory when I saw a familiar name tag pop up when I entered a match. Confused and surprised I check in my phone for Zero's twitch to see if it was actually him and by god it was. I ready my self until he suddenly leaves the match before it even starts. 5 hours later I became curious as to why he suddenly left, around 30 minutes into the steam is when I got my answer. The match before my encounter in zero, he destroys another person on for glory. On the main menu the now destroyed person leaves the match and I joined his game. I then put my name tag "Salt" as I do every time on for glory. In the stream believing that the same person he just defeated is me he then goes about how his previous match wasn't even close and apparently I was being salty then leaves the match. So in conclusion, I just lost a match to one of the best smash 4 players just because i never changed the name tag "Salt". Just needed someplace to rant about it.

submitted by /u/NotTheBestAtLife
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Brawl Announcer Voice Actor saying character names not in Brawl (2008)

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 02:08 PM PDT

That image is now for certain a Golden Sun reference

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 07:48 AM PDT

Back when Sakurai posted that image of the Rathalos and the character lineup, people definitely jumped straight to Golden Sun, which had me hyped. While I was enthralled, I was not yet convinced, I didn't want to overhype myself and be let down, as I am an avid GS fan and have been petitioning for Isaac for years.

So what more is there that makes the connection than just a simple lineup of characters and a dragon? Well, multiple things;

the specific characters picked are symbolic, some very overtly so.

Link = Isaac; the stand-in protagonist. Similar look and feel.

Marth = Garet; a Mars adept. in GS there are adepts of Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Mercury, being Earth, Fire, Wind and Water/Ice, respectively. Marth being chosen to represent Garet, the 2nd party member who usually stands in his spot, is no coincidence, as Marth's Japanese name quite literally translates to Mars in english.

Shulk = Ivan; a boy with the ability to read minds, and see partially into the future, as are the characteristics of a Jupiter adept. While that may be the only connection there, I am pretty certain that is what Sakurai was going for.

This next point is a moderate stretch but just a bonus, they all joined Smash in the order they appeared in the row, much like the party from GS. Overall I find it entertaining that Sakurai probably put a lot of thought into trying to make this tease. It's possible it isn't a tease, and it's just for fun, but I am going to hope it's not.

also point I missed, the stage resembles an arena from GS as well.

My apologies if this has all already come to light, just excited that Isaac for those GS fans out there, what few there are. tbh I assume probably less than 5% of Smash players have played Golden Sun, yet it's still awesome that everyone seems to want the longtime fans to get the character they have been asking for. Cheers.

submitted by /u/RegalRadish
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Porky - The Last Villain We Need (Spoilers for all the Mother games, by the way)

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 12:22 PM PDT

This is a very long post, so bear with me. I also apologize if another Porky moveset was posted recently.

But why not Giygas?

Now I know what you're thinking; "if we get a villain from the Mother series, it should be Giygas! He's the one that starts every game's conflict!" And you'd be right, Giygas IS the most important villain in the franchise. However, a central part to the Giygas boss fight is that he literally CANNOT be defeated by normal fighting. It's an important part to not only the character, but to the story of both Mother and Mother 2 (or Earthbound Beginnings and Earthbound, respectively). So with that in mind, why not represent the evil side of the Mother franchise with Giygas' right-hand-man, Porky Minch?

Attributes

I figure he would be about the same size as Bowser, given that he is only a 13 year old in a spider mech (which is not as big as it is in subspace, see here, he's really not that much smaller than his mech). He would also be slightly heavier than Mega Man.

He would also have decent ground speed, maybe slightly slower than smash 4 Bowser. He would move very crablike, always sidestepping, while either facing towards the camera, or with his back turned towards it. His walk and run animations would be very similar, with the big difference being that his run is faster (Crazy, right?)

Porky's crouch will involve him lowering the body of his mech closer to the ground and his legs extending higher into the air. Yes, he would have a crawl that is basically just a slower version of his walk.

However, things get interesting while airborne. Porky really struggles when it comes to moving about in the air. He would have Ganondorf level airspeed, fairly fast fall speed and his double jump would have some unique properties.

Porky's double jump would involve him pulling out one of his Mecha-Porkys, holding it underneath him, and slicing its head off, leading it to explode and send him propelling upward. It would have decent height and briefly give Porky a lot more aerial momentum, but it has its drawbacks.

First of all, it's slow. If you input a double jump anywhere near your opponent, you can get hit out of it no problem. The double jump would be considered used the moment the animation begins, therefore, if you're hit, you're probably done for. It would have a hitbox on it, but nothing very strong (Low knockback, 1.5% maybe).

Thankfully, Porky's up special will make up for this, which I will get into later.

Playstyle

"So, how exactly would Porky play?" Well I've got answers for you, my curious friend.

Given what I believe would be his best moveset (which I'll get into later), I think Porky would excel in stage control. Making his opponent as uncomfortable as possible (which, aside from being an asshole, is also his strong suit in the Mother series) would be when he's at his strongest. He'd bombard the stage with Mecha-Porkys and keep his opponent's options limited with the crazy range on some of his normals.

Normals

Just to preface each move I talk about; I'm not amazing with the specifics of moves like frame data, so if it seems terrible to you, please tell me how I can improve it!

Jab combo: Jab 1 would have Porky perform a quick stab with one of his legs. Jabs 2 and 3 would involve Porky first stabbing underneath his opponent with another leg, and then moving that same leg upwards in order to send his opponent upwards in front of him.
Frame 5, FAF 8
2%, 2%, 3%. 7% total
90 degree angle, very low knockback

Forward Tilt: A flurry of stabs with a leg. Based off this move from Subspace.
Frame 9-18, FAF 28
13% kills around 140%

Down Tilt: A quick stab downwards like Jab 2, good "Get-off-me" tool.
Frame 7, FAF 12
6%
Straight horizontal angle, fairly low knockback

Up tilt: Based off this move from Subpsace, minus the laser.
Frame 13-25, FAF 40
15% 90 degree angle, kills around 130%

Dash Attack: Based off this move from his Mother 2 fight. Porky would jump and propel himself forward for a very strong, but slow, dash attack. Slightly faster but a bit weaker than Dedede's.

Frame 23-28, FAF 58
14%
kills around 85%

Aerials

Neutral Air: Porky would tuck in all his legs and do a quick spin. Think a dead spider, but mechanical. Has a sour late hitbox as well with fairly low landing lag.
Frame 5-10, FAF 17
10%
kills around 160%

Forward Air: Another bland stab forward with his leg. Much like Wario's in terms of strength, but a bit slower. Has a sour late hitbox and low landing lag.
Frame 7-19, FAF 40
6%

Up Air: Much like Ridley's up air, Porky would reach on top of him with two of his legs in a sort of A formation you know what I'm talking about.. Decent landing lag.
Frame 17, FAF 25
14%
kills around 125%

Down Air: A stronger and faster version of his double jump. Porky would decapitate a Porky Bot right underneath him. It would act as a meteor, with a sour late hitbox. High landing lag.
Frame 25-33, FAF 40
13%

Back Air: A swing backwards with one of his legs. Not very strong but fairly quick with a sour late hitbox. Low landing lag.
Frame 10-17, FAF 22
10%

Smash Attacks

Forward Smash: Based off this move from the boss fight in Mother 3. Porky would set off a bunch of bombs in front of him. Pretty slow but also fairly strong.
Frame 25-35, FAF 75
25%
kills around 100%

Up Smash: Based off this move from Subspace, only a much smaller jump. It would be the quickest and weakest of his smash attacks. The hitbox is only active once Porky lands.
Frame 20, FAF 40
16%
kills around 130%

Down Smash: Based off this move from Subspace. His strongest but slowest smash attack.
Frame 37-47, FAF 103
20%
kills around 80%

Special Moves

Neutral Special: Based off this move from his Mother 3 fight. Porky sprays his opponent with a strange yellow liquid who becomes slowed for a time on hit.
Frame 20-25, FAF 35
5%

Side Special: Based off this move from his Mother 3 fight. Porky pulls out his PSI Counter Device and holds it in front of him. Acts as a basic reflector, no htibox and can be held.
Frame 7

Up Special: Based off his introduction from Mother 3, except he obviously shoots the chain upwards. When used in the air, Porky ejects his capsule from his mech and shoots the chain upwards. It moves very fast, goes a very long distance vertically and can be slightly aimed to the sides in order to grab the ledge. It does not have a hitbox. When used on the ground, Porky remains in his mech and shoots the chain upwards with slightly less distance and cannot be aimed to the sides. If it connects with an opponent, they are thrown strongly in whatever direction Porky inputs.
Frame 10. Grounded hitbox frame 10-30, FAF 60
Grounded 14%
Grounded kills around 100%

Down Special: Porky's bread and butter. Based on these cute little guys from Mother 3. Porky sends out a Porky Bot and it runs around the stage. If it fails to make contact with an opponent, it will explode automatically after a very short time (~2-3 seconds). If it grabs an opponent, it will hold them in place for about 1.5 seconds and then explode. They move fairly quickly and cannot be shielded. Porky sends them out just like he does in Subspace, seen here. Of course, only one can be out at a time.
Frame 30-110, generated frame 15, FAF after generation 35
7%

Grab and throws

Grab: Porky grabs his opponent with two of his legs by stabbing them into either side of his opponent.
Frame 12

Pummel: Porky digs his legs into his opponent.
3%

Forward Throw: Lifts his opponent above his head and then chucks them forward with both legs.
10%
Kills around 150%

Back throw: Porky pulls his opponent closer and laughs, puts one leg under them and tosses them backwards.
13%
Kills around 150%

Up throw: Porky places his opponent on top of his mech and then hops upwards.
6%
90 degree angle, very low knockback

Down Throw: Porky places his opponent on the ground in front of him, laughs, and then jumps on them.
15%
Kills around 130%

Final Smash: Devil's Machine

I originally had two ideas for Porky's final smash. One of them had to do with the Ultimate Chimera, but I figured since that's present in the New Pork City stage Porky's final smash should represent something not yet seen in Smash:

For Porky's final smash, Porky will turn off the Devil's Machine. It is based off from where I timestamped up until the very end of the video essentially.
To begin his final smash, Porky will laugh, stab his opponent with one of his legs and hold them down. Porky and anyone caught in the final smash will be transported to the Devil's Machine (If you look closely, the eye in the middle contains a picture of Ness, so maybe replace Ness with whatever fighter is caught in the final smash?), where Porky, still standing on his opponent, will press a button. Upon pressing the button, Porky runs away and Giygas will appear and the screen will turn black, before the fighter is launched away. (You cannot grasp the true form of Giygas' attack!)

Taunts, Idle and other miscellaneous stuff

Up Taunt: Drawn from Porky's "skills" at the beginning of Mother 2 when he is a part of Ness' party, as well as his appearance in Mother 3. Porky will begin to cry, only to transition into a fit of laughter which leads into him coughing. Of course, he will be expressing this through movement as well as audio. So, he will first pretend to wipe tears with one of his legs, then he will drop his leg when he begins to laugh and finally he will lean forward as he is coughing.

Side Taunt: Porky will pull out a Porky Bot, pretend to talk to it for a moment while motioning with one of his legs (similarly to Shulk's up taunt), and then he will stab the Bot and begin to laugh. The bot will simply fall over without exploding.

Down Taunt: The taunt everyone's been waiting for: "Spankety, spankety, spankety!" Porky will hit the top of his capsule with one of his legs as he says his famous line.

Idle animations: Porky will cycle between two idle animations. The first will involve him briefly enter a coughing fit.
His second animation will have Porky readjust his footing by stomping the ground with two of his legs one after the other.

Entrance animation: Porky will enter the battle by having his capsule lowered down onto the body of his mech by a chain.

Victory and Loss

When Porky loses, he will appear in his Absolutely Safe Capsule, while rolling back and forth and subtly sticking his tongue out.

Victory Animation 1: The camera will begin by showing Porky being brought onto the screen in his capsule carried by an army of Pigmasks. The screen freezes with the Pigmasks struggling to hold him up and Porky looking forward.

Victory Animation 2: The screen will begin on a photo of Porky and his family, which is quickly crushed by a mechanical spider leg. The camera then zooms out and pans up to Porky. The screen freezes with Porky looking forward and standing on the photo.

Victory Animation 3: The camera will begin on the face of a caribou before it pans out to reveal Porky looking over a few Pigmasks who are attempting to fit the Caribou with mechanical parts. The screen will freeze on Porky looking over them and the Pigmasks continuing to struggle.

Victory Fanfare: Porky's victory fanfare will be the very end of King P's Theme (From the timestamp to 2:56), or some remix of it.

Alternate Costumes and Colours

Porky will have 8 alts to choose from. 4 of them will be recolours of his Mother 3 design, with the other 4 being recolours of his Mother 2 design.

Alt 1: Basic Mother 3 design.
Alt 2: Basic Mother 2 design.
Alt 3: Mother 3 design recolour based off the basic Pigmasks.
Alt 4: Mother 2 design recolour based off Porky's younger brother; Picky Minch.
Alt 5: Mother 3 design recolour based off Fassad.
Alt 6: Mother 2 design recolour based off the Happy Happyist Cultists.
Alt 7: Mother 3 design recolour based off the King Statue.
Alt 8: Mother 2 design recolour based off the unused sprite.

Possible Reveal Trailer

Last part, I promise.
Porky's reveal trailer would begin with Lucas and Duck Hunt walking through New Pork City. While walking, the ground begins to shake and the two (three?) look behind them. The camera changes to show the silhouettes of many figures running behind Lucas and Duck Hunt. They both begin to run away and the screen fades to black.
Upon running for a little bit, Lucas stops and looks behind him, but he doesn't see Duck Hunt. Lucas begins to panic and looks around frantically, only to see, in the distance, Duck Hunt strapped to a table, surrounded by 5 human figures trying to fit him with mechanical parts.
Lucas runs in and quickly dispatches of the figures. While Lucas is trying to free Duck Hunt, the ground again begins to shake. Duck Hunt is freed and the two of them look around once more. The camera switches to a close up of Lucas' face looking around. Lucas stops and stares in front of him, and his eyes begin to widen.
Porky's Theme begins to play as the camera switches to where Lucas was looking, where we see the silhouette of a giant spider walking towards them. As the spider draws closer, who it is gradually becomes more clear before we see him in all his glory.

Porky isn't playing around!

I sincerely thank you if you read through all of this. I also sincerely apologize for wasting your time if you read through all of this.

submitted by /u/-Blue-Baby-
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List of Characters who have been in ALL Smash Bros Games (29 Characters)

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 12:14 PM PDT

I tried to find them all, Hope I didn't miss one

​

​

Some might be tricky to remember. But all these guys are in Smash 64 and obviously the following games.

And I counted WiiU/3DS as just "Smash 4" - as one. If they appear in any form at all, I included it.

submitted by /u/Tevlev14
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Just discovered the icons when changing character colors; this is such a simple addition, but will be very convenient.

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 03:37 PM PDT

Super Smash Bros. Cinematics and Reveal Trailers: A History

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 03:04 PM PDT

"That's my friend." Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Richter, Kirby, and Dracula fanart comic by @KirbyBabeeeeey on Twitter

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 06:25 PM PDT

Evidence suggests a Direct this week

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 09:24 AM PDT

So, we know that Nintendo plans to release their online functionality this month, which would most likely be pre-empted by a Direct.

Additionally, Best Buy announced a Demo at select stores beggining on the 8th

Whats intriguing about this is that they later took the announcement down, and no official Nintendo social media accounts even mentioned it.

It can be assumed that this means the announcement was early, and that an official channel was meant to announce it (the supposed Direct)

Thoughts?

submitted by /u/DoctorWho1111
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Jigglypuff drawing I made for my grandma when I was around 4 y/o.

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 11:31 AM PDT

I was looking around some drawers and found this beautiful peace of art and thought you guys might get a few laughs from it.

https://imgur.com/a/AEazPp9

submitted by /u/SirLegolas13
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[Day 13/34](Vote using Strawpoll) Randomized Smash Ultimate Poll! - [Decidueye vs Banjo-Kazooie] & [Dixie Kong vs Octoling] & [Marx vs Doomguy] & [Birdo vs Black Shadow]

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 09:06 AM PDT

Just found my “melee” shirt and wanted 2 share

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 06:42 PM PDT

Did anyone else notice that there's a sneaking suit skin for Snake in Ultimate?

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 02:33 PM PDT

Here's an example.

It's taken from this video https://youtu.be/bHgvfRYopUM?t=5m7s

I don't remember seeing this used in any of the previous tournaments, do you have any other examples of alts like this?

EDIT: I made a mistake, they've simple updated Snake's design since the "everyone is here" trailer.

The new design incorporates various features from his sneaking suit in some of his more recent games.

I'm sorry for the misinformation, I got too excited when I noticed it!

submitted by /u/Harpotos
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Evaluating the legality of Ultimate's stages

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 10:57 AM PDT

With all 103 stages having been revealed for Ultimate (unless Sakurai pulls a fast one on us and shows some more later), I wanted to go over the potential legality of all of the stages for tournament usage. There's a *lot* of potentially good stages... But not as many as some people seem to think, and I wanna make sure a lot of the new players understand why some stages may or may not be good for tournament play.

First, this is assuming hazards off on everything. This is the simplest way to do this - for one, it seems that it's in the rules layout, and we don't wanna have to go back and switch rulesets every time we want the middle platform of Town & City to move or whatever.

Also, stage morphs banned, obviously. This could be something we mess around with in a side bracket at some point... But going off of Smash 4's history, side brackets don't tend to catch on. (Squad Strike might change that, though.)

Let's start with a list of reasons a stage should be banned:

  • It's too big. A lot of stages are designed for free-for-alls, which simply doesn't translate to a 1v1 setting. Characters will live forever, and it strongly favours campy gameplay, which isn't fun for viewers or spectators. Some of these stages could potentially be legal in doubles, though again, Smash history shows that doubles-only stages barely get picked anyway. (Though maybe it was just that no one like Kongo Jungle...)
  • Zones that are easily camped. The most notorious example of this would be Kongo Falls, which has a rock in the bottom right corner that a player can sit on with no risk. If the other player doesn't have a lead, they're forced to approach, and there's little room for creativity in that approach; there's barely any other room to stand, which means you're basically falling down with an aerial or landing with nothing and hoping you can grab. The person on the rock can cover basically all of these options just by reacting. You can actually see this in effect at the Arcadian Teen Tournament that Nintendo hosted. Other examples of this include the side platforms of Jungle Japes, the rear of Corneria, or the tree in Duck Hunt.
  • The stage is easy to run away on. This kind of ties in with the last two points, but some stages favour characters that can run away forever while slower characters with less range have virtually no counterplay. The classic example is Kongo Jungle, immortalized in the Melee match of Rockcrock vs. Pink Shinobi. The same applies to other stages like Moray Towers and Norfair. There's not much Kirby or Luigi can do to a Sonic or Bayonetta that doesn't want to be caught on these stages.
  • Walkoffs. Because no one wants to be Sheik faired off the stage at 0%, or have a Ness chilling at the edge of the stage fishing for a grab. These situations really, really lower the level of play as people just try to cheese each other out for early kills.
  • Caves of life. These devolve into "who's better at hitting the R button to survive", and the wrong positioning can easily ruin combos or kill setups that were fairly earned. They're just intrusive.
  • Areas where recoveries are easily exploited. Not just areas like Saffron City or Fourside where Ness literally can't recover, but also something like in between the islands in Delfino Plaza, where you can get trapped in the water with no escape but to get spiked repeatedly. (Something like the water in Tortimer Island is a bit more complicated, since there's a bit more room to move around, but I think most competitive players would still be resistant to it.) Any time a significant portion of the cast can be put in a situation where they can't do anything, the stage should probably be banned.
  • It's randomly generated. You should know what the stage is gonna be when you pick it.

With that out of the way, here's a list of stages that, by these criteria, should be banned:

  1. Big Battlefield (too big)
  2. Peach's Castle (camp zones)
  3. Kongo Jungle (camp zones)
  4. Hyrule Castle (too big; camp zones)
  5. Super Happy Tree (too big; easy to run)
  6. Saffron City (camp zones; exploited recoveries)
  7. Mushroom Kingdom (walkoffs; caves of life; exploited recoveries)
  8. Princess Peach's Castle (camp zones)
  9. Kongo Falls (camp zones; easy to run)
  10. Jungle Japes (camp zones)
  11. Great Bay (camp zones; caves of life)
  12. Temple (too big)
  13. Yoshi's Island (Melee) (walkoffs; exploited recoveries)
  14. Green Greens (camp zones)
  15. Corneria (camp zones)
  16. Venom (camp zones)
  17. Onett (camp zones; walkoffs)
  18. Mushroom Kingdom II (walkoffs; exploited recoveries)
  19. Brinstar Depths (camp zones)
  20. Big Blue (walkoffs)
  21. Fourside (camp zones; exploited recoveries)
  22. Mushroomy Kingdom (walkoffs)
  23. Figure-8 Circuit (walkoffs)
  24. Bridge of Eldin (walkoffs)
  25. Norfair (easy to run)
  26. Distant Planet (camp zones; walkoffs)
  27. New Pork City (too big)
  28. Summit (caves of life)
  29. Skyworld (caves of life)
  30. Shadow Moses Island (this one's unique: either there's no side blast zones or the towers are gone and it's just walkoffs)
  31. Luigi's Mansion (easy to run)
  32. Pirate Ship (camp zones)
  33. Spear Pillar (easy to run)
  34. 75m (too big)
  35. Mario Bros. (walkoffs; caves of life)
  36. Hanenbow (too big)
  37. Green Hill Zone (walkoffs)
  38. 3D Land (walkoffs)
  39. Golden Plains (camp zones)
  40. Gerudo Valley (walkoffs)
  41. Spirit Tracks (walkoffs)
  42. Dream Land GB (walkoffs)
  43. Mute City SNES (camp zones)
  44. Magicant (camp zones)
  45. Reset Bomb Forest (camp zones; exploitable recoveries)
  46. Tortimer Island (random)
  47. Balloon Fight (easy to run)
  48. Living Room (walkoffs)
  49. Find Mii (camp zones)
  50. Tomodachi Life (easy to run)
  51. Mushroom Kingdom U (easy to run)
  52. Mario Galaxy (walkoffs)
  53. The Great Cave Offensive (too big, walkoffs)
  54. Coliseum (walkoffs)
  55. Flat Zone X (walkoffs)
  56. Palutena's Temple (too big)
  57. Gamer (caves of life; random)
  58. Garden of Hope (too big)
  59. Wii Fit Studio (walkoffs)
  60. Boxing Ring (camp zones; walkoffs)
  61. Gaur Plains (too big; walkoffs)
  62. Duck Hunt (camp zones)
  63. Wrecking Crew (easy to run)
  64. Windy Hill Zone (too big)
  65. PAC-LAND (walkoffs)
  66. Super Mario Maker (too big; random)
  67. Suzaku Castle (camp zones; walkoffs)
  68. Umbra Clock Tower (camp zones)
  69. Great Plateau Tower (caves of life)
  70. Moray Towers (easy to run)

Already, that's almost three quarters of the available stages that are worthy of banning. There's still some borderline cases, mostly depending on how their hazardless forms are ultimately implemented.

First, the travelling stages. From the demo, we've seen that Prism Tower still travels around, and simply removes the platforms that carry you to the top of the screen. This leaves areas with walkoffs and some awkward platform layouts, so it'll probably still be banned. I suspect the other travelling stages will be implemented similarly, but in the chance that they're just the traveling platforms, some of them could still potentially be legal. (Though most are probably still too big, especially the ones from Wii U.) They are:

  1. Delfino Plaza
  2. Halberd
  3. Port Town Aero Dive
  4. Prism Tower
  5. Mario Circuit
  6. Skyloft
  7. Wuhu Island
  8. New Donk City Hall

Honestly, I think Halberd is the only one there with any real shot - but we'll find out when the game releases.

Here are a handful of other potential borderlines cases:

  1. Rainbow Cruise - If it's just the ship, this might work. The layout is still a little campy, but the stage is really small so those problems might be mitigated.
  2. Castle Siege - The first section and the last section are fine, but the middle one sucks. If it still transforms (and I suspect that it will) this one's a no-go.
  3. Arena Ferox - If it's just the beginning flat part this'll be fine, but most of the transformations are super complicated and have caves of life that are just icky to play on.
  4. Paper Mario - The ship miiiiiight work, but the dip in the middle is really low compared to the top platform. It'll probably be all 3 sections anyway.
  5. Pilotwings - Depends on the plane. This could wind up just being its old Omega, which would be fine.
  6. Dracula's Castle - It's hard to get a sense of what exactly this stage is like from the limited footage we've seen, but it's probably too big.

Which leaves us with the following legal stages:

  1. Battlefield (and all Battlefield forms)
  2. Final Destination (and all omegas)
  3. Dream Land
  4. Brinstar (assuming the stage can't break and no acid)
  5. Yoshi's Story
  6. Fountain of Dreams
  7. Pokémon Stadium
  8. WarioWare
  9. Frigate Orpheon (though I suspect many won't like the wall; this one could wind up banned)
  10. Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
  11. Lylat Cruise (assuming it's more functional than its Wii U counterpart)
  12. Pokémon Stadium 2
  13. Smashville
  14. Unova Pokémon League
  15. PictoChat 2 (assuming it's just the flat part)
  16. Town & City
  17. Wily Castle
  18. Kalos Pokémon League
  19. Midgar

That leaves us with only 19 stages out of 103 that would actually be legal - maybe a few more, but still only a fraction of what the game actually offers. This is still far more than we've ever dealt with in previous games - I think the cap before was 9 stages at the start of Smash 4's life - and I'll definitely leave ruleset discussion for another time. But I think this shows it's not quite as intimidating as it first looked.

submitted by /u/couchpole
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Can we take a second to appreciate Samus's alt costumes in PM?

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 11:14 AM PDT

Young Link [REWORK]

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 06:56 AM PDT

Here is the data from the survey I conducted about echo fighters. I believe this is the largest and most comprehensive survey of echo fighters that has been done.

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 01:22 PM PDT

Here is the original survey responses and here is the data in a much friendlier, easier to understand format.

Here's some general tidbits:

  • Most people either thought the development team should be lenient with adding echoes, or that it doesn't matter how many they add. Even the option that the development team should go all out was more popular than saying the development team should be conservative or echoes shouldn't exist.

  • 10-20 was the most commonly selected number for the amount of echoes there should be. If you average out all the options there, the average number selected was about 12.7-22.7.

  • The characters that "deserve" an echo and the respective echo most commonly chosen are as follows: Sonic (Shadow), Ryu (Ken), Captain Falcon (Black Shadow), Donkey Kong (Funky Kong), Sheik (Impa), Mega Man (Proto Man), Bowser (Dry Bowser), Palutena (Medusa), and Snake (Big Boss).

  • Proto Man is a bit iffy, as he's in Mega Man's final smash. People also voted positively for Roll, however it's unclear if the majority of people would have voted that Mega Man deserves an echo if Proto Man wasn't an option.

  • Yoshi tied 50/50. Birdo was the most popular choice, but it would be a bit of a stretch for her to be a Yoshi echo. She would require some changes, but if they made those changes she would probably be well received.

  • Additionally, Diddy Kong, Villager, and Inkling were voted as deserving of echoes, although people were not asked to pick who the echo would be. The obvious picks are Dixie Kong, Isabelle, and Octoling.

  • With the six echo fighters already announced, that would put us at 18 . . . or 17 without Proto Man . . . right in the middle of that 12.7-22.7 range I mentioned earlier.

There are a number of character that the majority of people did not vote "deserve" echoes but which had echoes that people generally voted they would react positively to.

  • Here are those characters: The Black Knight or Hector (Ike), Tetra (Toon Link), Mr. L (Luigi), Riachu (Pikachu), Demise or Toon Ganondorf (Ganondorf), Twili Midna or Hilda (Zelda), Galacta Knight (Meta Knight), Linkle (Link), Zoroark or Blaziken (Lucario), Celica (Robin), Slippy Toad (Fox), Captain Toad and Toadette (Ice Climbers), and Glass Joe (Little Mac)

  • A few of those are unlikely. Meta Knight has a Galacta Knight alternate costume, Alolan Riachu is already in the game, Imp Midna is an assist trophy, Linkle wouldn't be a great fit for a Link echo, Slippy's build is significantly different from Fox's, and Captain Toad is in the background of the New Donk City stage.

At the end of the survey, I put a question about newcomers. Just for fun. Here's some tidbits about that.

  • Skull Kid, Geno, Bandanna Dee and Isaac were rated as the most likely newcomers

  • Additionally, Spring Man (or another Arms rep) and Rex (Xenoblade) were rated as likely. However their games are recent and so they're more likely as DLC.

  • Decidueye and Incineroar also both rated as likely. I think those can be combined to say that a seventh gen Pokémon rep of some kind is likely. The jury is still out on who it will be. (Decidueye was the more popular choice in this poll).

  • Doom Guy was rated as the most unlikely, but he also ranked fairly well for how excited people would be by his inclusion.

  • Minecraft Steve was by far the least liked option.

  • I was surprised that many people felt that Ryu Hayabusa was highly unlikely, ranking even below Steve and only above Doom Guy. Considering we just got Simon Belmont and Ninja Gaiden is another iconic NES series I didn't think so many people would rank him as highly unlikely.

Here's some personal thoughts on the individual options and what people picked:

  • Any Donkey Kong, Captain Falcon, Bowser, Zelda, Ganondorf, Mega Man, Meta Knight, Olimar, or Snake echo would be a safe bet. Dunban or Malos for Shulk would fare well enough too.

  • Any Sonic or Ryu echo would be quite well recieved. Not giving either of them an echo would be a very poor choice.

  • I'm surprised so many people are welcoming of Shadow Mario. He's a one off villian in a single Mario game where he appears as a secondary antagonist. He's also just Bowser Jr. in disguise.

  • Although less than a third of people voted that Link deserves an echo, his available options all got a decent reception. If they made an echo of Link it would likely be fairly well recieved. A lot of people suggested alternate versions of Link, but if they give Link an echo it really outta be a non-Link Zelda character. People would really love Tetra/Toon Zelda for a Toon Link. Mixing Zelda's moves with Toon Link would be a cool way of making that happen. Additionally, if any Link gets an echo, it should not be Young Link.

  • I thought it was interesting that so few people were interested in the inclusion of Kid Yoshi. Paper Mario is a popular character suggestion and people are even interested in the secondary antagonist, Mr. L. I thought another Paper Mario character would be well liked, but people don't seem very interested. Either way any Yoshi echo would fairly well recieved and would be a solid pick.

  • Largely the only two Star Fox options people are interested in are Slippy and Peppy, who may not even work due to body shape.

  • Hyrule Warriors is the most wanted Sheik design.

  • I'm dissapointed to see people so down on Stanely the Bugman as a Game and Watch echo. He could count as being from the same franchise, since he's from a Game and Watch game, and some of Mr. Game and Watch's moves are ripped directly from Stanely. People would rather they butcher Paper Mario to make him a Game and Watch echo or create a brand new "Mrs. Game and Watch" character than have Stanely be Mr. Game and Watc's echo . . . I found that surprising.

  • People complain a lot about Fire Emblem, but people are still interested in an Ike or Robin echo.

  • The only Wii Fit Trainer echo that would be recieved well is Matt, from the Wii Sports games. With more realistic proportions and some sort of workout outfit and boxing gloves, I suppose he might work. He was a joke addition but people reacted pretty well to the option. It's a stretch that won't happen, but it's still a funny idea.

  • A Little Mac echo would be a fairly well recieved pick, but a lot of options would require reaching a bit with their size. Glass Joe was the top pick and he fits Little Mac's size well enough, but he's a bit of a joke character in the games. It's said he lost 99 matches and won one on a freak accident. If he gets added I think he should be worse than Little Mac in every way, except he should have like a 1% chance of a hit doing double damage or something.

  • Most Pokemon echoes weren't very well recieved, but people wouldn't mind seeing the Pikachu line finished off with Riachu. Additional Gengar would be a well recieved Jigglypuff echo, if possible, and there's a few options all fairly well liked for Lucario: Blaziken, Zoroark, and Zeraora.

So, looking at the survey results here are the characters that seem no brainers (in no particular order):

  • Funky Kong (Donkey Kong)

  • Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong)

  • Shadow (Sonic)

  • Ken (Ryu)

  • Impa (Sheik)

Additionally, these characters are all solid options:

  • Black Shadow (Captain Falcon) . . . Other options would work

  • Isabelle (Villager)

  • Dry Bowser (Bowser) . . . Wart would also be a decent pick, if they could get him to work

  • Medusa (Palutena) . . . Viridi is also an option if they can deal with their different sizes and the fact that she appears in a stage

  • Roll (Mega Man) . . . Or someone from Mega Man's final smash if they can be Alfonzo'ed out

  • Octolings (Inklings)

  • Big Boss (Snake) . . . Or any other Snake echo

Lastly, here are some characters that would make for decent picks:

  • The Black Knight or Hector (Ike)

  • Birdo . . . but that's a bit of a stretch getting her to work . . . Also Yarn Yoshi or Boshi (Yoshi)

  • Hilda or Twili Midna (Zelda)

  • Any Ganondorf echo

  • Louie, Charlie, Birttany, or Alph being an echo (Olimar)

  • Tetra or Toon Zelda (Toon Link, with a Zelda move . . . or two if possible)

  • Mr. L (Luigi)

  • Any Meta Knight echo

  • Glass Joe (Little Mac)

  • Jeanne (Bayonetta)

  • Blaziken, Zoroark, or Zeraora (Lucario)

  • Slippy or Peppy Hare (for any Star Fox character) only if they could get them to work, since their builds are a bit different.

  • Ninten (Ness) and Mrs. Pac-Man (Pac-Man) might be, but the question was different than the other ones and it's hard to say how they would fare with more fleshed out questions for each of them.

submitted by /u/FlanBrosInc
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I was at Fan Expo Canada 2018 all 4 days for the available Smash Ultimate Demo. I played nothing but Zelda for over 50 matches and recorded most of the footage. The following is a highlight from those matches, enjoy!

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 09:13 PM PDT

Super Smash Bros Commercial (N64)

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 04:13 PM PDT

Shout out to Sakurai for putting in all the DLC from Smash 4

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 07:57 PM PDT

I'm really glad that even though not all the stages are returning, we still got all the DLC stages back from Smash 4 (Plus the DLC fighters.) Now, there's no way that these things will be lost when the Wii U and 3DS servers eventually shut down, because they'll live on in Ultimate.

submitted by /u/Monkeyman2491
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Made a concept for a track that I think is long overdue in Smash: a medley of Ganondorf's theme from OoT.

Posted: 03 Sep 2018 07:45 AM PDT

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