Unlabelled Dota 2 - Hero Discussion of the Day: Elder Titan, the Worldsmith (July 3rd, 2018)

7/05/2018 02:17:00 am
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Dota 2 - Hero Discussion of the Day: Elder Titan, the Worldsmith (July 3rd, 2018)

Hero Discussion of the Day: Elder Titan, the Worldsmith (July 3rd, 2018)

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 01:56 PM PDT

Elder Titan, the Worldsmith

The Elder Titan is a melee strength hero who is renowned as a powerful area nuker and disabler. Elder Titan is perhaps best known for his ability Astral Spirit, which sends forth an image of himself that damages enemies that it passes through, and upon returning to Elder Titan boosts his attack damage and movement speed, making him a fearsome melee fighter. Possessing a channeled sleep in Echo Stomp, Elder Titan is also capable of knocking out his foes for an extended period of time if they are caught within its radius; Astral Spirit also allows him to cast this ability and disable large groups of enemies from afar, making him one of the few initiators that does not require a Blink Dagger. This combination creates a perfect setup for his powerful ultimate Earth Splitter, which damages enemies based on their maximum HP and slows their movement speed. This, along with his ability to lower his enemies' physical and magical resistance with his Natural Order aura, makes Elder Titan scale well through his abilities and be effective at all stages of the game. As the progenitor of this world, Elder Titan reshapes the battlefield on a whim and can turn any teamfight in his favor.

Lore

Well may you ask, "How did this world take its form?" Why of all the worlds in creation, has this one its strange properties, its diverse and motley collection of creatures, cultures and lore? "The answer," One whispers, "lies with the Titans."

These original progenitors were there near the Beginning--if not actual witnesses to the creation, then born with it still echoing in their ears. Stamped with the earliest energies of the universe, they wished nothing more than to continue as creators themselves. Thus they bent to the task of shaping matter to their will: hammering and heating, bending and blasting. And when matter proved less challenging than they liked, they turned their tools upon themselves, reshaping their minds and reforging their spirits until they had become beings of great endurance. Reality itself became the ultimate object of their smithing. Yet, along the way, they sometimes erred. In cases of great ambition, mistakes are unavoidable.

The one we know as the Elder Titan was a great innovator, one who studied at the forge of creation. In honing his skills, he shattered something that could never be repaired, only thrown aside. He fell into his own broken world, a shattered soul himself. There he dwelt among the jagged shards and fissured planes, along with other lost fragments that had sifted down through the cracks in the early universe. And this is why the world we know resembles an isle of castaways, survivors of a wreck now long forgotten. Forgotten, that is, by all but the One who blames himself. He spends his time forever seeking a way to accomplish the repairs, that he might rejoin the parts of his broken soul, that we and the world alike might all be mended. This is the One we know as Elder Titan.

Roles: Durable, Initiator, Disabler, Nuker

Strength: 24 + 2.6

Agility: 14 + 1.8

Intelligence: 23 + 1.6

 

Damage: 47-57

Armor: 2.24

Movement Speed: 310

Attack Range: 150

Missile Speed: Instant

Base Attack Time: 1.7

Sight Range: 1800 (Day) / 800 (Night)

Turn Rate: 0.5

Spells

Echo Stomp

Elder Titan and his Astral Spirit both stomp the ground, damaging and knocking nearby enemy units unconscious around their locations. The Elder Titan stomp deals physical damage, while the Spirit stomp deals magical damage.

Level Manacost Cooldown Casting Range Area Duration Effects
1 100 14s N/A 500 2s After a 1.3 channel time, damages nearby enemy units by 70 and sleeps all nearby enemy units to Elder Titan and his Astral Spirit. Units are woken up after taking 50 damage or after 2 seconds
2 100 13s N/A 500 3s After a 1.3 channel time, damages nearby enemy units by 100 and sleeps all nearby enemy units to Elder Titan and his Astral Spirit. Units are woken up after taking 100 damage or after 3 seconds
3 100 12s N/A 500 4s After a 1.3 channel time, damages nearby enemy units by 130 and sleeps all nearby enemy units to Elder Titan and his Astral Spirit. Units are woken up after taking 150 damage or after 4 seconds
4 100 11s N/A 500 5s After a 1.3 channel time, damages nearby enemy units by 160 and sleeps all nearby enemy units to Elder Titan and his Astral Spirit. Units are woken up after taking 200 damage or after 5 seconds

  • Dispellable

  • Applies a sleep on affected units, preventing them from acting, until woken up.

  • If a unit is hit by both damage components of the stomp, it takes 140/200/260/320 (with talent 340/400/460/520) damage (before reductions).

  • The stomp first applies the damage, then the debuff.

  • When the Astral Spirit is summoned, it performs the stomp perfectly synchronized with Elder Titan.

    • The sleep is applied in the radius around Elder Titan and the spirit. If the radii overlap, the duration does not stack up.
    • If the spirit is not summoned or Astral Spirit is not learned, both magical and physical damage are centered around Elder Titan.

  • The Astral Spirit has this ability as well (with a different icon). Ordering the spirit to cast it forces Elder Titan to cast his part.

    • When being cast on the spirit while Elder Titan is disabled, it goes on cooldown for the spirit and does nothing.
    • However, Elder Titan can still use it afterwards and the spirit still mimics, despite its own being on cooldown.
    • When Elder Titan casts Echo Stomp while the Astral Spirit is disabled (e.g. inside Chronosphere), it still casts its part.
    • Echo Stomp cannot be cancelled by ordering the spirit to stop. During the Echo Stomp animation, the spirit cannot act.

  • Affected units cannot be woken up for the initial 0.2 seconds of the sleep.

    • After the initial part, units wake up only after cumulatively taking 50/100/150/200 damage.
    • Starts counting damage during the initial stun part already. Counts damage after all reductions.
    • This means if the unit took enough damage during the 0.2, it may instantly wake up on the next damage instance afterwards.
    • Does not count Astral Spirit's damage, but does count Earth Splitter.

  • Knocked out units are never automatically attacked, regardless of settings. A forced attack order is required to attack them.

The force of creation still echoes in the stomp of the Titan.

 

Astral Spirit

Elder Titan sends forth his Astral Spirit, damaging any units it passes through. When the spirit rejoins the Titan, it grants bonus damage and movement speed for each unit it damaged. The Astral Spirit possesses the Echo Stomp, Return Spirit, and Natural Order abilities.

Level Manacost Cooldown Casting Range Area Duration Effects
1 80 16s 1200 275 8s Summons an Astral Spirit, the spirit is phased and unhindered by terrain. The spirit deals 60 damage to any enemy unit it passes through. When the spirit is reunited with Elder Titan, he gains bonus damage for every unit the spirit passed through (6 for creeps, 15 for heroes) and bonus movement speed for every unit the spirit passed through (1% for creeps, 5% for heroes). The buff lasts for 9 seconds.
2 90 16s 1200 275 8s Summons an Astral Spirit, the spirit is phased and unhindered by terrain. The spirit deals 90 damage to any enemy unit it passes through. When the spirit is reunited with Elder Titan, he gains bonus damage for every unit the spirit passed through (9 for creeps, 30 for heroes) and bonus movement speed for every unit the spirit passed through (1% for creeps, 5% for heroes). The buff lasts for 9 seconds.
3 100 16s 1200 275 8s Summons an Astral Spirit, the spirit is phased and unhindered by terrain. The spirit deals 120 damage to any enemy unit it passes through. When the spirit is reunited with Elder Titan, he gains bonus damage for every unit the spirit passed through (12 for creeps, 45 for heroes) and bonus movement speed for every unit the spirit passed through (1% for creeps, 5% for heroes). The buff lasts for 9 seconds.
4 110 16s 1200 275 8s Summons an Astral Spirit, the spirit is phased and unhindered by terrain. The spirit deals 150 damage to any enemy unit it passes through. When the spirit is reunited with Elder Titan, he gains bonus damage for every unit the spirit passed through (15 for creeps, 60 for heroes) and bonus movement speed for every unit the spirit passed through (1% for creeps, 5% for heroes). The buff lasts for 9 seconds.

  • Undispellable

  • The spirit is controllable by Elder Titan until the end of its duration.

  • Other players cannot select the spirit, so it cannot be used to prevent selecting other units behind it.

  • The spirit cannot intercept any spell (e.g. Meat Hook, Sacred Arrow, Hookshot).

  • The spirit's movement speed is set equal to Elder Titan's movement speed once upon cast and does not adapt to it afterwards.

  • If Natural Order is learnt, the aura's debuff is always applied before the Astral Spirit's damage, effectively increasing it.

  • The Astral Spirit unites with Elder Titan when it comes within 100 range of him, meaning just walking through it returns it as well.

  • Casting Echo Stomp while the spirit returns forces the spirit to stop and cast his part. It continues returning once the cast finishes.

  • Upon having returned, Elder Titan receives the Ancestral Spirit Buff, which grants him damage and speed based on the hit enemies.

    • Does not count illusions and couriers. Treats creep-heroes as creeps.
    • If the buff is still present on a recast, it gets refreshed, but not updated, upon returning the spirit again.
    • If no enemies were hit, the buff is not placed, nor is an already existing buff getting refreshed.

  • The Astral Spirit does not block neutral creep camps.

  • This is how much attack damage Astral Spirit grants after hitting a certain amount of heroes:

    • 1 hero: 15/30/45/60 (with talent 45/60/75/90)
    • 2 heroes: 30/60/90/120 (with talent 90/120/150/180)
    • 3 heroes: 45/90/135/180 (with talent 135/180/225/270)
    • 4 heroes: 60/120/180/240 (with talentalent 180/240/300/360)
    • 5 heroes: 75/150/225/300 (with talent 225/300/375/450)

Like the four fundamentals, Elder Titan exists across all planes at once and can draw other aspects of himself to assist in times of need

 

Natural Order

Passive

Reduces all elements to their basic levels, removing base armor and magic damage resistance from nearby enemy units. The armor reduction is centered around the hero, while the magic armor reduction is centered around Astral Spirit.

Level Manacost Cooldown Casting Range Area Duration Effects
1 N/A N/A N/A 350 N/A Reduces the armor of the enemies around Elder Titan by 40% and their magic resistance by 40% around Astral Spirit.
2 N/A N/A N/A 350 N/A Reduces the armor of the enemies around Elder Titan by 60% and their magic resistance by 60% around Astral Spirit.
3 N/A N/A N/A 350 N/A Reduces the armor of the enemies around Elder Titan by 80% and their magic resistance by 80% around Astral Spirit.
4 N/A N/A N/A 350 N/A Reduces the armor of the enemies around Elder Titan by 100% and their magic resistance by 100% around Astral Spirit.

  • Undispellable

  • Armor reduction is based on the affected units' base armor and armor granted by agility. Direct armor bonuses are ignored.

  • Magic resistance reduction is based on the affected units' base magic resistance. Magic resistance bonuses are ignored.

    • This means, for heroes with 25% base magic resistance, it reduces magic resistance by 10%/15%/20%/25%, down to 15%/10%/5%/0%.
    • For Visage, who has 10% base magic resistance, it reduces magic resistance by 4%/6%/8%/10%, down to 6%/4%/2%/0%.

  • Adapts the armor reduction based on how the affected units' armor changes due to agility loss or gain in 0.5 second intervals.

  • When the Astral Spirit is summoned, the magic resistance reduction is centered around it, while the armor reduction around Elder Titan.

    • If the spirit is not summoned or Astral Spirit is not learned, both armor and magic resistance reduction are centered around Elder Titan.

  • The aura's debuff lingers for 1 second.

    • However, if Astral Spirit gets cast, enemies around Elder Titan who are not within range of the spirit's aura immediately lose the magic resistance reducing debuff.

As it was at the beginning, Elder Titan makes it so again.

 

Earth Splitter

Ultimate

Sends forth a jagged crack in front of Elder Titan. After 3 seconds, the crack implodes, slowing movement while dealing damage to each enemy based on their maximum life. Half of the damage dealt is Magical damage, while the other half is Physical damage.

Level Mana Cost Cooldown Casting Range Area Duration Effects
1 125 100s 2400 After 3 seconds from cast, any units within the crack are slowed by 30% and take 30% of their maximum HP as damage, they are also pulled towards the crack line
2 175 100s 2400 After 3 seconds from cast, any units within the crack are slowed by 40% and take 40% of their maximum HP as damage, they are also pulled towards the crack line
3 225 100s 2400 After 3 seconds from cast, any units within the crack are slowed by 50% and take 50% of their maximum HP as damage, they are also pulled towards the crack line

  • Dispellable

  • Deals 15%/20%/25% of the affected units' max health as magical damage first, and then 15%/20%/25% as physical damage.

  • The crack extends at a speed of 910.

  • Can hit units up to 2415 range away (crack distance + crack radius).

  • Also affects units up to 315 range behind Elder Titan's cast position.

  • The crack visually extends up to 2600 distance, but the actual effects stop at 2100.

  • Earth Splitter first applies the debuff, then the damage.

  • Affected units are instantly pulled towards the crack once it implodes.

  • The pull interrupts channeling spells.

  • Forces a stop command onto the target upon pull, so that its current move, attack and spell cast orders get canceled.

  • Does not affect ancient creeps.

  • When having Aghanim's Scepter, the ability places the Earth Splitter Scepter debuff, instead of the Earth Splitter debuff.

    • This debuff disarms enemies, on top of slowing them.
    • The default and the scepter debuff stack with each other.

That which he created, the titan tears asunder.

Talent Tree

Level Option 1 Option 2
25 100% Lifesteal (2.2%) OR -75s Earth Splitter Cooldown
20 +100 Echo Stomp Damage OR +70 Attack Speed (+0.1%)
15 +30 Astral Spirit Hero Attack OR +15% Magic Resistance (+0.4%)
10 +200 Health OR +25 Movement Speed (+2.3%)

Matchups

Best against

Opponent hero Advantage
Io 4.93%
Tidehunter 3.93%
Meepo 3.80%
Winter Wyvern 2.69%
Broodmother 2.35%

Worst against

Opponent hero Advantage
Lifestealer -3.80%
Arc Warden -3.41%
Alchemist -2.65%
Templar Assassin -2.46%
Dark Seer -2.30%

Recent Changelog

7.13b

  • Reduced base armor from 1 to 0.

  • Reduced movement speed from 315 to 310.

7.12

  • Reduced Echo Stomp initial stun duration from 0.8 to 0.2.

7.07

  • Increased turn rate from 0.4 to 0.5.

  • Increased base health regeneration from 0 to 1.5.

  • Increased base mana regeneration from 0.01 to 0.9.

  • Added visual effects for Natural Order's debuffs.

  • Echo Stomp

    • Hit units now wake up after taking 50/100/150/200 accumulative damage while sleeping.
    • Now counts any damage the hit units take, instead of only counting player based damage.

  • Reworked talents

    • Level 10: +200 health or +25 movement speed
    • Level 15: +30 Astral Spirit attack damage bonus per hero or +15% magic resistance
    • Level 20: +100 Echo Stomp damage or +70 attack speed
    • Level 25: 100% lifesteal or -75s Earth Splitter cooldown

7.06

  • Increased strength gain from 2.3 to 2.6.
  • Reduced base health regeneration from 0.25 to 0.
  • Increased Astral Spirit attack damage per hero from 12/24/36/48 to 15/30/45/60.
  • Increased Earth Splitter crack width from 300 to 315.
  • Level 10 right talent: Replaced 20 seconds respawn time reduction with 200 mana bonus.

7.03

  • Increased agility gain from 1.5 to 1.8.

7.02

  • Increased Natural Order radius from 325 to 350.
  • Level 15 left talent: Replaced 25 experience bonus with 30 Echo Stomp damage bonus.
  • Level 25 left talent: Increased Astral Spirit attack damage bonus per hero from 80 to 100.

Previous hero related threads

Hero discussion of the day, 23.05.2013

Hero discussion of the day, 10.09.2013

Hero tips for Elder Titan

Previous hero discussion

Earthshaker (June 26th, 2018)

Valve Artwork | Voice Responses | In-game Icon | Dota Cinema Video Overview | Dota2Wiki page | Liquipedia page | Dotabuff page | Hero discussion archive

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BTS Summer Cup: Phase 2 - Day 6 Match Discussions

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 06:09 AM PDT

BTS Summer Cup

Organized by Beyond the Summit

See here for yesterday's results

Coverage

Liquipedia | JoinDota | Dotabuff | Eventvods

Streams

BTS

Rosters

Alliance: qojqva, miCKe, Boxi, iNSaNiA, Taiga, Coach: Loda

Double Dimension: Cooman, Pikachu, chshrct, VANSKOR, KingR

ESPADA: iLTW, Nix, 633, Immersion, Misha

Ex-Kinguin: Exotic_Deer, Nisha, Patos, kacor, eL lisasH

Gang Squad: oliver, Nine, Buugi, AfrOmoush, rmN-

The Final Tribe: Frost, Era, jonassomfan, Pablo, Handsken, Coach: Loomdun

Vega Squadron: Palantimos, Dendi1, Mag, Solo1, CemaTheSlayeR

Wind and Rain: ritsu, Bryle, FoREv, MiLAN, kitrak

1: Dendi and Solo are standing in for Vega Squadron

Day 6 (Wednesday July 4)

 ID   Team vs Team Result Cntdwn (CEST) PDT EDT GMT CEST SGT AEST Frmt
A1 Wind & Rain vs. 14:00 5:00 9:00 12:00 14:00 20:00 22:00 BO3
A2 vs. DD 17:00 8:00 11:00 15:00 17:00 23:00 1:00 BO3
AW vs. 20:00 11:00 14:00 18:00 20:00 2:00 4:00 BO3

Countdown times are in CEST. All times are subject to change based on the length of matches and delays.

Other match discussions: /r/dota2 on Discord

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Dragon knight vs 3 dragons

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 04:19 AM PDT

EE destroying items again....

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 05:08 AM PDT

Crystal Maiden Vakyrie, art by Igor "haryarti" Artyomenko

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 07:34 AM PDT

I got DMCA’d on twitch and received a 24 hour ban for taking a clip of Arteezy’s stream

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 06:07 AM PDT

So I got an email from twitch at around 4am saying that I got a DMCA strike on my account. The problem I have with this is that I haven't streamed in a few months. Come to find out that they DMCA'd me because I took 2 clips of Arteezy when he was streaming. I checked Arteezy's twitch and it doesn't appear to have a ban on it, so why did mine? Any help or insight is appreciated.

http://imgur.com/IZUnhHt

http://imgur.com/up3djGa

Edit: here are the two clips https://clips.twitch.tv/AstuteTrappedDadTF2John

https://clips.twitch.tv/ProudThoughtfulOctopusDoritosChip

Second link isn't working but it's the exact one they sent me, so did that one get removed completely?

Edit2: thanks u/cyrq for showing a twitch Engineers response claiming its a bug link

submitted by /u/ItsThePerfectCrime
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Literally Unplayable - Predictions Edition

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 02:14 AM PDT

Mr. Gaben, I don't feel so good

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 07:37 PM PDT

monkaS

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 01:09 AM PDT

The International 2018 All-Timers

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 09:10 PM PDT

DotA2 saved me from becoming a porn star

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 03:11 AM PDT

Monkey King creep aggro glitch/trick

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 03:30 AM PDT

Can we please get a Fantasy app for this years TI?

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 04:13 AM PDT

During TI we've always had to access the fantasy challenge through Dota on a daily basis in order to pick players that are actually playing. This means it's impossible to stay competitive if you're without a computer for even one of the last days of the tournament.

I don't know enough about app design to judge the amount of work required, but i can't imagine it would be all that hard to give us something basic?

submitted by /u/-Twigs-
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Fly: I joined the team and I saw plenty of good things, not problems.

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 08:20 AM PDT

Played Dota 2 version 5.80 today (offline only). So much nostalgia.

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 04:41 AM PDT

can we choose the favorite team logo teleport effect over the aegis when we reach 1k lvl please valve

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 06:58 AM PDT

as title, i want to see my liquid logo

submitted by /u/maximus2104
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Player Cards are finally out, so here's a Comprehensive Fantasy Dota Guide, by a scrub

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 04:37 PM PDT

Hi folks. It's good to be back writing fantasy guides again! Yeah, I spent qualifier season putting out quick little analysis-hits on specific teams as they gradually qualified for TI, but now that Valve has finally made player cards available in our compendiums, I decided to write something resembling a fully comprehensive, fleshed out fantasy guide. Consider this post to be kind of an "Oh Shit, Fantasy Dota is in my compendium, how the hell do I play it?" kind of guide. We'll get into more technical aspects of it (like who you should actually roll with on each day) in future posts, but this one should help you wrap your mind around the general concept.

So before you read this, who the hell am I and why should you read any further? Well, let me introduce myself for people who don't know. From a Dota perspective, I'm just a scrub (hence the title)...I've played for a few years, I'm a Legend 1 Lich/Disruptor picker, and I suck at drafting. BUT, I do understand fantasy reasonably well from having played other sports' versions of it. I wrote fantasy guides during last year's TI, and they seemed to be pretty popular and they seemed to help a lot of people based on the feedback I got. As far as where the rubber hits the road, my qualifications are that I scored in the 99.6 percentile of all fantasy Dota players with a score of 3151.78. So...I'm not bad at this, and I'd like to help you also be not bad at this. I hope you'll see by reading this guide and others like it that it's really not that hard. It's really a simple concept once you get the hang of it, which is why I'm really nothing special, just the guy who happens to be writing this all down. So let's get started.

---

First of all, I gotta hit you guys with THE DATA. Now, full disclaimer...it goes against my better judgement to combine it all like this. You've got a lot of unlike-data in here, because you have a lot of teams getting data from a lot of different sources. SOME teams' data (Liquid, VP, LGD, Secret, VG, Mineski, Newbee, VGJ.T) are only displaying averages based on how they did in the China Super Major. SOME teams' data (Winstrike, paiN, fnatic, Serenity, IG, OG) are purely coming from their respective qualifier matches, which in and of themselves are separate data sets, aka SA Qualis =/= CIS Qualis, etc... And SOME teams' data (TNC, OpTic, EG, VGJ.S) are coming from a combination of both of those things. Yeah, great, everybody has a fantasy average in the lists below, but they were against radically different levels of opponents, so it's not *quite* accurate to judge them against each other. But at the end of the day, you gotta go with what you got, and this is all we got. And besides, I know you guys want this, and if there's anything I've learned on Reddit, it's that you've got to give the people what they want. So here it is (each player is listed with their team as well as their average fantasy score based on the data set described above):

CORES ~ Moonn (Mineski) - 17.9 | ana (OG) - 17.7 | w33 (paiN) - 17.3 | iceberg (WS) - 17.2 | Abed (Fnatic) - 16.7 | Silent (WS) - 16.7 | Somnus 'M (PSG.LGD) - 16.5 | Sccc (Newbee) - 16.1 | Xxs (IG) - 16.0 | Sylar (VGJ.T) - 15.8 | RAMZES666 (VP) - 15.6 | Zyd (Serenity) - 15.6 | hFn (paiN) - 15.6 | No[o]ne (VP) - 15.4 | Raven (TNC) - 15.1 | Paparazi (VG) - 15.1 | Mushi (Mineski) - 14.9 | Moogy (Newbee) - 14.7 | Resolut1on (VGJ.S) - 14.6 | Armel (TNC) - 14.5 | Freeze (VGJ.T) - 14.5 | Ori (VG) - 14.3 | EternaLEnVy (Fnatic) - 14.2 | MidOne (Secret) - 14.0 | MATUMBAMAN (Liquid) - 13.9 | Agressif (IG) - 13.9 | SumaiL (EG) - 13.8 | Miracle- (Liquid) - 13.7 | CCnC (OpTic) - 13.7 | Ame (PSG.LGD) - 13.0 | Pajkatt (OpTic) - 12.9 | YawaR (VGJ.S) - 12.8 | Arteezy (EG) - 12.7 | Topson (OG) - 12.7 | Ace (Secret) - 12.1 | zhizhizhi (Serenity) - 11.3

SUPPORTS ~ ALWAYSWANNAFLY (WS) - 19.6 | Q (IG) - 17.1 | SVG (VGJ.S) - 16.9 | Puppey (Secret) - 16.8 | Fenrir (VG) - 16.6 | xNova (PSG.LGD) - 16.2 | Fly (EG) - 16.0 | pieliedie (Fnatic) - 16.0 | Solo (VP) - 15.9 | ddc (VGJ.T) - 15.9 | ninjaboogie (Mineski) - 15.8 | Tims (TNC) - 14.9 | KuroKy (Liquid) - 14.6 | kuku (TNC) - 14.2 | DJ (Fnatic) - 14.1 | N0tail (OG) - 14.1 | Peterpandam (OpTic) - 14.0 | Faith (Newbee) - 13.6 | Kingrd (paiN) - 13.5 | YapzOr (Secret) - 13.3 | XCJ (Serenity) - 13.3 | zai (OpTic) - 13.1 | Kaka (Newbee) - 12.9 | BoBoKa (IG) - 12.8 | Pyw (Serenity) - 12.2 | Cr1t (EG) - 12.0 | fy (PSG.LGD) - 12.0 | Fade (VGJ.T) - 12.0 | Jabz (Mineski) - 11.9 | GH (Liquid) - 11.5 | RodjER (VP) - 11.3 | MSS (VGJ.S) - 10.8 | JerAx (OG) - 10.8 | duster (paiN) - 10.7 | LaNm (VG) - 10.4 | Nofear (WS) - 9.9

OFFLANERS ~ XinQ (Serenity) - 13.5 | 7ckngMad (OG) - 12.4 | Fata (Secret) - 12.3 | Universe (Fnatic) - 12.0 | nongrata (WS) - 12.0 | 33 (OpTic) - 11.6 | Yang (VGJ.T) - 11.5 | eLeVeN (VG) - 11.2 | 9pasha (VP) - 11.0 | Sneyking (VGJ.S) - 10.7 | srf (IG) - 10.7 | tavo (paiN) - 10.7 | MinD_ContRoL (Liquid) - 10.6 | S4 (EG) - 10.5 | iceiceice (Mineski) - 10.3 | SamH (TNC) - 9.8 | Chalice (PSG.LGD) - 9.0 | kpii (Newbee) - 8.2

There's the data, go nuts with it. I'm not going to spend time breaking down each team and each player on that team. I already did that in my smaller posts during qualifiers (I'll provide links to each of those at the end of this post for those interested). Generally speaking, it boils down to this anyway: For group play, I personally set an arbitrary score for each position (11 for Offlanes, 15 for Supports, 16 for Cores). If the dude averages above that denotation mark, then there's a chance I use him. If they average less, I'm not using him. Simple (you can set these numbers wherever you like for yourself...again, they're arbitrary). For main event, this kind of gets thrown out the window because of scheduling becoming SO much more important, but to get started, there you go.

Now before you get excited and just go pencil in the very highest averages into your Day 1 lineup...slow your roll for a minute. The above fantasy averages are actually the SECOND-most important factor in deciding fantasy lineups, by the way. The MOST important factor is schedule. Schedule is the most important for this simple reason: If the offlaner with the BEST fantasy average (XinQ) is scheduled to play 2 matches on Day 1, and the WORST fantasy average (kpii) is scheduled to play 3 matches, then the BEST and WORST players will be projected to deliver similar fantasy scores (13.5 x 2 = 27; 8.2 x 4 = 24.6). Schedule is the most important thing. All I ask is you make a strong mental note of that right now, and we'll move on (I will tackle schedule, and specifically who to start on Day 1, when we get a lot closer to TI).

Beyond schedule and individual potency as I've already discussed, there's two more things I like to think about before I make my picks: strength of team, and average match-length. When I say strength of team, I simply mean "Bro, how good is that team actually?". The best example I can think of to illustrate my point is w33. As you can see above, w33 was a phenomenal fantasy player in SA Qualis. His average of 17.3 is the third-best fantasy average among cores for all measured data...if he GIVES you a 17.3 average, you're very happy. But I would point out that, generally speaking, winning tends to skew fantasy numbers more positively than losing. paiN did a lot of winning during SA Qualis, but (no disrespect intended), their opponents in SA Qualis were not quite the same level of competition as that of what TI8 will present. Simple question you need to ask yourself: do you believe paiN will do a fair amount of winning on whatever day in question you're debating using w33 in? If so, great. If not, perhaps look for an alternative. Get in the habit of asking yourself this for all sit-start decisions.

As for average match-length, it's a simple concept...the longer a game goes, the more fantasy points get dished out all-around. If you start a player who gets caught up in a 90-minute game, that's a god-send, because odds are your player is AT LEAST scoring above-average. Best case? You get a 40+ FP effort, like the one Mineski's Moon had against VG during the China Super Major (a game that Mineski actually lost, btw). Conversely, 18-minute stomps are bad for everybody, players on the winning team included. The best you can hope for in games like that is to break even. So which teams at TI average the longest matches? I'M GLAD YOU ASKED, I CALCULATED THAT FOR YOU TOO (this is all gathered from the same places as the above fantasy averages are, and the numbers are average minutes/game):

Avg. Match Duration: VG - 44.9 | Newbee - 44.0 | IG - 43.4 | Secret - 42.3 | Mineski - 41.8 | Fnatic - 41.4 | VP - 40.9 | EG - 40.1 | LGD - 40.0 | TNC - 39.9 | OpTic - 39.8 | VGJ.S - 39.6 | VGJ.T - 38.8 | paiN - 38.4 | Winstrike - 38.4 | Serenity - 35.9 | OG - 32.0 | Liquid - 31.8

So obviously, this suggests that VG and Newbee players will be among the safer options, and also kind of helps explain why somehow, no Liquid player projects to be a very good fantasy player (it also makes my jaw drop to think that ana, the second-best fantasy core, plays for the team with the second-fastest match-length...he's really a special fantasy player). It's really not THAT big of a consideration for me, but if I'm truly on the fence between two players, this is a popular tiebreaker of mine.

Lastly, let's talk card-bonuses. One of the most popular questions I got last year went something like "I have a silver Puppey card and a gold Solo card, which one should I play?" Which, is an impossible question to answer because that isn't enough information. Generally speaking, here's how I feel about each of the bonuses: Roshan Kills, Tower Kills and First Bloods don't even move the needle for me (they're almost impossible to predict). Some things help supports and nobody else (camps stacked, wards placed) some things help the people who are not supports (GPM, Last Hit), and some things theoretically help everybody (kill, death, assist, team fight, runes, stuns). It's up to you to gauge how good your card is based on that. Secondly, the effect of bonuses on your score is really pretty overstated...allow me to use an example. Last year, YapzOr averaged the most FP per game from stun duration of any other player, earning 3.5 FP/game from that category alone. Suppose you had a silver YapzOr card that gave 20% Stuns, which on HIM is a great bonus. Let's SAY he met his average and let's SAY he played 4 matches in a day...congratulations, you just earned 0.7 FP per match, or 2.8 FP. YapzOr averaged 15.57 FP per game last year, aka 62.28 FP over that four-match day. Your amazing silver just increased his score to 65.08. And again, I must remind you, this example is what happens when you have the best player at a skill and give him the bonus that specifically compliments THAT skill...most times, you won't get that lucky. The point is stop losing sleep over card bonuses, it's really not that important.

Since we're at the end of this post, as promised, here are the links to my team-specific threads that I wrote during qualifiers in case you want individual player and team breakdowns.

Individual Data Sets for Comparison: Directly Invited Teams | Team Serenity | IG | Winstrike | paiN Gaming | VGJ.Storm| Fnatic | EG | TNC | OG | OpTic

---

Anyway, I think that about covers it. I'll end this post the same way I ended all my posts last year. Remember, I'm not giving you a firm stance on what to do, I'm just giving you the information that will let you make a sound decision.

Happy Gambling.

submitted by /u/SavageSkillet
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When u are Crusader and suddenly learn how to play Meepo

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 06:27 AM PDT

The King

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 05:44 AM PDT

My friend after opening his player cards

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 05:18 PM PDT

Valve should reset the tip limit after every game for all TI8 players during the tournament.

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 02:26 AM PDT

For the memes. If they don't do this, we might not see offensive tips after the day of the group stage and main stage.

submitted by /u/breadstix118
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EE gets ganked

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 08:49 AM PDT

Please 6 month ban any streamers who destroy items or intentionally feed on stream

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 10:08 AM PDT

Stop letting popular players encourage this behavior

submitted by /u/JDW3
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Small retarded fish card

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 03:17 PM PDT

Secret has a new mid player?

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 03:41 PM PDT

Fear in the 2018 player cards

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 02:46 PM PDT

This is all I want from the arcana vote this year

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 03:43 PM PDT

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