Unlabelled Hearthstone - Newbie Tuesdays Weekly Discussion

5/09/2018 12:17:00 am
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Hearthstone - Newbie Tuesdays Weekly Discussion

Newbie Tuesdays Weekly Discussion

Posted: 07 May 2018 05:12 PM PDT

Hello members of the /r/hearthstone community,

This is part of a series of weekly threads aimed at both new and old players from the community. It is designed so that everybody may ask any and all questions regarding the game's mechanics, decks, strategies and more.

Please keep it clean and try to add more than just a one or two word response. As the goal of this post is to increase the community's knowledge, the thought process matters as much as the answer! There is also a Theorycrafting Thursday weekly post, for those who wish to discuss some of the more intricate aspects of the game.

Sticky Threads and Guides - Great resources for new players!

Note: I am a bot. Questions or feedback regarding this thread? Message the moderators.

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Something tells me that the opponent has Baku in his hand

Posted: 08 May 2018 05:23 AM PDT

Jambre with a 61% winrate climb to Legend with Even Warrior

Posted: 08 May 2018 04:58 AM PDT

My take on an original Call to Arms nerf

Posted: 08 May 2018 12:36 AM PDT

I was thinking about how to possibly nerf Call to Arms without changing the Mana cost to an odd number, and came up with this:

https://hearthcards.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/76/bb/df/76/76bbdf76.png

Giving the card Echo makes it worse early on but more valuable later in the game. The major concern is probably that Echo is not a permanent keyword and was not around for Kobolds. Still, I find this to be an interesting way of changing the card.

EDIT: Changing the wording to "Repeatable this turn" would actually work, similar to Unstable Evolution, as u/souvlakiAcme pointed out in the comments.

submitted by /u/Gwynlix
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The simplest, fairest way to nerf Spiteful Summoner

Posted: 08 May 2018 08:50 AM PDT

Mech Warper no longer discounts mechs made by Sonya

Posted: 08 May 2018 05:10 AM PDT

Proof: https://imgur.com/a/LW19etC As you can see there are two Mech Warpers on board, however the one cost Scorp-o-matic from Sonya's effect is still not discounted. If you replay one of the Mech Warpers though, the discount applies as you would expect it to.

This really kills Sonya + Mech Warper + Scorp-o-matic meme decks

It seems that this has been around for a while now, here is a post from almost a month ago on the same issue.

And here is a video showing the combo working properly, just over one month ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esmV33c48qQ

submitted by /u/ninjaboyAlex
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A image from iyingdi.cn Chinese Card Game site. Author: akimo

Posted: 07 May 2018 12:12 PM PDT

Trying to kill 10+ Voidlords is fun

Posted: 08 May 2018 05:51 AM PDT

Thank you golden chameleos :)

Posted: 07 May 2018 05:56 PM PDT

Can we at least agree that Spiteful Summoner is fair in Arena?!

Posted: 07 May 2018 05:45 PM PDT

Wild King Togwaggle Druid mirror matches get out of hand pretty fast

Posted: 07 May 2018 11:16 PM PDT

Sylvanas-Tess Interactions

Posted: 08 May 2018 02:05 AM PDT

He Only Has a 0.004% Chance to Live so We Should Be Goo..... Oh.

Posted: 08 May 2018 07:11 AM PDT

As an avid (primarily wild) player - Dear Iksar, regarding your posts from last night

Posted: 07 May 2018 03:21 PM PDT

After reading your follow up from last night, let me start off by thanking you Iksar, for providing information to the community - something that is appreciated and i think we all wish would happen more frequently.

One part however caught my attention:

"We talked about Barnes for awhile but ultimately removed it from the list of cards we were considering changing, at least for the time being. Most Wild decks have some way to deal with Barnes, and he creates some interesting archetypes that are fun for people to play. I would agree it can be frustrating to lose to a T4 Barnes, but in the end we have to weigh all the positives and negatives of a card and make a judgment call. For now, we think there are enough answers out there for Barnes strategies that it doesn't warrant making a change."

especially this part:

"Most Wild decks have some way to deal with Barnes"

I agree that for instance losing to a spell hunter t4 14/15 combined stats barnes when you don't have an answer can be frustrating but is -somewhat- fair, especially since there are a few answers available to most classes (and how massively you have to cripple your deck to make that somewhat consistent).

I heavily disagree that the significant Barnes 'problemdeck' - big priest, falls in that category. there are very very few answers, and it's definitely not the case that 'most wild decks' have a way to deal with it - since almost only transform effects can do so. so that leaves:

  • Shaman (hex, devolve - and there aren't a lot of decks that would consider playing both)
  • Mage (poly, potion of poly - same story).
  • Rogue (sap)

[edit:] - Priest (PoM, although a little conditionally - more on that in the comments below)

It also requires having a 2 of card in hand by turn 4.

Tinkmaster is the only neutral option and since it's also random target i'm not really sure we could ever really consider that a way to deal with it. So at least in my opinion, that just leaves 3 classes that can kind of deal with it, if they run the card(s) required to do so - and even then, the case of a 1/1 yshaarj pulling something else makes it entirely impossible to deal with it, afaik.

Let's compare that to the T5 NSW board of doom:

  • Paladin - equality+combocard, enter the coliseum or existing board+Tarim
  • Druid - poison seeds
  • Priest - lightbomb
  • Warrior - brawl, reckless flurry
  • Warlock - shadowflaming your own mountain giant or PO'd 4+ atk creature, bloodbloom+nether/doom (very niche ofc)
  • Mage - nova + doomsayer (not reliable but can work)
  • Hunter - dreadscale + poisonous adapt (i'm kidding, i'm kidding..)

So that's 4 classes than have a clear and direct answer to it, some even more than 1. 2 more classes that are a bit more conditional - i'm obviously not counting the hunter one.

So both on paper as well as in my own experience (which obviously doesn't mean that much since it's comparative to the overall data a very limited sample size) - there are a lot more answers to NSW than to barnes. Or am i missing something here?

And then there's something else: If you can't answer the NSW, you lose (almost) immediately. if you can't answer the barnes, you lose eventually but (almost) inevitably.

Depending on the type of person you are, losing to Barnes feels worse (since you realize them having t4 barnes is less likely, since it's a 1 off card) and is just accentuated since it's a drawn out process if you play it out.

Last, but not least: I've personally queued into significantly more Big Priests than Nagalocks. Can just be a statistical anomaly of course since the sample size is meaningless - but there will be other players for which the same holds true. And according to HSReplays data nagalock has just had a 4.1% popularity in ranked wild over the past 30 days - so 1 in 20 games. considering the type of cancerous 15%+ popularity decks we've had in the past.. i'm actually not that bothered by Nagalock. I agree that it probably should be changed.. but if you do, please, please change the power level of the more popular just as problematic decks as well. i.e. call to arms/tarim and barnes and a meaningful piece of cubelock-pie at the very least. otherwise this is like cutting off the shooting hand of billy the kid and calling it a day, expecting all gunslingers to vanish into thin air. [edit:] I initially intentionally didn't mention it because i didn't figure it was relevant to the discussion but just so it is reflected in my post and so it states in what ladder bracket most of my games are - in case it matters at all: i'm a multi legend player, both before the introduction of standard as well as after. typically get the golden epic and then just mess around doing quests, typically reach rank 3-4 doing so during a season. so most of my games are in that rank 3-5 bracket.

One last thought - i know this isn't something that the guys at activision that only care about the bottom line would want you to do, but as a fan of hearthstone yourself, maybe you empathize with the player base and would advocate for us in the matter: when you change key cards that completely change the viability of another card, consider giving us the ability to disenchant that card for full (or at least increased) value as well. the best example i can give is that a huge amount of players crafted clockwork giants to play nagalock. that card other than a tiny blip ages ago in mill rogue (very niche deck at the time) has never seen play and i can't imagine will see play again if you guys nerf NSW. 800 dust isn't a drop in the bucket for the majority of players - and it's obviously not the only card a lot of people would have crafted, just the best example since it's usability in competitive decks is the most limited. maybe something to think about for you. Oh and while i have your ear.. the ability to upgrade cards to golden, even if it's just ~20% cheaper than disenchant regular and recraft as golden, would be much appreciated!

submitted by /u/grim_rpr
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Hand sculpted hearthstones!

Posted: 08 May 2018 08:16 AM PDT

I almost felt bad for this warlock... Almost

Posted: 07 May 2018 03:15 PM PDT

Gilnean Vigilante made me a rich man.

Posted: 08 May 2018 06:05 AM PDT

Hearthstone: The Gathering by /u/shiraiku - 4 years old, but still top gold!

Posted: 07 May 2018 01:08 PM PDT

And then God said: "No 7 wins for you"

Posted: 08 May 2018 08:22 AM PDT

Only took me 112 Bosses until I finally beat Priest, finally finishing my Dungeon Run

Posted: 07 May 2018 09:41 PM PDT

I play HS since beta, did 11 wins countless times but went 12 wins today for the first time ever! Never give up!

Posted: 08 May 2018 06:10 AM PDT

The crown looks perfect on toki

Posted: 08 May 2018 03:53 AM PDT

Playing Naga Sea Witch to Legend: Days 1 & 2

Posted: 07 May 2018 09:25 PM PDT

Hey all! I made this thread yesterday and am now posting an update for it. A few notes before I get to that though.

  • I picked basically the worst time to do this; meaning I have not played NEARLY as much as I will need to to get to legend these past 2 days. I just started a new job today, so I'm a little bit busy. However, I am committed to this and will have more time tomorrow and later this week. Just know that my time was NOT well spent on this task these 2 days.
  • I also wanted to thank people for all the comments on my last thread. Baring a few people who really hate this deck, it was all very constructive and I feel very motivated to complete this challenge now.
  • Since some people seem to want me to stream this, I am going to leave a comment on this thread to see how many. If it gets a good number of upvotes I will know that there is an audience for it, and I will plan to do that on my next days playing. So, if that's something you're interested in, go upvote that comment (or downvote it if you aren't interested, do whatever you like).

With all that said, here's what I accomplished and found:

Time played: ~5 hours, 40 minutes (should definitely track this better)

Rank: 19

Games played: 36

Winrate: 69%

Class Specific Breakdown: here

Of my 36 games, I drew naga in 25 of them. I won 19 of those games. My 6 losses were 2 to aggro decks, 2 to fatigue decks that could deal with the giants (kingsbane and deadman's hand), 1 was to a severe misplay, and 1 was to a very lucky shudderwock deck. Of these 19 wins, 8 of them were from playing naga on turn 5, or turn 4 with coin. I also lost one game when playing naga on 5, because even pally rolled poison evolve on his recruits.

What I've observed:

Clearly, the deck is very strong when drawing naga. What surprised me is how strong it is when you don't have naga. Most of the giants can just be played, and that's a lot of pressure to deal with. I also find the warlock one is surprisingly good at dealing with aggro. I think I'm using my resources pretty inefficiently though, which does cost me some games. I hope to get better at that.

As far as what I'm playing against, I think a quarter of my games were decks that I couldn't fit into a meta archetype. I actually lost to a murloc mage pretty early on, who just used strong murlocs to get a board early then burn me out. Now that I'm a higher rank I'm seeing more "normal" stuff, and I'm actually doing better against it. I haven't played any mirror matches yet. You'll see in the class breakdown that I started playing naga mage near the end (thanks for the idea /u/Wonder_Buster), which I've decided I like more than warlock. It is absolutely worse though, I find I'm basically screwed against aggro.

I'm probably missing data, so if there's anything anyone wants to know just ask. I tracked A LOT of stuff, I just didn't want to make this thread too long. I'll post another thread in 1 or 2 day(s) but I'll be monitoring comments pretty closely until then. Thanks again for all the support!

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