Unlabelled Super Smash Bros - Daily Discussion Thread 02/16/18

2/17/2018 01:13:00 pm
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Super Smash Bros - Daily Discussion Thread 02/16/18

Daily Discussion Thread 02/16/18

Posted: 15 Feb 2018 11:10 PM PST

Welcome to the Daily Discussion Thread series on /r/smashbros! Inspired by /r/SSBM and /r/hiphopheads's DDTs, you can post here:

  • General questions about Smash

  • General discussion (tentatively allowing for some off-topic discussion)

  • "Light" content that might not have been allowed as its own post (please keep it about Smash)

Other guidelines:

  • Be good to one another.

  • While DDT can be lax, please abide by our general rules. No linking to illegal/pirated stuff, no flaming, game debates, etc.

  • Please keep your meme spam contained to the sticky comment provided below.

If you have any suggestions about future DDTs or anything else subreddit related, please send them our way! Thanks in advance!

Also, if you want to chat with other /r/smashbros users you can do so via our Discord channel.

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Marth, The King of the Pirates

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 06:08 AM PST

Hungrybox Destroys FOX News Anchor at Super Smash Bros Melee

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 12:14 PM PST

Tafokints plans to launch a car-sized GameCube into space

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 11:29 AM PST

"The PGR will not consider any tournament that has Bayo banned a valid tournament" - Suar

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 01:34 PM PST

This Bayo situation is deeper than we think. [smash 4]

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 06:31 PM PST

TLDR: I won't give one. This is a must-read, but if this is too long, please, at least read the final edit. This may be our only chance.

So I was doing some regular shit-posting and saw that another user mentioned that BernardLoop's article would release on Feb 19th. Upon hours (.5 hours so far) of research this is what I've discovered. Original post here..

Here is the comment copied and I will continue with my findings on this thread:

the Salem Withch Trials began in February according to Wikipedia. Looks like it'll be done in May. What big tournament is in May?

Edit 1: Oh. God. I went to smash.gg, filtered for smash 4 and May AND LOOK AT THE NAME OF THE FIRST TOURNAMENT

Edit 2: This is even deeper than I thought. The first witch to be executed shares THE SAME LAST NAME as Saleem "Salem" Young, which proves that he is the angered ancestor exacting revenge on society.

Edit 3: There were 4 execution days. On the final day Eight were executed. I googled the most recent top 50 pgr, and counted up the Bayo icons, and guess how many I saw? Eight

Edit 4: You guys won't believe this. After the Salem Witch Trials ended, an outside reverend came in and forced the accusers to sit with the accused. Look at that reverend's first name and notice that it matches another smasher's first name.

Edit 5: There was a man accused of witchcraft, however, he escaped and is known as one of the few survivors of the witch trials. His name is John Alden Jr.. Why is this important? Well, John was a soldier. And guess what his rank was? You guessed it - he was a fucking CAPTAIN!

Edit 6: How could we have been so blind? How could we not see the source? The most powerful of them all? According to this, witches carry puppets or dolls with them.. We thought he was our hero at the last tournament, but look closely and you'll see the doll.

Final edit: The last witch to die was Goody Glover. Her initials - GG. The first 2GG tournament? Pink Fresh - A Bayonetta Main. A BAYONNETTA MAIN STARTED THE ENTIRE 2GG CURSE.

2GG has known from the beginning. The only solution? The 2GG curse must be broken. But by who? Is this why some are against the 2GG Ban tournament? Are they witches too?

submitted by /u/2018IsBetterThan2017
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Armada's thoughts on banning Bayonetta

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 03:32 PM PST

Yo does anyone know who bootygod69 is?

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 03:05 PM PST

He has a 99% win rate on anthers and is ranked second. Who is this man and where can I get his autograph.

submitted by /u/dawcpa
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Some anti-Bayo tips (aside from "just SDI lol")

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 09:27 AM PST

Hey guys,

I wrote up a short, basic guide on some stuff we can do to better combat Bayonetta for Twitter/my local scene's Facebook group and since I'm trying to be more active on Smash Reddit I thought I'd share it here.

A couple of quick things: this guide is intended to help mid-level players in the Bayo matchup specifically, and I'm intentionally avoiding SDI/DI pattern advice because a) I'm no expert in that/others can explain it much better, and b) I want to showcase the fact that there's a lot of other mistakes I see players make in the Bayo matchup besides simple DI/SDI errors and I think working on the matchup from this angle needs a spotlight with all the "just SDI lol" memes going around.

Anyway I'm gonna cut this preamble short cuz the guide itself is decently long, feel free to leave a comment and let me know what you think, or if you play Bayo and want to correct me/contribute your thoughts I'd appreciate it.

Twitlonger link: https://t.co/4497lgP87Q

Google Doc link if you prefer to read there: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fRikdlDH9Xz2W15P8iOKGRoxtnWl9YiMObuYIqiFDUU/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks for reading and happy witch hunting,

--Lord Sturm

submitted by /u/lordsturm473
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You've probably heard of the Melee Piano Guy, so I'm here to bring some piano love to PM! Hope you enjoy this version of the epic PM main theme

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 11:15 AM PST

Bayonetta Data Analysis Article Release Date & Information

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 05:33 AM PST

Intro

Hi. You may have heard or seen on reddit (or on ZeRo's stream) that I intended to release a Bayonetta statistical breakdown by Friday. However, due to sheer workload, the worst-case scenario I alluded to has occurred and the date is moved to Monday.

Unlike previous, more loose examples of me shifting dates, this date is definitive and the delay only occurred because after several days of consistent work it became clear to me that I could not finish Section 3 of the article (covering match-up data) in time.

At the recommendation of not rushing it, I have chosen to go the "quality" route.

What are you covering, exactly?

A lot.

This project has ballooned into a massive undertaking, examining over 200 power rankings, nearly two years worth of data collected from over 1000 tournaments, and examining character-to-character match-ups involving Bayonetta over the course of her lifespan.

There are other subjects I won't quite spoil, of course, as this article is tentatively split up into seven separate sections. As of now, Section 2 (Player Data) is currently the most complete, with the latter most sections being dedicated to conclusion & sources.

If you want a ballpark length, the article will be roughly 15000-20000 words.

Subjects being covered:

-At length player dissection.

-Tournament statistics in varying formats to best determine how prominent Bayonetta has been over her lifetime.

-Match-up data against the data-indicated top 10. For reference, this will be in a format similar to the Pikachu one posted, but I will be using nine select ranked Bayonetta mains.

-Power Ranking analysis across dozens of countries representing nearly 3000 ranked players.

-General overview of Anti/Pro ban stances.

Everything will be sourced.

Why is this Data Analysis important?

If you care about Bayonetta in any capacity, love or hate, I am using two years of data collection experience in order to break down her tournament & player information.

I'm doing so in a way that will, as far as data is concerned, hopefully settle a number of issues, confirm certain claims, and refute a number of others.

As I am very experienced in this particular field of discussion, my article's production has been very smooth and simple, if extremely time consuming.

Is the article biased in favor of Pro or Anti ban?

I go wherever the data takes me. Much of the article is interpreting what the data means based on my lengthy experience in collecting and dissecting character data.

To emphasize, this article is based primarily in conclusions based on data over the course of the last two years. While opinions may come out occasionally, this will not be a highly opinionated editorial. It is intended to be more similar to an actual scientific paper.

Release Date - Monday, February 19th

12:00 PM CST

1:PM EST

10:00 AM PST

The article will be posted at my blog: https://intheloop837.wordpress.com/

I will post it here on the noted date, as well as my twitter: https://twitter.com/LoopBarnard

This project is for the sake of the community as I've sidelined a number of projects I was more interested in doing in favor of breaking down this particular subject in a speedy fashion. It's been fun, and I really wanted it out today, but dissecting everything has taken quite some time.

submitted by /u/BarnardsLoop
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Mang0's "secret" tourney

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 08:34 PM PST

If Smash 4 is "Dying", character bans won't save it.

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 11:09 AM PST

They won't cause a big bloom in viewership, the game would likely lose another large portion of the playerbase because Bayonetta has a large amount of players. Banning these characters won't just cause everyone and their moms to flock to Smash 4. The only thing that would likely do that is a port and new DLC.

Fighting games lose their playerbases as they age it's common, hell it's been reported FighterZ has lost 80% of it's playerbase on Steam and we know that game isn't dying anytime soon. Banning characters would likely decrease the fatigue of people already commited to this game but it won't bring others in or bring others back. Lastly, character bans won't even last. Smaller tournaments might abide by them but I honestly do not see places like Evo keeping them. Why? We've seen this before, Meta Knight. A character 10000 times more broken in his game than Bayo is in singles or Cloud is in doubles. Meta Knight's ban didn't last, it really didn't even happen on the national scale and that trickled down back to regionals and locals until Meta Knight basically wasn't banned anymore in Brawl.

This is just my opinion though, but if this game is truly dying which I don't think it is, I never even heard of it dying until I seen Zero's video pop up, than character bans won't save it.

submitted by /u/Zenith_24tee
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Salem's thoughts on the Bayo ban situation.

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 02:42 PM PST

People so quick to use recency bias for one tournament to use for their arguments on bayonetta. WHILE EVERYONE WASN'T THERE EITHER CAUSE TOKAIGI??? Hush and wait for more results from more majors. Bayonetta ban topic is a waste of time and twitter can move on with that.

He also has a conversation with Dabuz and Esam on the topic:

Esam: 3 of the 5 best bayo slayers didn't play day 2 (Me, Elegant, Leo), one of them won, and the other knocked the other bayos out

Salem: People just mad they lost to the same bayo's they always do even though if the bayo slayers were around they'd just lose to them. MAKES NO SENSE

Dabuz: I'm not on the Bayo ban wave but I have to say you're completely handwaving the problems people have with Bayo. For lots of them it's not just losing to Bayo, it's how she affects the game from player and spectator perspectives.

Salem: ? Everyone wasn't there, they're complying cause the filled spots for those not there is bayo. Their argument is trash and just recency bias.

Dabuz: I agree with you. Just saying you don't address the point and in fact make it look like you don't get what people are whining about when you say it's because people are losing to her.

Salem: Don't really care since talking over and over about it does nothing. Trying to sound smart about it does nothing. Just complain and telling people hush does tons wonders since that's all people do, something actually effective DABUZ.

submitted by /u/Pyrossb
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Dexterity +1000

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 06:34 PM PST

I asked my dad to name some of the Smash 4 characters. Here are the interesting ones.

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 04:39 PM PST

Zelda: (After explaining that she looks different in every version of the game) Chameleon

Toon Link: Keebler

WFT: Wii Lady

Shulk: Sticky the boy (because he has a big stick)

Sheik: Ultraman wannabe

Roy: Swordie Morty

Pacman: "That's Pacman, but how come he has hands?"

Marth: Marlow

Charizard: Charlemagne

Link: Keebler Teen

Kirby: Balloon Spalookie

submitted by /u/JB2199
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The PGR invalidating Bayo-banned tournaments is a step in the wrong direction for the community

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 03:27 PM PST

(I'd like to start by apologizing if some of this is hard to read, I don't think I'm a very good writer)

As many people know, Suar has recently said that the PGR "will not consider any event that has Bayo banned as a valid tournament." To many, this is not a surprise, this is common sense. However I would argue that whether or not you want bayo banned, not considering bayo banned tournaments valid is dangerous for the smash community as a whole. There are several points I feel support this:

1) There is currently a precedent for tournaments which don't fit the Recommended Ruleset being allowed. For instance, Clutch City Clash is a tournament series that runs 3 stock, and it has been allowed on both PGR seasons it has run for. While banning bayo is a more severe difference, both of these are changes to the ruleset that can affect how matches turn out and allowing one but not the other seems hypocritical.

2) This step sets a benchmark for the PGR being able to control TOs. Setting a precedent that, at the tip of the hat, the PGR can invalidate a tournament makes TOs less likely to take risks with their tournaments. After all, why would people want to run a tournament that people might not enter due to it not counting? This effectively means the PGR could control how all tournaments run, regardless of what the players want. This can also stifle the growth of the community. If the PGR can stop tournaments from experimenting with the rules, the scene can stagnate and new ideas that would be healthy can be shot down instantly.

3) Ignoring the community. As of me begining to type this paragraph, 2GG has released a poll with nearly 15 and a half thousand votes to gauge community interest in a new tournament with various changes, such as a bayonetta ban. Of those, 32% (or around 4,879 people) have voted in favor of banning bayonetta. Even considering the options mutually exclusive (e.g. someone voting for no lylat means they're in favor of no ban, and there's no overlap) that is a huge amount of the community. That's over 3 times as many people as entered Smash 4 at Smash Con or EVO 2017, nearly twice as many as EVO 2016. Whether or not this is the majority, this is a huge group of people within the community that clearly want the character gone, and the PGR taking steps directly against that isn't fair to them.

4) Ignoring valid data. banning bayo-banned tournaments makes the rankings objectively less accurate. This can be said about weeklies too, but I understand the reasoning there. In any case, a tournament that would normally reach PGR qualification is sure to have PGR players at them, and with that comes sets. If Ally and KEN play, or Nairo and Tsu, or Leo and Choco, should these sets not be counted just because they were at a tournament with no bayonetta? None of these players play bayonetta in tournament (afaik) so why shouldn't their set be just as valid? These sets would be wiped from the statistical record, deemed invalid for the rankings, and thus would make the rankings less accurate. If the PGR strives to be an accurate ranking system, then invalidating these sets for an unrelated reason is a bad move.

In the end, I don't want this post to be pro or anti ban. While I myself am pro-ban, I think the community should decide for themselves whether or not she should be banned, and the PGR stifling that puts the power of many in the hands of a few that can make on the spot rulings. While I do not expect that the PGR would manipulate the community for their own whims, I don't like that decisions like this set the precedent for them to be able to fully decide what or which tournaments they determine valid regardless of whether they fit the usual PGR criteria.

P.S. I don't mean this to be a personal attack on the PGR, I think they've done a lot of good for the community, but I don't like the idea that a small group of people can go over the heads of thousands, if not the majority, of the community.

submitted by /u/SatanicWatermelon
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#St. Louis Smash Scene #BANS #Bayo and #Cloud in order to fully rid their scene of #heterosexuals #BANTHEHETS

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 10:11 PM PST

St. Louis' next upcoming monthly/regional/national/local/universal tournament of power featuring free pizza and minimal controller throwing will be taking initiative into furthering the META of Smash 4 by BANNING Bayonetta, Cloud, and Vegeta, along with every sword character*. These characters have been plaguing both our local and the national scene, causing players to quit and viewership to drop. Please join us in this movement to further the life of this game we all love.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/300491285272330241/414302298815201280/unknown.png

*In Doubles

submitted by /u/CrimePoop
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Smash'N'Splash 4 - The Champs Return

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 02:03 PM PST

Bayo, Cloud, Lylat, and Customs discussion stream @ 8:30 PM Central taking viewer calls!

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 03:27 PM PST

As everyone is well aware Smash 4 twitter has been exploding. WELL let's talk about it. Tonight at 8:30 PM Central time Beastly, Batmayne, and myself will discuss banning Cloud in dubs, Customs, banning Lylat, and of course banning Bayo. check it out at https://www.twitch.tv/tsmcow We will also be taking viewer questions and viewer calls through out if anyone would like to join the discussion! Make sure to stop by and say hello!

submitted by /u/TSMCow
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Smash Valley: Lucky #7 - Seeding

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 10:48 AM PST

  1. Liquid` Hungrybox (Jigglypuff)
  2. DIG l Lucky (Fox)
  3. P1 l Duck (Samus)
  4. Zain (Marth)
  5. Swedish Delight (Sheik)
  6. lloD (Peach)
  7. Balance l KJH (Fox)
  8. bc l MikeHaze (Fox)
  9. Hax (Fox)
  10. VGBC l Rishi (Marth, Fox)
  11. Ginger (Falco)
  12. Drephen (Sheik)
  13. Sir l Abate (Luigi)
  14. iBDW (Fox)
  15. Jerry (Fox)
  16. Kaeon (Fox)
  17. homemadewaffles (Falco, Fox)
  18. mayb (Peach)
  19. OES l MilkMan (Fox)
  20. EGtv l R2DLiu (Fox)
  21. Atomsk (Jigglypuff)
  22. sm:)e l Boyd (Ice Climbers)
  23. TheRealThing (Falco)
  24. lint (Falco)
  25. BERT l Qerb (Mr. Game and Watch)
  26. Cool Lime (Ice Climbers)
  27. BIG KID (Jigglypuff)
  28. hat (Sheik)
  29. Milhous (Sheik, Marth)
  30. bobby big ballz (Falco)
  31. Heartstrings (Sheik)
  32. NBR l SluG (Ice Climbers)
Pools Finals Winners Top 16 Winners Quarters Winners Semis
Hungrybox vs SluG Hungrybox vs Kaeon Hungrybox vs MikeHaze Hungrybox vs Zain
Lucky vs Heartstrings Lucky vs Jerry Lucky vs KJH Lucky vs Duck
Duck vs bobby big ballz Duck vs iBDW Duck vs lloD
Zain vs Milhous Zain vs Abate Zain vs Swedish Delight
Swedish Delight vs hat Swedish Delight vs Drephen
lloD vs BIG KID lloD vs Ginger
KJH vs Cool Lime KJH vs Rishi
MikeHaze vs Qerb MikeHaze vs Hax
Hax vs lint
Rishi vs TheRealThing
Ginger vs Boyd
Drephen vs Atomsk
Abate vs R2DLiu
iBDW vs MilkMan
Jerry vs mayb
Kaeon vs homemadewaffles
submitted by /u/kenniky
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Robin's instant turn around out of run. (Grounded B reverse thunder)

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 07:01 PM PST

A little Danish Samus compilation to get your mind off of the discussions going on

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 02:51 PM PST

aMSa just uploaded vods for bgw19 so have some twitch and youtube links for top 6

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 09:39 PM PST

【関東スマブラDX大会】BGW19 sets - table of twitch and youtube links (only for recorded top 6 sets cause I couldn't find loser's eighths)

Full playlist (in reverse order, so the first vid listed in it is actually grand finals): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLssBmYCAcRdmCvvcXqKATfbDk8nTbO-pQ

BGW19 Bracket: http://challonge.com/BGW19

Set Name Youtube VOD Twitch VOD with Timestamp
WSF part1 VGBC aMSa(Yoshi) vs Rudolph(Marth) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvXC3kebb1A https://www.twitch.tv/videos/227894680?t=02h55m57s
WSF part2 VGBC aMSa(Yoshi) vs Rudolph(Marth) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo4nibwOx4g https://www.twitch.tv/videos/227926530
WSF Shippu(Fox,Peach) vs CLG SFAT(Fox) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7mQGEi-rIQ https://www.twitch.tv/videos/227894680?t=02h36m
WF CLG SFAT(Fox) vs VGBC aMSa(Yoshi) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpK1IlRFL4U https://www.twitch.tv/videos/227933767?t=15m33s
LSF Rudolph(Marth) vs Shippu(Peach) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr7pl-PgZoU https://www.twitch.tv/videos/227933767?t=39m13s
LF Rudolph(Marth) vs CLG SFAT(Fox) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn3sOJHqOhM https://www.twitch.tv/videos/227933767?t=01h06m11s
GFs Set 1 CLG SFAT (Fox) vs VGBC aMSa(Yoshi) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaAepztbYkM https://www.twitch.tv/videos/227933767?t=01h24m17s
GFs Set 2 CLG SFAT (Fox) vs VGBC aMSa(Yoshi) https://youtu.be/JaAepztbYkM?t=16m3s https://www.twitch.tv/videos/227933767?t=01h40m12s

show these sets some love and all the others at bgw19 too if you have time

submitted by /u/SpireGG
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The Deep is back

Posted: 16 Feb 2018 02:06 PM PST

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