Unlabelled Civilization - Feels like owning the Statue of Liberty is a liability, not a bonus.

2/11/2018 11:28:00 am
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Civilization - Feels like owning the Statue of Liberty is a liability, not a bonus.

Feels like owning the Statue of Liberty is a liability, not a bonus.

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 12:23 PM PST

So first off, I'm loving the new expansion. Long-distance war and colonialism has become so much more interesting.

Since cities arn't yours forever anymore, and will revolt and become a "free city" if they get surrounded by your foes it makes for a bunch of really interesting game situations. For example: When you set sail far away from your own borders and take over an enemy's city now, that fucker is HARD to hold on to, you constantly need to have a heavy military presence to keep recapturing it, or devote your dedications, policies, and precious precious governors to keeping things in line... And that's why you should NEVER build the Statue of Liberty.

The Statue of Liberty has a base production cost of 1240, and gives the following "bonuses":

  1. Provides 2 settlers when built. In the Industrial Era. Whoopie?

  2. All of your cities within 6 tiles are always at 100% loyalty. This is terrible.

Right off the bat you might think the second "bonus" seems pretty mediocre. The wonder is built on coast adjacent to land and a harbor, this is already really annoying, as you ideally sandwich a harbor next to sea resources, you can't build anything on reefs, plus the other coast-land-harbor adjacent wonders, new fisheries improvement and other tile improvements mean it's highly unlikely that you will want to give up that tile even if you have a developed city that's got the spare production available for you to build a wonder.

Even if you do have an ideal spot, and a city itching to build a wonder, what are the odds that your high-production, fully developed city ALSO is surrounded by cities with severe loyalty problems which couldn't be better addressed by water parks or military units?

So okay, it's mediocre, the production you "save" on 2 settlers is nowhere near the cost to built it, the cities capable of building a wonder are probably not the ones you have loyalty issues with, and it's hard to find a good spot to build the thing, but how is it a "liability"?

The problem is that the wonder can be captured, and if your SoL gets captured it benefits your enemy.

In Rise and Fall the loyalty mechanic is pretty effective at passively protecting a civ's inner cities, making it a lot harder to strike at the enemy's homeland since even when you capture a city of theirs loyalty will usually prevent you from holding onto your gains for more than a few turns... It's no longer possible to surgically strike at the enemy's capital, leave the rest of his empire intact, and walk away. That city is going to flip right back in about 4 turns. This is nice, it makes domination victories a lot more involved and much harder to cheese with a few artillery and a helicopter.

However, if the captured city has the SoL you're Shit outta Luck, since suddenly this city AND EVERY CITY NEAR IT will never flip back, those liberty-loving bastards will back the occupying invaders 100% and no amount of bread and circuses will ever return them to you.

In all of the games I've played so far in the new expansion the city that built the statue of liberty has become my number one target for conquest since it removes the biggest barrier to warfare in the expansion. It's honestly a little disappointing that I can suddenly just forget about those captured/occupied cities and never have to devote any effort to keeping them in line.

submitted by /u/gmano
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Uh-oh

Posted: 09 Feb 2018 10:54 PM PST

The Death of Forward Settling

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 04:38 PM PST

In my first game of Rise and Fall the Cree (who was my Ally at this point) Forward settled me by putting his 3rd city between my first and second. Because of the new loyalty mechanic, that city flipped within 20 turns. This is amazing! No longer do we even have to declare war or carefully guard our borders for settlers!

submitted by /u/HumanTheTree
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I wanted to take a small nap and told my wife to wake me in an hour. She then started a game of Civ...

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 12:39 PM PST

I'm so well rested now

submitted by /u/Taco_Bell_CEO
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It's back! Circumnavigation is back!

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 03:28 AM PST

The most satisfying national park in R&F

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 05:20 PM PST

I present to you - St. Basil's Porn (with special appearance by Eyjafjallajökull)

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 12:51 PM PST

PSA: There is no warmongering penalty for razing a captured free city

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 09:07 AM PST

My friend and I played the same Single Player game to see how our play styles and the AI differed.

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 11:37 AM PST

That's a shame we don't get to see our history timeline after finishing the game

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 02:40 AM PST

I just finished the game and was disappointed that the end screen was the same as in vanilla. Timelines are cool and I was almost sure I will see mine after the game. That's a weird choice not to implement them. It would be a great substitute for timelapse that people miss from previous civs.

submitted by /u/kuwetka
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BUG: Liberating Forbidden City as Gorgo makes you loose the extra wildcard slot

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 06:50 AM PST

Since the bug thread got unsticked I've decided to make my on thread.

So, if you play as Gorgo you get an extra Wildcard Policy Slot, Forbidden City Wonder gives the same bonus, what happened to me today was: I conquered* a city which had this wonder AND was originally from an Ally.

So I've decided to liberate the city as I had been getting a lot of war mongering penalties, to my surprise I get immediately greeted with a "Fill Policy Slots" button, I click it, all my policies are empty and I've lost Gorgo's Wildcard Bonus (from 2 slots went to 1).

So I load the save just before getting the city and decide to keep it this time, I get the FC's bonus and keep 3 slots.

What I think it happens: while I'm deciding if I keep the city or not the game sets FC's as mine but doesn't give the bonus, when I give it up, it checks I've lost control of FC and remove it's bonus, but since it hadn't given it yet, removes another slot instead.

*note: I didn't actually conquer the city, I've got it as part of peace deal negotiation - not sure if makes a difference.

submitted by /u/ihaveaninja
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The Mekewap Casino is open!

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 10:26 AM PST

"Where we're going, we don't need roads!"

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 04:29 PM PST

Gustave Eiffel completing the Eiffel Tower (1630, colourised)

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 03:41 AM PST

PSA: if you declare war to a civ through Emergency, you can wipe them out without any warmonger penalty at all (even after emergency finished)

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 03:18 AM PST

Just had it in my game, Arabia took Hong Kong, so I joined the emergency to take it back. I then proceed to take all his other cities. At first I razed some 1-population cities, thinking it is the anti-spamming mechanic that set my Warmonger Penalty to None.

Then I took a 4-population city, also no penalty at all, my cities also didn't suffer any War Weariness. I then took his last city, also his Capital. No one denounce me for being warmonger, and I don't get any diplomacy penalty for that!

submitted by /u/datvm
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Actually trying to be in the dark ages....

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 08:59 AM PST

With Rise and Fall I am actually trying to be in a Dark age every alternate era. The Dark age bonuses are really good for whatever scenario you are in, need more science, need more production, need a better army. Even if nothing is Particularly needed, go Isolationism and get that sweet internal trading bonus. The down sides for the dark policies are not as bad when you plan for them properly. Even the loyalty hit is not as bad unless you are super spread out, and even if you are you would have had some ways of maintaining frontier loyalty anyway. As if the dark age Christmas was not over yet, the Heroic age immediately after it is a huge boost for your civilization and also gives you the perfect time to setup for when you throw your people into the next dark age.

Honestly I feel like I lost out on the best scenario if I get a Normal age, and its pretty meh when I get a regular Golden age. I think the best case is if you can maintain the Dark -> Heroic -> Dark cycle by managing when you get your era scores.

Don't know how historically accurate this is but it seems pretty weird that a leader would purposely throw his empire into the trash only to be a Hero when he pulls them back out. That's some Machiavellian level thinking right there to keep doing this repeatedly.

Tl;dr Throw your kingdom into the gutter by bringing a dark age then feel the pride of being a Savior for pulling them back up to a Heroic age for most efficiency.

submitted by /u/freeze-dried-tuna
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Three lakes, two polder triangles and Huey Teocalli.

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 09:44 AM PST

Shaka making me reconsider life

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 11:58 AM PST

Lmao, worst spawn ever?

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 11:47 AM PST

I wish Firaxis created a Civilopedia offline app. Anyone else hopes for it?

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 05:02 PM PST

My Anglo-Saxon mod is now compatible with Rise and Fall!

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 04:50 PM PST

Civs you're allied with shouldn't be able to attack your citystates

Posted: 09 Feb 2018 08:53 PM PST

It's incredibly frustrating when a civ you're allied with just decides to attack the city state you've been suzerain of for the last 3000 years. There's no discussion option to tell them to stop attacking, you can't do a war of liberation because you're allied, and you can't trade for them to make peace. If there is nothing the player can do about allies attacking their city states, it should be flat out disallowed. In civ V there was at least the "guarantee protection" option available, which would make you automatically come to the defense of the city state, and prevented allies from attacking it since they'd declare war on you.

submitted by /u/alexanderyou
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End game Dark Age policies are pretty flavourful

Posted: 09 Feb 2018 11:13 PM PST

Taj Mahal is the new OP wonder.

Posted: 10 Feb 2018 10:52 AM PST

Pretty much guarantees a permanent golden age for the rest of the game, we're gonna need a balance patch for the game sometime. Tamar can get 100-200 envoys mid game pretty easily.

submitted by /u/Snizzysnootz
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