Heroes of the Storm - Thursday Teaching Thread - Beginners encouraged to ask questions here! | December 28 - January 03


Thursday Teaching Thread - Beginners encouraged to ask questions here! | December 28 - January 03

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 09:00 AM PST

Welcome to the latest Thursday Teaching Thread, where you the community get to ask your questions and share your knowledge.

This is an opportunity for the more experienced HotS players here to share some of your wisdom with those with less expertise. This thread will be a weekly safehaven for those "noobish" questions you may have been too scared to ask for fear of downvotes, but also can be a great place for in depth discussion if you so wish. So, don't hold back, get your game related questions ready and post away, and hopefully someone can answer them!

If you wish to just view top level comments (ie questions) add ?depth=1 to the end of the page url. If you have any additional questions, /r/nexusnewbies is happy to help.


Previous Teaching Threads

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How to deal with Sylvanas 101.

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 05:59 AM PST

Some controversy/balance discussion surrounding this hero all of a sudden... Just trying to offer some constructive input for those playing over the holidays and looking to learn and adjust their way past obstacles!

Understand her Strengths

  • Sylvanas is a force multiplier. She makes other powerful pushers more powerful and dangerous.
  • Sylvanas has strong macro control through her wave clear and fast mercing.
  • Sylvanas can split off from the team to deal siege damage, but isn't particularly good at it.
  • Sylvanas' strength is empowering a 5 man (+ objective/mercs) push.
  • Sylvanas snowballs hard.

Understand her Weaknesses

  • Sylvanas has a very low health pool.
  • Sylvanas has very little effective teamfight damage/PVP damage.
  • Sylvanas has a poor teamfight because of the aforementioned.
  • Sylvanas has one (slow) defensive cooldown, which can easily be exploited.

Drafting for Sylvanas games

  • Draft strong defensive heroes. You need a hero like Guldan, Valla, Zuljin, Kaelthas, Chromie (to name a few) that can really hurt the 5 man offense of the enemy team.

  • Draft a strong, selfsufficient solo laner with wave clear. This hero can punish any deathballing from the opposing side and keep vision and macro in check for both teams.

  • You cannot afford the occasional late game flex pick. Heroes like Nazeebo and Kel'thuzad are notorious for scaling and becoming powerful late in the game. You cannot afford this 'dead weight' against a team that is going to focus on early game snowballs.

  • Draft for the Objectve. Sylvanas snowballs obscenely hard with a Punisher or Immortal by her side, but she isn't too good at securing those objectives. Make sure you don't find yourself without strong objective heroes because you need to (and should, as you are effectively 5 vs 4.5) win all of them. Wave clear on Infernal (Sonya, Guldan), fast camp clear on THM (Greymane, Jaina), strong single target on BOE (Valla).

  • Analyze your losses and learn from them. Sylvanas is one of those heroes that can get out of control quickly when left unchecked. Learn to identify the turning point where she starts her snowball, and learn from it. Usually it's a pretty obvious mistake that gives her too much space and being prepared for it helps a ton!

Good luck in the Nexus and best wishes for 2018!

EDIT:
Just to elaborate, with 'effective teamfight damage' I ment how much Sylvanas can contribute to one kill in a "normal" situation. Yes, she has a boatload of poke damage, and she can burst isolated heroes, but please remember that this list was meant to be concise, we can write paragraphs of details on any individual point but that wasn't my intention :).

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Blizz, make 2018 the Villain's Year!

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 08:37 AM PST

Dear Blizz, make some noise at the Nexus! Enough of this "Heroes" crap, bring out the violent, ruthless and cunning villains we all know and love. Even if it isn't a new character, what about some new banners, sprays and brawls related to the evil aspects of our Blizzard Universe? A 10v1 brawl against a big boss would be super dope too.

(Yeah, I know they probably have all 2018 stuff scheduled, but one can dream hearing Baal's laugh at the Nexus...)

submitted by /u/DunmerSeht
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Heroes Brawl of the Week, December 29, 2017: Trial Grounds

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 10:08 AM PST

Enable spectating high elo games

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 11:27 AM PST

As the title says, it would be nice to be able to spectate high elo games.

I think a lot of players watch hgc to learn and improve, and there's this contrast between coordinated evironment and HL, it would be nice to be able to watch high elo games, it would also increase the exposure of players.

Would it be possible to implement, or does the game engine prevent it on the technical level?

If there's a restriction engine wise, maybe there could be a bot that will observe games and stream them (with a delay to prevent sniping).

submitted by /u/anhermon
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Grubby one-man wrecking crew

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 02:53 PM PST

Chromie's Bronze Talons is (one of) the most poorly designed talents in the game and here's why I think so.

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 04:46 AM PST

Let's take a moment to talk about Chromie: many pros agree she has one of the poorest designs in the game with her W burst damage: walk left or right, and sometimes you die and sometimes you don't.

However, what I find most frustrating about Chromie is that while she is supposed to be a high skill floor hero, Bronze Talons lets her output significant damage without ever hitting a single ability.

Imagine Chromie had a talent that said "Increase Sand Blast's damage by 50%".

This talent would actually be MUCH worse than Bronze Talons at level 2, because to get value from it you actually need to hit your Q. I did some math here, and I came to the following conclusions:

Bronze talons increases Chromie Q's damage by 60% at lvl 0 with no stacks, and around 50% at lvl 5, 10 and 20 if she has 20, 40 and 80 stacks at those levels. In fact, if she Chromie only has 20 Q stacks at lvl 20, Bronze Talons actually becomes a 73%(!!!) damage boost to her Q. It allows bad Chromies to still dish out a lot of damage.

In addition to not needing to hit her Q, this damage is also not negated by Spell Armor, AND effects non-heroes. This means she can actually damage heroes like Tracer and Genji who are supposed to be her biggest counter that are very mobile, or heroes like Anub'arak with massive spell armor. Heroes with extreme mobility should be very strong against her. However, with the crutch that is Bronze Talons (in addition to Time Out! and/or Bye Bye!) she actually stands a chance versus them, wearing them out if they don't force a hard engage.

Not only that, but Bronze Talons' damage increase works vs non-heroes such as Punishers or Immortals, which a raw Q damage increase would not do.

Even someone like Hanzo who should be able to out trade her as his damage is much more consistent than hers, if she trades auto attacks every time her Q is up, even if she misses her Q, she will deal more damage to him than he will to her if Hanzo does the same. If both hit their abilities, Chromie still comes out ahead.

It's no wonder Bronze Talons has a 6.9% higher win rate than the next highest talent in its tier in HL and a 2.6% higher win rate than the next highest talent in QM.

So Bronze Talons increases her Q damage by 50% if she had a 100% hit rate on her Q. What happens if she misses sometimes?

If the chromie has a 50% hit rate on her Q with 40 Q stacks at lvl 10, it's an effective 95% damage increase

If the Chromie is absolutely terrible at hitting her Q, and only has a 10% hit rate and thus only has 20 Q stacks at lvl 20, Bronze Talons actually starts being insane at a whopping 640% effective damage increase.

My conclusion is that Bronze Talons is a ridiculous talent that completely shifts the dynamic of Chromie's power, letting her dish out a lot of poke without actually ever having to hit her Q and W which her (in my opinion poorly designed) kit is focused around. Heroes like Johanna have been losing Spell Shield because they could take too much damage from both physical and spell damage based heroes. Chromie, on the other hand, gets to have a talent that gives her massive physical damage boost, without having to hit any skillshots whatsoever. It's way too much power consolidated into a single talent.

Please replace Bronze Talons with another talent, or switch it around with (a slightly nerfed) Shifting Sands (or Fast Forward) to actually require her to hit her skill shots to deal bonus damage until later in the game.

Bronze talons should either be removed or be put at lvl 14, not lvl 2.

TL;DR: Bronze Talons doubles Chromie's Q damage if she only hits half of them and shores up way too many of her weaknesses. It's a really unhealthy talent with a much higher win rate than other choices.

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Local Hanzo Main Charged with Manslaughter

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 06:27 PM PST

How To Azmodan

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 11:04 AM PST

Hello everyone! I'm a level 60 Azmodan, having played him since the public beta. I just recently hit my 400th game with Azmodan, so I thought I'd offer some tips on how to build and play the Lord of Sin himself!

 

Azmodan's design is fascinatingly unique: He's a high-health summoner/mage who can simultaneously be dealing massive team fight damage and push a lane. With the proper talents, your dunks will easily be doing 1K+ by the end of the game -- or if you prefer, you could go for a split push build and ruin the enemy's keeps while they're distracted in team fights. There are three primary builds for Azmodan:

 

Dunk Build

1 - Sieging Wrath

4 - Army of Hell

7 - Infernal Globe

10 - Black Pool

13 - Hellforged Armor

16 - Battleborn

20 - Forced Recruitment

 

The ever-famous dunk build starts off with Sieging Wrath at 1. Now, a lot of people have argued back and forth between Taste for Blood and Sieging Wrath; in my opinion, I prefer the latter because you can stack it far more easily, getting the damage earlier in the game which can greatly sway early-game/mid-game teamfights, and because the added 33% range makes it so much easier to dunk players between lanes even on large maps! There is a point to going for Taste for Blood, but that additional damage is only easy to stack if you have someone helping you while rotating between lanes, typically done best on Tomb of the Spider Queen. At Level 4, always go for Army of Hell, since it actually makes your W a viable talent and not a waste of mana. At Level 7, there are two options for this build: I highly recommend Infernal Globe, as it makes landing dunks a lot easier, but if you're really confident in your ability to land them without the lowered cast speed and travel time, then go for March of Sin. Why March of Sin in a dunk build? Well, for the most part, your E isn't that useful a component of your kit, but having March of Sin allows you to deal a lot of sustain damage by keeping up with enemies as they're trying to run away following a dunk. At Level 10, for this build you have to go for Black Pool: the 75% damage bonus is mostly intended for Q, but also provides benefits for your demon warriors, laser, and auto attacks. At 13, go for Hellforged Armor, which adds a nice burning aura to your demon warriors and makes them the single tankiest summon to soak up fort/tower shots instead of your minion wave. Then, at 16 go for Battleborn, which gives you a free W cast on your dunk if it hits an enemy. In combination with all of the other W talents you've gone for thus far, it makes casting globes incredibly powerful, especially for long-range sieging. Just keep casting globes and over time and you'll wear down buildings like it's nothing. Finally, at 20, I recommend either Bolt or Forced Recruitment. Choose Bolt if your positioning hasn't been great for most of the game or if you want to do the Bolt/Insta-Dunk combo. Choose Forced Recruitment if you want to push lanes to no end. This talent gives Azmodan so much power to split push since you can diversify lanes and push buildings down with buffed mercs in different lanes easily.

 

Laser Build

1 - Master of Destruction

4 - Gluttony or Army of Hell

7 - March of Sin

10 - Black Pool

13 - Infused Power

16 - Select Based on Circumstances

20 - Bolt or Forced Recruitment

 

Personally, I think this build is significantly worse than people give it credit for given how liable it is to interrupts and how difficult it can make laning and fighting around an objective. However, there are cases where it's best, one of them being Battlefield of Eternity since it gives you that single target damage necessary for wearing down the Immortal. At 1, you have to go for Master of Destruction since it enables you to keep using your laser efficiently and to chase squishy targets without having to get anywhere close to them. Gluttony at 4 doesn't do much for you overall, but if you won't be using your W much this game or you think you can get a lot of sustain out of your laser, go for it. Otherwise, still go for Army of Hell lest your W become mana spent with little purpose. At 7, go for March of Sin, which buffs your movement speed by 75%, allowing you to move around Immortal stuns, keep up with enemies, etc. The combo with your level 1 talent makes it incredibly difficult to escape from Azmodan if the enemy team doesn't have any stuns. At 10, you can go for either option: Demonic Invasion allows you to push down structures more easily, but Black Pool temporarily buffs your already-powerful laser. I personally recommend going for Black Pool on BoE, but in other instances Demonic Invasion is generally better. At 13, go for Infused Power to buff your maximum laser power by 40%. 16 with this build is the strangest one, since there's no talent that augments your E. Instead, I recommend Demonic Smite which will help with split pushing lanes or Sin for Sin if they happen to have a high health target just for some sustain in teamfights. If neither appeals, you can still go for Battleborn. At 20, I again recommend either Bolt or Forced Recruitment for the same reasons mentioned in the dunk build.

 

Split Push Build

1 - Sieging Wrath

4 - Army of Hell

7 - Bound Minion

10 - Demonic Invasion

13 - Hellforged Armor

16 - Battleborn

20 - Forced Recruitment

 

Now, this is perhaps the newest build to emerge for Azmodan, something that used to be popular back in the beta but lost popularity after Azmodan's reworked talent tier. In essence, it's just the dunk build with a few changes: At 4, go for Hellish Hirelings if you're with a team that's capable of easily getting mercs, else Army of Hell; at 7, go for Bound Minion instead of Infernal Globe to add a free Promote to your trait; at 10, go for Demonic Invasion over Black Pool; and at 16, go for Battleborn if you went for Army of Hell, else go for Demonic Smite. Doing this lets Azmodan push lanes down with ease, but be wary: It can be stopped by anyone with good wave clear, such as Kael'thas, Jaina, Gul'dan, etc. Generally, this build is best on large maps such as Warhead Junction where you'll be either in a one-on-one or left alone for most of the game.

 

Last but not least, here are some easily forgotten tips: If you go for Sieging Wrath, at the start of the game go mid and launch a dunk towards the enemy gate to get some free stacks on incoming enemies. Don't cast W when it's on cooldown before 4 or if you didn't go for Army of Hell -- Demon Warriors are so weak before being talented, making them either fodder for tower shots (about 4 per tower or 2 per if you send it down the center) or a good way to block skillshots from heroes such as Li-Ming. Keep your trait in the offlane, the lane you're not pushing and preferably that no one is currently in; this will maximize your trait value by allowing the wave to move freely forward. Also, your W can be used over walls and obstacles since it's not cast immediately in front of Azmodan and will walk forward; use it for scouting bushes or assisting your teammates with getting mercs. Using your trait with Bound Minion also heals the minion to full health, so choose a low health target. If you want to build up the wave, target a melee minion, but if you want to wear down structures more quickly target a ranged minion. If you're not pushing with the wave, always buff the melee minion, but if you're pushing with the wave and using your W to soak up shots, you'll get the fort down more quickly buffing the ranged minion. When catapults spawn, those are the best targets for your trait -- a group of buffed catapults on the Core can easily bring it down if the enemy team isn't careful!

 

One of the most important things to watch out for while playing Azmodan is your positioning: While he is an incredibly high health character, he has no escapes before level 20, so if the enemy team is missing from the minimap don't stick too closely to their fort or keep. The next most important part of Azmodan is learning how to predict where enemy heroes will be. This is something that really comes with practice and intuition; watch how they're running and throw your Q a bit ahead of where they are. If you get really good with landing dunks, you can always substitute Infernal Globe for Bound Minion.

 

That's all from me! I hope it proves useful in your journey to conquer the Nexus. If anyone has questions, I'll be happy to answer them!

Edit: Updated with a couple of points on when to go for Bound Minion over Infernal Globe and how to use the former.

Edit 2: Also, thank you so much for the Level 100 Azmodan replying to this! I was really happy to read your thoughts on how to build and play him. It's always great to learn more from players who are more knowledgable!

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For Players Trying To Climb The Hero League Ranks, Here's a List Of Very Simple Things That Will Improve Your Performance.

Posted: 27 Dec 2017 11:42 PM PST

1.) When your teammates fuck up, don't say anything. There is a chance they are a decent player and they are already yelling at themselves so don't try and correct someone who are actively trying to correct themselves. There is an even greater chance that you saying ":meh:" or "This [heroName]..." will simply send them closer to TILT. You're better off being the pleasant silent player than the the boisterous jerkwad.

2.) It's not your job to teach other people how to build their character. If someone has a terrible build, there isn't much of a point in writing some long essay in-game on how their build is wrong or what they should do differently. It's a waste of your time and getting a stranger on the Internet to listen you is a lot harder than you think (yes I'm aware that I'm writing a list for strangers on the Internet). Just let them play their hero (poorly in some cases) and adjust your gameplay to suit the situation.

3.) Yes meta heroes are important and hero composition is also important, and sometimes you get a bad composition with non-meta heroes. That doesn't automatically mean a loss though. Look at the heroes on your team and see how they interact, learn to be like the Zerg and evolve your game. Being able to adapt to your fellow players sub-optimal hero choices and learn how to make smart plays with atypical heroes will have you skyrocket through hero league.

4.) Destroy walls after a good push, it's a great way to reduce the map visibility for your opponents.

5.) If 4 people are doing something really REALLY stupid and you aren't doing it, more often than not in that instance you're the problem. It tends to be better to fully commit to something risky that could pay-off rather not commit to it. By not committing the risky choice certainly becomes something stupid. Sometimes you just have to go with the flow.

6.) Use the mute button. Don't try and talk to players who are toxic/salty/shitty. Don't egg them on, don't try and calm them down, don't capitulate with terrorist demands. It's not the time nor the place to explain to them why being a petulant dickshit is not acceptable. Hit that mute button, block communication and continue to focus on the game at hand.

7.) Report players who feed/troll/afk, especially if they are on the other team. Those types of mutants shouldn't being in ranked, they shouldn't being in our glorious HOTS community, and they shouldn't bring other players down cause they themselves are wastes of human life (assuming they are even worth being called human). Assuming that the report system works, you're indirectly increasing your chance of victory.

8.) Be willing to call it quits for the day. If you lose three or four games in a row, just call it. Do something else. Don't continue in a lose mindset. Do something else and come back fresh and renewed.

9.) Globes are your friend.

10.) Become more cognizant of your play style. Try and recognize your own patterns and behaviors in game and try and catch yourself before you do something stupid. Take half a second and think about your plays before you make them.

11.) Objective is generally more worth more than a chase. The reward of completing the objective is far sweeter than maybe getting a double kill.

Please feel free to add this list.

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Woodcarved glowing in the dark logo. A fanmade real life art.

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 03:48 PM PST

Are people still getting misplaced in hero league?

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 04:57 PM PST

I was Plat 3 last season and after doing my placements today, I seem to have plummeted to Gold 2.

Plat 3: https://imgur.com/MhMw3KH Gold 2: https://imgur.com/CSKJbtl

Is it worth contacting support about this or won't they be able to do anything?

submitted by /u/Shadovv_Nova
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LoL-HotS comparison. How increasing snowball and solo-carry potential can develop the pro scene, increase twitch viewership, repopulate HL/TL, and lead to a better quality of matches overall.

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 12:50 PM PST

EDIT : there is apparently a misunderstanding. To state things clear, I never want HotS to be a copy pasta of LoL either. I quit LoL because as people said it's all about snowballing during a tedious laning phase. I don't want that either for HotS.

What I'm saying though is that HotS suffers from the reverse problem, where your individual performance has almost no outcome on the result of the game. Because of that people blame teammates. Because of that people don't try to improve since the reward isn't consistent enough. I believe a middle ground can be found, and should be found.

 

WARNING long post. TL;DR at the end.

I quit LoL 2 years ago and since then I've been playing HotS. With the recent changes, HotS formula is getting closer to LoL's in terms of early lead reward (games are a bit more snowbally) and personal skill reward (through laning changes and PBM). I would like to discuss both aspects and how they can improve the game as my title explains.


It is harder to maintain an advantage (snowball) in HotS compared to LoL

In HotS, a big lead comes in two forms :

  • Hero level, which award a bit of HP and damage (+4% per level lead).
  • Talents, which award, in average a bit of survivability and damage (depending on the tier).

In LoL, a big lead also comes in two forms :

  • Hero level, which award quite a bit of HP and damage (HP and AA scale naturally, abilities can be leveled up). LoL uses a linear scaling, which results in +12% for early level, and +6% for late levels.
  • Items, which award a lot of HP and/or damage depending on what item you buy.

We can see two differences :

  • Purely from numbers, LoL snowballs harder than HotS. 3 level + 1 item lead in LoL is much bigger than 3 level + 1 talent lead in HotS.
  • Also, in LoL you have a greater choice in how you want your hero to snowball. Do you want damage, or HP, or a bit of both ? There is an item for any of this. Thus you have access to a very "high risks high reward" playstyle if you want. In HotS, the choice is limited, especially since Blizzard is pushing "defensive" and "offensive" talent tiers.

In HotS

In HotS, we sometimes have this game where our team is winning very hard all game long, but after 20, you lose one big fight, and suddenly your team falls behind. Why does this happen ?

Well, being 1-2 levels ahead means very little in HotS. Talent tiers are the primary form of snowball (mainly levels 10, 16, 20). So when both teams hit 20, any advantage you had is almost nullified.

In LoL

In LoL however, if your team manages to get a big 10k gold lead, you will easily maintain a full item lead (about +20-40% damage / HP / healing) until the very late game (think lvl 27 in HotS). Even if the enemy team wins a fight, the gap would drop from 10k to maybe 6-7k gold.

Also, it's worth noting that LoL provides another source of advantage : the drakes. They provide buffs that persist all game long for the team who kills them. Buffs are either speed, hero damage, siege damage, or sustain out of combat.

While the HotS way allows more room for comebacks, there is a middle ground to be found. Right now losing almost all advantage when both teams hit 20 makes the early and mid game feel unimpactful.

Sidenote : the keep advantage

One of the possible ways to snowball in HotS is to take a keep. However, a keep advantage promotes passive gameplay. The optimal play for the winning team is 1) delay objective without fighting 2) wait for catapults to stack 3) force an enemy to go clear them 4) claim objective 5v4.

Since waiting is not interesting, people fight immediately, in a 5v5. If both teams hit 20, it's almost a 50/50. In the end having a keep lead doesn't help to win the teamfight. In practice taking a keep is just limiting push possibilities after a team wipe, which again promotes stale gameplay.

It would probably be much better if keeps instead provides a PvP bonus : a HP and damage buff for example. It would help to maintain an advantage post 20. And to compensate for the catapults loss, the buff could also give massive bonus damage against the core. Thus if you stack all 3 buffs, the core is very vulnerable even for non-pusher heroes.


1v1 kill potential is much lower in HotS than in LoL

In HotS, I think we can all agree that, even with a lead as big as 4-5 levels, you won't see a Kael QWE combo 100-0 any tank. In fact, with Convection done, with double Q at 16, a full combo is 2500 damage at lvl 20 (we assume passive is used on Q to ensure the double hit). It barely kills a lvl 1 Sonya (!), whereas a lvl 15 Sonya would only lose 59% of her HP.

The situation is completely different in LoL. It is possible for a Brand (fire mage with similar kit than Kael) to 90-0 a Mega Gnar (who is like a bruiser hero in Mega form), as it is shown in this clip. Here Brand has a 3 level + 1 item lead.

Why such a difference ? Kael damage can only increase through his level 1 and 16 talents (and 7 but it is conditional). Meanwhile, LoL allows you to go full damage at your own risks. In HotS, defensive/offensive talent tiers limit how much damage/HP you can build on a hero. Talents give you various ways (playstyles) to increase your damage, but overall your damage is still very limited (compared to LoL items).

In the end, 1v1 kill potential is indeed much lower in HotS, even when being far ahead. Along with the difficulty to maintain an advantage, this has the following consequences :


How snowballing and solo carrying affect LoL positively ; How the (comparative) lack of it affect HotS negatively.

HotS is less snowbally... thus less rewarding

In HotS like every moba, kills remain the first way to get the advantage. Not only it is harder to get a kill in HotS, but you gain little advantage (snowball) from it.

Three early kills in LoL give so much gold that you can dominate hard during the laning phase. Three early kills in HotS = 2 minion waves, i.e. 2/5 of a level. The difference between the two games is quite shocking. If your team loses 2 waves of soak, it's as if the 3 early kills never happened.

Because it matters so little, people like to brawl at the middle lane for no reason. They are often the same people that later go around alone and die at critical moments (like during objectives). If an early kill were to give a half level lead, I'm sure people would be more careful about it.

Solo carrying is WAY harder in HotS, teamwork is necessary

In LoL, it is definitely possible to kill an opponent with an outplay. Then you can rotate and help your team to get kills. Thanks to those kills, you and your team will snowball from here. Personal skill can absolutely decide the game outcome.

In HotS, the main way to carry is by shot calling. You rely on your team to follow your pings. If they refuse to cooperate, there is not much you can do.

Individual performance is much less rewarded. Blizzard recognized this issue, and tried to address it with PBM, but (imo) it's clearly not the right way to do it.

Less incentive to watch, to follow esports, and to improve

Due to how difficult it can be to solo carry and get kills, these quotes I found in an old HotS thread are still relevant today :

HotS is more team reliant and you can't really carry like in LoL. If I'm watching a streamer I like on LoL you can see the good plays they make and outplays. In HotS it just feels like rinse and repeat.

 

Imo, hots isnt that interesting to watch because you cant solo carry games like you can in Dota and LoL. The top streamers in League get their viewers because they single highhandedly win games and people love to watch that. You can not do that in hots.

That's pretty much it.

In LoL, the possibility of solo carrying (and getting a kill 1v1) is doing wonders to the game :

  • It increases twitch viewership, for streamers and the pro scene, despite how stale the laning phase can be. The 1v1 / 1v2 / 1v3 outplays are among the most spectacular to watch. Those are very rare in HotS. Instead people evaluate individual skill with numbers like damage dealt or healed which have always been a controversial metric.
  • It allows big names to appear in the pro scene. Despite quitting LoL 2 years ago, I can remember at least 20 pro players or streamers. They got famous with highlights of their individual performance in pro games. Their item builds can be found on every website. Faker is considered a living legend (see this or this). In HotS, there seems to be little interest to the pro scene. People will watch HGC, but rarely cheer for a specific player.
  • It encourages the playerbase to learn and improve. After watching high level players do so well, you try your best to do the same. In LoL there are countless guides of item builds, solo laning matchups and more, for every hero. In HotS people only care about tier lists and talents win rate because the rest feels unimportant. Once you want to learn more advanced knowledge you have to do an extended search, and very often you find that it doesn't help you that much to win the game (again because maintaining an advantage and solo carrying are very hard).

It's not a matter of popularity. Look at Starcraft 2 : many of the committed players know a few pro players and what race they play. They know a few build orders and how to counter some enemy units. Why ? Because it wins you games . SC2 is not so popular right now because there is too much mechanical skill involved. But if RTS was a genre as casual as moba, SC2 would be as popular as LoL.

Sidenote : winning a lane is harder

Blizzard does care about this with the recent globe changes. However, it mainly pushes an attrition war. Compared to LoL, there is still a fountain, coming back to lane takes less time, and it is easier for teammates to come from another lane and hold it.

Even if you managed to force a recall and have a good push, a tower is not worth as much (1/4 of a level for levels 1-5, 1/6 for levels 6-10, 1/9 for levels 11-15, etc).


TL;DR

Blizzard should continue to improve solo carrying capacity and early lead reward. The best way imo would be to increase 1v1 kill potential, which would give more room for outplays and personal skill to come into play.

If personal skill has more impact on the game outcome AND outplays happen more frequently, then watching HotS (both streamers and pro scene) will be a much better experience. There would be a much bigger interest for high level games, which would indeed increase twitch numbers.

Thanks to that, it will give a huge boost to the competitive aspect of the game, and thus repopulate HL/TL. Players will be inspired by the individual performance of pros / high level players and will try to improve themselves, leading to higher quality matches, and better knowledge of the playerbase overall.

The main risk is to create a "meta" where players always pick the same 10 heroes, with the same optimal build (like it can be in LoL). I don't believe it will be the case in HotS : 1) The HGC tournaments have shown a very diverse meta already. 2) Talents balance in HotS is easier than Item balance in LoL. 3) There are multiple maps.

This is a direction I would like Blizzard to explore. HotS has already many advantages over LoL (shorter games, variety of gameplay, better balance, shared xp, supports do something). We are actually very close to the perfect formula ! HotS is all about defying conventions and traditions ? Then for once, try to walk into other mobas footsteps and see how it goes.

Thanks for reading ! Merry Christmas and Happy new Year !

submitted by /u/IssacharEU
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Entry Level Esports Episode 4 - How Can Weak Regions Get Stronger?

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 12:14 PM PST

LOTR themed skins and ideas

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 07:02 AM PST

Tl;dr Lord of the Rings skins ideas for Heroes of the Storm  

Hey, The 2.0 is amazing, now many people can actually appreciate the artist work behind each skin, amazing job Blizzard! After seeing some Marvel-themed skins, I started imagining with some friends what if Hots heroes could get Lord of The Rings themed skins...and this is the outcome: 

  • [Epic] Varian as Aragorn (Ranger: Green cape,beard and no ponytail; King: Black cape, crown, beard and no ponytail. In addition he could use the Shield of Boromir if he goes tank link
  • [Epic] Muradin as Gimli (Lotr Dwarf armor with two axes, he also screams "NOBODY TOSSES A DWARF!" when he jumps and interact with Hanzo if has Legolas Skin) 
  • [Legendary] Malfurion as Gandalf (White/Gray hooded, the Twilight Dream animation will change into Malf screaming "You shall not pass" and stomping the staff into the ground + the Stag form as mount link
  • [Epic] Diablo as Balrog (a fellow redditor has suggested a Diablo/Deathwing, just add wings and we have Diablo/Balrog…..awesome….) 
  • [Epic] Lili or Zeratul as Frodo (Lili has rings around her staff, we can add a golden ring while Zeratul could have an animation that put the ring on before turning invisible) 
  • [Epic] The Lost Viking as Merry, Pippin and Sam (wearing hobbit clothes, instead of a boat they will summon a huge table on which they start dancing and tossing food on enemies) 
  • [Legendary] Ragnaros as Sauron (he will have legs, similar to the heroic fight in Firelands + when he uses the "D" on a fort he will turn into a big structure like Barad-Dur/Big Sauron Eye link) I feel that Deathwing human form would fit perfectly…but he is not in the nexus yet 
  • [Epic] Leoric as the Witch King of Angmar (Black hooded with the Witch king helm and a big Flail instead of the mace, the ghost form will be the Nazgul appearance sawn by Frodo when he put the ring on) 
  • [Epic] Hanzo as Legolas (Ranger version with green hood and cape, no beard and longer hair, with nice interactions with Muradin if he has the Gimli skin, like "Still count as one" for big hero kill or "I'll have no pointy-ear outscoring me!" after Hanzo kills someone)
  • [Rare] Sylvanas as Arwen (instead of banshee she will summon horse spirits that roams towards, I feel this can be improved but do not find any hero that fit)
  • [Epic] Murky as Gollum ("Mypreciousssssmrglgllgllg"…instabuy.. it could be similar to this already suggested skin link
  • [Epic] Xul as a Nazgul/Ringwraith (he will summon other Nazguls instead of Skeletal Mages) 
  • [Rare] Butcher as Uruk-hai Berserker (link
  • [Rare] Medivh as Saruman (mounting will turn him into flock of crowns) 
  • [Rare] Rexxar as Wargs Trainer (Misha as a Warg while Rexxar could wear the armor of the DK version of him in the expansion of Hearthstone) 

Mounts: Hobbit's Pony, Eagles, Wargs, Rhinos, Mumakil (a mount that can hold 2 people?), Dwarf Ox, Elf Stag, Armored Lion. 

Nexus Lore: "Once a peaceful land, the Nexus is facing a terrible threat that could lead to its destruction: The Dark Firelord Ragnaros awoke in his dominion and aims to burn everything in his path…One by one all the free races of the Nexus fell to the power of the Dark Fire. But there were some who resisted: A last alliance of men,elves and dwarves led by King Varian and Lady Sylvanas is fighting for freedom, guided by the wise protector of the nature, Malfurion the White Stag. Many battles were fought but the power of the Dark Firelord could not be undone, he held its Black Ring of Fire that granted him an insurmountable strength. When all hope had faded, it was in that moment that the unexpected happened: Murky, a small and curious creature, attracted by the sparkle of the Black Ring stole it and took it deep into the Murloc tunnels of Westfal where it consumed him…. Ragnaros without the artefact could not keep his full devastating form, giving a last chance to the army of King Varian to free the Nexus. Ragnaros sent his strongest generals in the quest to find the Black Ring, he knew that the ring itself desire only one thing: return to its master. It abandoned Murky but something happened then the ring did not intend. It was picked up by the most unlikely creature imaginable: a small Pandaren, Lili that with its three companion, Olaf, Baelog and Eric, will shape the fortunes of all…."

Please give suggestions, feedbacks and your thoughts, let's bring Tolkien masterpiece to the Nexus.

Edit: broken link

submitted by /u/Markleon1
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BR Server dissapeared

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 04:23 PM PST

um, guise, seems like the BR server exploded or something like that, it dissapeared, what happened? :/

submitted by /u/BecruxAR
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�� Clutch Heals? ��

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 03:21 PM PST

[PLEASE FIX!!] Hanzo becomes useless if he gets stunned or flinched while holding Q. Lost a game because I couldnt die fast enough to fix it.

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 01:25 AM PST

Hanzo loses rhe ability to press ANY KEYS besides movement commands while he is stunned or silenced Flinched While holding or initially pressing Q in a certain frame. Lost my ranked game because I couldnt contest the objective as a sock puppet, and couldnt get myself killed fast enough to reset it.

EDITED IN: Watched the replay, Zarya's Graviton Surge was the culprit, I pulled back the arrow with Q and got stuck holding it indefinitely.

Couldn't B, couldnt Mount, coudnt use any other activated abilities or even the attack/move command, only basic move command worked, and no other comands whatsoever. Incredibly frustrating, please fix this Blizz, I beg you.

EDIT: On mobile. Sorry for spelling stutters and mistypes.

EDIT 2: https://vimeo.com/248956135 replay of what happened, sorry its on my phone, im a bad person.

EDIT 3: remembered another glitch, not EXACTLY sure what causes it but its related to Q's mechanics again, when moving by Clicking while aiming if stunned (I think?) then it'll force you to move by clicking instead of by holding the mousebutton for an undefined amount of time, or until cast again. Which is just kinda annoying.

EDIT 4: I know I sound ungrateful bitching about this stuff, but thank you Blizz for implementing Hanzo, and setting a precedence for this kind of aim and move mechanic in the future, like with Reihnhardt in the future. Thanks fellas, and keep up the hard work :)

submitted by /u/TheEpicTurtwig
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AI Bots seriously need a huge AI buff, or to be removed from anything short of AI mode

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 09:40 AM PST

As the title says, at this point in the game, AI are more a detriment with any mode, then they are an aide. I'd rather the offending disconnected player's bot STAYED in spawn even.

Providing targets for say Kel'thuzad to chain, targets for a Nova to Q off of, Easy Q targets for Hanzo (however that works), stack for butcher, etc etc.

I just came off a match where a Zul'jin AI just stood melee-range to an ally chained off a kel'thuzad, I dun even need to explain how PAINFUL that is with a decently skilled Kelly.

IN fact, I've seen cases of people trying to reconnect, only for them to get a "The Game is Over" message, but the game isn't over - making these situations even worse. I've seen this case a few times myself before upgrading my computer. So sometimes this isn't even anything BUT the game's fault.

A rehaul is needed, and it's needed soon.

submitted by /u/Vartio
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Blizzard should do a lore based Quests

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 04:02 AM PST

• It would work like these:

While using an Alliance Hero: Kill 50 Horde Heroes - Rewards: Alliance Banner Portrait, Alliance Warbanner, & Armored Steed Mount

While using a Horde Hero: Kill 50 Alliance Heroes - Rewards: Horde Banner Portrait, Horde Warbanner, & Direwolf Mount

While using Zul'jin: Kill 40 Elven Heroes - Rewards: Amani Tribe Portrait, & Amani Tribe Crest Spray.

While using Illidan/Valla: Kill 20 Demon Characters (Heroes, Mercs,& Minions) - Reward: Demon Hunter Portrait

While using Illidan: Kill an enemy Arthas - Reward: Symphony of Flames Portrait (Wc3 Ref)

While using Arthas: Kill an enemy Illidan - Reward: Symphony of Frost Portrait (Wc3 Ref)

While using Uther: Kill (Participate a Kill) 10 Undead Characters - Reward: Silverhand Portrait

And Many More••••

!Change Log: I've nerf some of the quests, & add additional rewards for the longer "Achievements/Quests".

submitted by /u/VectorC3
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What non-stealth heroes would become the most powerful if they gained the ability to enter stealth?

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 09:41 AM PST

Just curious what heroes, given stealth on top of their pre-existing abilities, would become severely OP, or otherwise more difficult to deal with.

submitted by /u/aidopple
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[Hero Concept] Aysa Cloudsinger, Multiclass Assassin/Support

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 12:50 PM PST

About Aysa

Aysa is an important figure to Pandaren players in World of Warcraft, especially to Alliance players. As described by wowpedia, Aysa is "a master follower of the path of Tushui, which believes in living a venerable life through meditation, rigorous training, and moral conviction." She is the means through which Pandaren join the Alliance, as she admires their high ideals and values. She serves as a counterpart (and later partner to) Ji Firepaw, who enables Pandaren players to join the Horde.

Aysa is designed to be a Multiclass Assassin/Support, embodying aspects of both the Monk's Windwalker and Mistweaver specializations, similarly to how Varian embodies the three Warrior specializations (Protection, Arms, Fury) within the game.


Overview

Borrowing a core design element of Kharazim, our resident Diablo monk, Aysa chooses her Q ability (rather than a trait) from one of three options: Chi Wave, which heals and deals damage by bouncing between Heroes, Chi Burst, which does a relatively large amount of healing and damage in a line, and Chi Sphere, which applies a heal-over-time effect to an allied Hero and does some bonus healing and damage at the end of its effect.

Her W, Tiger Palm, provides a small bonus to her Movement Speed and does light damage on a short cooldown.

Her E, Spinning Crane Kick, does moderate area-of-effect damage over a short duration. It's a channeled ability, similar to Sonya's E.

Her trait, Roll, is my interpretation of the ability straight from WoW. Aysa rolls very quickly in a targeted direction for 0.75 seconds and is unable to change directions or perform any other actions while Rolling. Roll cannot be canceled once started, effectively forcing Aysa to travel a fixed distance. This makes it easy to undershoot or overshoot the ability when used offensively, and its mastery will separate good Aysa players from great ones. It has two charges on a relatively long cooldown.

At level 4, similar to Varian, she chooses between two options which shape how she plays for the rest of the game. It makes either her more offensive or supportive: Xuen's Teachings dramatically increases her damage as a fight progresses, whereas Refreshing Jade Wind encourages her to clump near allied Heroes to heal them.

Level 10 offers her Fists of Fury or Life Cocoon. Fists of Fury deals heavy damage over 3 seconds and provides a short stun on the first volley of damage. Life Cocoon provides a large shield and is supplemented by a healing-over-time effect.


Abilities

Q - Level 1 talent choice. Choose one of the following:

  • Chi Wave: Throw a wave of chi energy which flows through allies and enemies, dealing 74 damage to enemies and restoring 96 Health to allies, prioritizing Heroes. Bounces up to 6 times.

    • Always alternates between allies or enemies; will never bounce from one ally to another ally, and won't bounce between two enemies.
    • 9 second cooldown.
  • Chi Burst: After a 0.5 second cast, throw a ball of chi energy, dealing 158 damage to enemies and healing 310 health to allies in a line.

    • 12 second cooldown.
  • Chi Sphere: Place a Chi Sphere over an allied Hero. They are healed for 246 Health over 7 seconds. At the end of this effect, they deal 127 damage to enemies around them and receive a burst of 127 healing.

    • 7 second cooldown.

W - Tiger Palm: Deal 100 damage to an enemy and increase your Movement Speed by 15% for 2.5 seconds.

  • 2.5 second cooldown.

E - Spinning Crane Kick: Deal 42 damage in an area around you every 0.3 seconds for 1.5 seconds. Aysa may still Auto Attack while spinning.

  • 9 second cooldown.

D - Roll: Roll in a straight line for 0.75 seconds with an additional 125% Movement Speed. Aysa cannot be slowed while Rolling.

  • 2 Charges. 24 second cooldown.

R1 - Fists of Fury: Deal 600 damage over 3 seconds in a cone facing a target. Reactivate to select a new target.

  • Enemy Heroes struck by the initial hit are stunned for 0.75 seconds.
  • 30 second cooldown.

R2 - Life Cocoon: Give an allied Hero a shield for 876 Health for 8 seconds and heal them for 677 Health over 6 seconds.

  • 90 second cooldown.

Talents

Level 1

  • (Q) Chi Wave

    • Throw a wave of chi energy which flows through allies and enemies, dealing 74 damage to enemies and restoring 96 Health to allies, prioritizing Heroes. Bounces up to 6 times.
    • Always alternates between allies or enemies; will never bounce from one ally to another ally, and won't bounce between two enemies.
    • 9 second cooldown.
  • (Q) Chi Burst

    • After a 0.5 second cast, throw a ball of chi energy, dealing 158 damage to enemies and healing 310 health to allies in a line.
    • 12 second cooldown.
  • (Q) Chi Sphere

    • Place a Chi Sphere over an allied Hero. They are healed for 246 Health over 6 seconds. At the end of this effect, they deal 127 damage to enemies around them and receive a burst of 127 healing.
    • 7 second cooldown.

Level 4

  • (W) Xuen's Teachings

    • Tiger Palm increases the damage dealt by your Basic Attacks and Tiger Palm by 20% for 4 seconds, stacking up to 4 times.
    • Passive: Increase your Movement Speed by 10%. This bonus stacks with Tiger Palm.
  • (E) Refreshing Jade Wind

    • Spinning Crane Kick now heals all nearby allied Heroes for 42 every 0.3 seconds for 1.5 seconds.

Level 7

  • (D) Celerity

    • Increase the maximum charges of Roll by 1 and reduce its cooldown by 2 seconds.
  • (D) Chi Torpedo

    • Increase the Movement Speed bonus of Roll by an additional 65%. After using Roll, increase Aysa's Movement Speed by 25% for 2 seconds.
  • (Active) Tiger's Lust

    • Activate to remove all Slows and Roots from an allied Hero and increase their Movement Speed by 50% for 2 seconds.
    • 30 second cooldown.

Level 10

  • (R) Fists of Fury

    • Deal 600 damage over 3 seconds in a cone facing a target. Reactivate to select a new target.
    • Enemy Heroes struck by the initial hit are stunned for 0.75 seconds.
    • 30 second cooldown.
  • (R) Life Cocoon

    • Give an allied Hero a shield for 786 Health for 8 seconds and heal them for 677 Health over 6 seconds.
    • 90 second cooldown.

Level 13

  • (W) Disable

    • Tiger Palm reduces enemy Hero's damage dealt and Movement Speed by 7.5% for 4 seconds, stacking up to 4 times.
  • (D) Yu'lon's Gift

    • Roll grants 25 Armor for 2.5 seconds. Additionally, Roll may be used while Silenced.
  • (Active) Diffuse Magic

    • Activate to remove all damage over time effects from Aysa and gain 60 Spell Armor for 3 seconds.
    • 45 second cooldown.
  • (Active) Healing Elixir

    • Activate to heal to 15% of Aysa's maximum Health.
    • 2 charges. 30 second cooldown.

Level 16

  • (W) Reaching Strikes

    • Increase the range of Tiger Palm by 1.5 and increase the Movement Speed bonus granted by Tiger Palm by an additional 10%.
  • (E) Flurry

    • Increase the duration of Spinning Crane Kick by 0.9 seconds.
  • (Q) Enveloping Mist

    • Allied Heroes healed by [your Q choice] are healed for an additional 300 Health over 6 seconds.

Level 20

  • (Active) Whirling Dragon Punch

    • Activate to deal 414 damage in a large area around Aysa. May only be activated when Tiger Palm and Fists of Fury are on cooldown.
    • 30 second cooldown.
  • (R) Chrysalis

    • Reduce the cooldown of Life Cocoon by 45 seconds.
  • (Active) Touch of Karma

    • Activate to mark an enemy Hero and gain a Shield equal to 40% of Aysa's maximum Health for 3 seconds. 50% of all damage dealt to the shield is dealt to the marked Hero.
    • 80 second cooldown.
  • (Active) Zen Shield

    • Activate to grant nearby allied Heroes a Shield equal to 25% of their maximum Health for 3 seconds.
    • 60 second cooldown. Hitting Heroes with Tiger Palm reduces the cooldown of this ability by 4 seconds.

Potential Interactions

To Chen & Li Li - "It is good to see another child of Shen-zin Su in such a strange place."

  • Shen-zin Su is better known as the Wandering Isle, a giant turtle whom some Pandaren live on. Chen, Li Li, and Aysa are all from this turtle.

To Li Li - "Greetings, young one. Do you need a refresher on the ways of Tushui?"

To Garrosh - "I will never forgive you for what you did to Ji."

  • This referrences the Siege of Orgrimmar raid. Before one of the boss fights, players rescue Ji Firepaw from being executed on the streets of the city. As she carried Ji away, Aysa promised to return to the Wandering Isle with him.

To Junkrat - "You... look like you could use some meditation."

  • Aysa is composed, valuing patience and high moral standards as part of her core values. Junkrat is a little more high-strung by comparison.

To Kharazim - "Ah, a fellow monk. Would you care to meditate with me when this is over?"

  • As previously mentioned, Aysa values composure and meditation.

To Varian - "Varian! You're alive!?"

  • Aysa attended Varian's funeral after he died in WoW's current expansion, Legion. As an additional note, Aysa sparred with him to prove her strength when she joined the Alliance.
submitted by /u/Godofsilver
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Are players undervaluing the solo lane/melee bruiser role?

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 06:20 AM PST

I'm going to start with quite a bold statement: I don't think Sonya is OP. Even if she is, it's marginally so. To give context I am a D2 TL Sonya main so I am biased but ... I've been wining games just because the other team doesn't draft a solo lane ... at all. On top of that they pick 1 tank, 3 ranged and a solo support. Those are nice games.

Players go into a game and they get upset if the team is missing a tank or a healer. But miss out a second front line or solo lane and nobody bats an eyelid.

Looking at the winrates of the 'top tier' solo lane type roles:

Hero Winrate
Probius 54.3%
Ragnaros 53.2%
Dva 52.9%
Sonya 52.8%
Leoric 52.4%
Gazlowe 52.3%
Malthael 52.0%
Artanis 51.9%
Greymane 51.9%
Rexxar 51.7%
Nazeebo 51.6%
Zagara 51.5%
Arthas 51.1%

Out of the top 20 heroes on HOTSlogs, 13 can solo lane! (Counting Sylv as she can solo lane even if it's not the best use of her talents. I'd also argue Naz isn't great either but people do put him solo and he's okay).

Go rank all heroes by popularity and only Sonya/Dehaka/Greymane/Sylv are near top. Arthas is up there but a lot of players pick him as main tank instead of solo.

It's also notable that most of these heroes act as a second front line and either create space for their backline or pressure the opponent's backline. On top of that quite a few of them can do camps solo.

One notable exception is Dehaka who sits on a 'measly' 47.8%WR. I kinda feel like Dehaka can't dominate many solo lanes and when games are uncoordinated you can't soak lanes separated from your team enough to get value. Dehaka needs good macro and I think many players are weak at it. It's why Abby's WR is so low even though I think the hero is strong.

What do people think? Are solo lanes too strong and should they all be nerfed like supports were? Or should players be educated to picking these heroes more frequently?

submitted by /u/Corwin343
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First time master. Feels meaningless.

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 05:26 PM PST

HotS was my first MOBA. I've been progressing consistently since I started playing last year. I've reached D1 multiple times in the last couple seasons. This season I placed at Master 1000 after a 6-4 placement record.

I see people in Master with D5 and even plat as their previous high. What should be a proud accomplishment is now tarnished by the illegitimacy of the ranking system. FeelsBadMan.

submitted by /u/1e7643-8rh34
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Can we see our real rating please?

Posted: 28 Dec 2017 03:18 PM PST

Rank (diamond/platinum/etc) is inconsistent. HotsLogs rating is inaccurate. I would like to see my actual Blizzard rating. It is the only number that matters.

submitted by /u/value_bet
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TL in Australia be like

Posted: 27 Dec 2017 10:13 PM PST

Any time of the day, any day of the week: https://imgur.com/a/hkavT

Please help!

EDIT: QUEUE POPPED AFTER 10k SECONDS BOIZ. LIVING THE DREAM!

submitted by /u/mrlaptopman1
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