Hearthstone - Deathstalker Rexxar Megathread

12/10/2017 04:10:00 pm
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Hearthstone - Deathstalker Rexxar Megathread

Deathstalker Rexxar Megathread

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 10:25 PM PST

Deathstalker Rexxar Megathread

As mentioned by Puffinplays and Mike Donais, Deathstalker Rexxar's heropower is currently not using beasts from the new expansion.

Threads that discuss this issue at length can be found here:

Issue Description

Arguments for a dust refund

Arguments for expanding the pool

Bonus: Shitpost

As of this time, new submissions about Deathstalker Rexxar's pool should go into either this thread or one of the linked threads. New standalone submissions will be removed.

submitted by /u/ScarletBliss
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Please Blizzard, Dungeon Runs are great BUT

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 05:25 AM PST

  • 1) You need to allow players to do their quests in the Dungeon runs. We can do them with friends and some do them with a double account, so there is no good reason why we couldn't do them while doing Dungeon runs. In fact, it's worse, because casual players can only play few hours by week and can't do Quest and Dungeons runs in the same week. They lose either gold (not doing quest) or fun (not doing Runs).
  • 2) For the same reason, you need to give a little reward for completing a dungeon because the game is completely dependent of grinding, if you don't spend time for gold reward, you will not be able to build pack/craft cards, and you will finish to not be able to play other mode than Dungeon runs. If you don't give some gold, people will either not have fun doing Dungeon runs or will stop playing in "Play" mode and will stop buying packs because of the gold downside. The actual limit in "Play" mode is 100 golds by day (30 wins). Giving 10 golds by Dungeon Runs successfully completed (8 wins) with the same limit of 100 golds by day is an honest solution (it will be at minimum 80 wins). The first bosses are easy, but the last ones are not as easy for everyone.
  • 3) You need to upgrade your bosses AI because it sucks. AI has never been very clever in Hearthstone, but in Dungeon mode, it is very important to have a good challenge. By example, when AI summons a minion just before clearing the board is very stupid. And it doesn't take 1 billion code lines to implement the correct move. Please Blizzard, we are in 2017, you have at disposition millions of game statistics by day and AI is not an obscure subject anymore.

Thx! And sorry for my english...

submitted by /u/TyoRim
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Took 48 hours for this sub to go from "Blizz is the greatest" to "Crucify Blizz"

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 07:20 AM PST

Probably still one of the longest tenures of peace and tranquility this sub has ever seern.

submitted by /u/Stuck1nARutt
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Lich King Hunter Boss Fight was a sign

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 08:19 AM PST

Blizzard shouldn't give us a dust refund for Deathstalker Rexxar, they should make it work with new expansions

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 04:08 PM PST

When Un'Goro came out there was one legendary I was super excited to try out, the Rogue quest. It was a totally unique way to play the game, I had no idea whether it would be good or not. When it was nerfed not because the win rate was too high but because people didn't like playing against it, it sucked to disenchant it but I understood the reason.

When KFT came out, there was one card I crafted early on because I could see right away it was the most fun card in the set. Deathstalker Rexxar. Now Blizzard says they won't add new beasts to its hero power so people are asking for a dust refund. I don't want a dust refund, I want my favorite card to continue to be supported. Not being able to figure out how to put text on a card is not a good enough reason. Try harder. How many millions a month does it take to figure out a solution to putting text on digital cards?

Edit: For those out of the loop, Here is what Mike Donias had to say about why Rexxar would not be updated.

submitted by /u/pianobadger
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Deathstalker Rexxar not working with new cards sets a terrible precedent. Blizzard needs to fix this.

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 07:10 PM PST

This fiasco of Deathstalker Rexxar not working with future cards sets a terrible precedent. Cards can randomly become "not as advertised" in wild as soon as upkeep on their ruleset becomes mildly inconvenient.

Hearthstone aspires to "feel like" a real TCG while making players pay like a mobile game. You know what a real card game like Magic the Gathering has? Cards that do exactly what they say.

If I take a card that refers to "beasts" in MTG from 1999, it works on beasts printed in 2017.

Nobody cares that it costs you money to localize new text every expansion. The promise that cards will function consistently and in new, exciting ways is implicit not only through the existence of Wild, but in the format of a collectible card game in general.

If this is okay, then Fandral not working with new "choose" spells becomes okay. Lyra not generating new priest spells becomes okay. It's not even a slippery slope, it's equal as far as gameplay is concerned.

I'm not a fan of how expensive the game is, but I'm still playing. But if you make me start doubting your commitment to the game by taking the easy way out on a popular card while printing millions of dollars on digital cards, I'm seriously going to reconsider my trust.

submitted by /u/rezaziel
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The Rexxar zombeast issue indicates that custom game modes or a proper tournament mode are not likely in the future

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 09:49 PM PST

We've seen something similar to the current [[Deathspeaker Rexxar]] issue happen in the past.

[[Bane of Doom]] originally only summoned Classic minions and didn't summon new demons when they were added. Blizzard went back and fixed that, but the reason was because they hard coded the list of demons it could summon initially instead of performing a check to see what demons are available and choosing one.

This seems to be the same problem we're seeing with Rexxar now. If you're coding the card to stitch them together on the fly, it should be trivial to take one card that says "Charge" and another that says "Can't be targeted by spells or hero powers" and combine them to say "Charge. Can't be targeted by spells or hero powers". It's just as trivial to do it with localization since "Cargar. No puede ser objetivo de hechizos ni de poderes de héroe." has also already been translated for the individual cards that are being combined.

However, rather than coding Rexxar to check what beasts fit the rules, populating the discover pools, and stitching together the translated card texts what they appear to have done was hard code the pools and the custom zombeasts and had them individually translated and included in the card database.

While continuing to update the list of current demons is rather trivial for a card like Bane of Doom, adding more beasts creates an exponential increase in the number of possible zombeasts, hence the reluctance to keep it updated.

The problem that coding things this way would causes is that the game ceases functioning, or functions abnormally, when presented with "edge cases" that they didn't plan for. We've seen this repeatedly over the years with things like [[Unearthed Raptor]], [[Moat Lurker]], [[Weasel Tunneler]], and especially [[Nozdormu]] where the game simply breaks because they didn't code for certain things.

Now, suppose you want to create a custom game mode where players can decide that they only want to play with certain sets, ban cards, etc., something people have been asking for and not gotten much word on. How do you go about setting that up if the game is hard coded rather than dynamically updating? The short answer is you don't. The longer answer is that you either let it use the hardcoded values and have unexpected results while playing with a much higher number of "edge cases" than the normal modes or you completely rewrite a lot of code to make things functional in a dynamic environment.

Tl;dr we've seen issues similar to this before and it indicates that Blizzard is likely using a programming paradigm that will make development of custom game modes or a tournament mode extremely difficult.

submitted by /u/JMEEKER86
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THE CATACOMBS BELONG TO THE TITANS

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 05:55 AM PST

No daily quest

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 12:11 AM PST

Hello,

yeaterday and today i didnt have any new daily quest, anyone with same ishue ?

Thats how blizz push us to spend real money ?

submitted by /u/ggramdalf
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When Blizzard wants to remind you that you have no time for games

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 10:09 PM PST

Will you survive Rod of Roasting?

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 06:32 AM PST

If Deathstalker Rexxar will never get new beasts added to the Build-A-Beast pool, at least offer a dust refund. I'm sure many players crafted it expecting the pool to increase.

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 12:47 PM PST

The decision to do this is especially confusing when they're trying to push "no minions" hunter. Many players probably crafted Rexxar FOR this deck expecting the new beasts to show up.

edit For reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/7igwxp/deathstalker_rexxar_does_not_use_new_minions_to/

submitted by /u/LamboDiabloSVTT
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So i opened about 750 packs and didnt even get the whole Expansion. Epics seriously need some kind of rewamp.

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 04:38 PM PST

Somebody else not getting daily quests since the expansion release ?

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 01:23 AM PST

I played a ton of dungeon runs yesterday and did all of the dungeon run quests + my other 2 daily quests i had lying around.

Sadly, when i logged in today i didnt have a new quest :(

submitted by /u/YallaYalla
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Deathstalker Rexxar does not use new minions to build zombeasts and will not in the future.

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 10:30 AM PST

In an earlier post here it was noticed that Deathstalker Rexxar does not use new beasts to make zombeasts. As explained by user Moshiyistu, Rexxar's pool will stay locked to allow for crazier cards to be introduced longterm. Even once cards have rotated out they will be able to be used in his Hero Power.

Personally this is the only thing that irks me about this expansion, with all the cool cheap beasts I was so excited to see the new combinations, but alas, no.

Edit: cards will rotate out of his pool as they rotate out of standard, so rexxar's pool will shrink and shrink in standard.

Edit 2: /u/mdonais explained here that the main issue was the combining of text across the 15 languages hearthstone is playable in. Having to format the text so it lined up properly and looked proper is difficult especially in languages where the rules of sentence structure are different than in english.

Edit 3: to those asking about wild, Rexxar can use beasts from Basic through Knights of the Frozen Throne but as cards are added to wild, Rexxar will NOT gain new cards, just like how he does not gain any in standard with expansion releases.

Edit 4: Many people have come up with a very creative idea for the zombeasts to simply show the combined cards with some graphic upon hover-over instead of combining text. In hand, the card could read something like Stonetusk Boar + Alleycat.

Edit 5: the part that stings most is that no one was warned about this, it was up to the players to figure it out themselves.

Edit 6: thank you for the gold! (X2)

submitted by /u/Dreadarian
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Disguised Toast new card interactions

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 03:10 AM PST

Unplayable. Blizzard please fix King Togwaggle.

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 01:28 AM PST

He swaps our decks, but not our card backs? Come on Blizz, you can do better than this.

submitted by /u/Krobuxx
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Hearthstone Micropatch: Deathknights (December 9th, 2017)

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 03:02 PM PST

A lot of people recently have been commenting about Deathstalker Rexxar, in regards to his viability moving forward:

"The challenge was not a coding one. It was combining 2 text boxes into one across 15 languages. A lot of things that work ok in English don't work as well in other languages. When text is written for a card, it has very specific templates and line breaks and spacing to make it fit and look good and some languages actually have very different rules and would surprise you what they have to do."

I mentioned it to the localization team, and after a long discussion, as well as with the development staff, we have come up with the following solution that we think will appeal to everyone:

Bloodreaver Gul'dan: Siphon Life cannot no longer target minions introduced past Knights of the Frozen Throne.

Malfurion the Pestilent: Plague Lord no longer allows you to attack minions introduced past Knights of the Frozen Throne.

Deathstalker Rexxar: Is unable to use beasts introduced past Knights of the Frozen Throne.

Uther of the Ebon Blade: Grave Vengeance and Horsemen can no longer attack minions introduced past Knights of the Frozen Throne.

Frost Lich Jaina: Icy Touch can no longer target minions introduced past Knights of the Frozen Throne.

Shadowreaper Anduin: Voidform can no longer target minions introduced past Knights of the Frozen Throne.

Valeera the Hollow: Shadow Reflection can no longer copy cards introduced past Knights of the Frozen Throne.

Thrall, Deathseer: Transmute Spirit can no longer evolve your minions into minions introduced past Knights of the Frozen Throne.

Scourgelord Garrosh: Bladestorm can no longer damage minions introduced past Knights of the Frozen Throne.

With these changes, we believe the meta will shift into a healthy experience for both new players and veterans alike.

submitted by /u/Faust2391
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If Dungeon Runs counted for Quests, I would recommend this game again for the first time in nearly two years.

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 05:03 PM PST

I want to take a moment to talk about why Blizzard should allow Dungeon Runs to count for daily quests. We know that team 5 loves their metrics, and that the community online is largely competitive and cares primarily about how quickly a meta deck can be assembled or whether you can reach legend f2p in a month. However, these things are quantitative, but when it comes to making a recommendation, I have to consider the qualitative factors as well. The new player experience is not bad because:

  • you can't grind to legend on a f2p account in a month or two (because you can)
  • you can't eventually earn cards by hitting rank 5 and playing arena (because you can)

These are the things people focus on, but they don't matter if actually playing the game sucks. Having a small collection is crippling in many ways. You don't have very many cards so if you want to grind resources, you'll have to play the same cobbled deck you have that's half-way decent over and over and over again. All of the pros who have done f2p runs will tell you how irritating this can be, and so can I because I periodically do f2p runs myself to check on the state of the new player experience.

I gave up on my last one after one week despite being further along in terms of collecting cards than I was during most of the previous runs after a month (though a lot of that had to do with unlocking the first wing of Onik on day 2 and adventures are going away). I logged in and got a quest that would have been nearly impossible to complete, switched it for another one that was just as bad, went to tavern brawl and lost several times in a row because it wasn't a premade and just never logged back into that account. The idea of wasting any more of my time on that account was so off-putting that I quit a f2p run early for the first time ever.

Real new players cannot work the arena because it's a zero-sum game and they don't have the experience. The only other way to earn rewards is to complete daily quests and do weekly brawls, but these are often incredibly difficult and frustrating when you just don't have any cards. And I'm the kind of person who's played a lot, is experienced, and can do more with less than an actual new player. Even the quests that were added to make things easier can be difficult. Play minions that cost 8 or more? Play deathrattle minions? Not many of those in the basic set.

Blizzard has made some improvements. We have been getting a free legendary card of some kind for the last couple expansions; they made it so you get a guaranteed legendary in your first 10 packs of a set; and you can't get duplicates anymore. However, these are largely improvements that keep the players like me from quitting because of how expensive the game is. Two of those changes most benefit people who preorder. A preorder will give you 2 legendary cards minimum and they will be different. That's a lot better value for your money than before when you could end up like the Bolf guy.

Despite this, we now have three expansions a year, which means more total cards to get caught up on, and while you don't need every card, each card is precious when you have nothing. Someone like me who has spent hundreds (probably at least $500 total) and who has opened 1000+ "free" packs from playing the game since vanilla still finds it frustrating to get the cards I want when an expansion hits. New players can't fall back on Jade Druid, or whatever the last meta decks were because they are still good, or don't require as many new cards to stay viable. They have nothing. I usually pay no attention to the rarity of my cards when I play my main account. A card is a card and it has its purpose. When I do f2p I look longingly at rares (much less epic and legendary), because you will mostly open commons and they don't dust for much. grinding out those cards isn't fun, especially when you have to do quests and brawls you aren't equipped for. The entire game is just a grind at that point and little fun is possible

However, all of this can change overnight if they make quests count in Dungeon Runs. This is what I would tell someone who asks me about the game the way it is right now.

Don't bother. You would start out so far behind that you would have to spend hundreds to get to a decent starting point where you aren't just grinding uphill battles with the same small collection hour after hour, day after day, for months before you get good decks with fun cards in them. The experience of playing the game for free, or even buying the preorders, is horrible. If you haven't been here since the beginning, play another game where you can have fun on day one, and not on day one hundred.

Here is what I would say to someone who asks if they enabled quests for Dungeon Runs

It's a pretty fun game. You won't have many cards at first, but you don't need them. Play the Dungeon Run mode to finish your daily quests and open packs to get cards. You'll get to see a lot of the cards in the game. You can play against other people if you want to, but if it isn't fun you can go back to the dungeon runs. They are pretty varied and randomized so you'll get a lot of mileage out of it, and if you get tired of that you can spend some money to get competitive for pvp right away or just grind the cards out on the side. you'll never be at a disadvantage unless you want to be because you can earn cards without facing other players

To anyone else like me who has been playing for years and has a nice collection, f2p or p2w, ask yourself this: if you had to delete your account today and start over, would you still play Hearthstone? I wouldn't. So how the hell could I recommend it to someone else? I would at least consider starting over if I had a way to play that rewarded me and wasn't a grind, and I would certainly recommend it to others if they had the same.

submitted by /u/gauss2
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No dragon could possibly stand against Arthas. Not ten of him, at any rate.

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 06:07 AM PST

Blizzard. I and others feel lied to, about this Deathstalker Rexxar situation

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 03:56 PM PST

For those who are unaware, the Build-a-Beast pool will NOT be receiving any additional beasts past the Knights of the Frozen Throne expansion.

Reasoning was provided (Admittedly lately provide) here: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/7igwxp/deathstalker_rexxar_does_not_use_new_minions_to/dqysh4l/

Blizzard, I don't want to bash you. I like Hearthstone, so I will attempt to make a rational post to explain why I and others feel that you have lied to us in regards to the limitations placed on Deathstalker Rexxar.

When I saw Deathstalker Rexxar, I immediately began to fantasize about what combinations of beasts I could make and how interesting exploring such a thing would be. But not only did I fantasize about the current combinations, but also future combinations with new beasts from new expansions. The possibilities appeared to be limitless and drove my desire to have this card all the more. So I spent my hard earned dust on him. (I imagine people spent actual money looking for him). This is an effect of 'Intuitive Design'. Where a player like myself can look at a card and immediately understand what it does and what the effect promises.

But now it came to light that you imposed a restriction on him due to the difficulty around adding additional beasts? We as a player base had to come across this ourselves, wondering if it was a bug for you finally to come out and tell us this restriction?

Why? Can you please, provide a reason? Because the restriction goes against the Intuitive Design of the card. There was no disclaimer say "Deathstalker Rexxard's Build-a-Beast pool will not be receiving any more new beast choices.". By not telling us, I'm honestly forced into believing you hid that information in fear of sales being negatively impacted.

Due to the intuitive design set by that card being betrayed by your actions, I feel like I was lied to. Betrayed. Why was there no transparency with this? This really needs to be addressed. And going forwards, please disclose such important information like this immediately when you guys run into a situation where you have to limit a card.

submitted by /u/Horrowx
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Goldshire Footman is a very strong card

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 05:22 AM PST

King Togwaggle combo

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 05:50 AM PST

DK Rexxar SHOULD be able to abuse the beasts that are printed in the future

Posted: 08 Dec 2017 03:46 PM PST

Topdog decks all have unfair things. Bigger and bigger men, machine guns, huge tempo swings. Why can't our boy Rexxar get a bit of wackiness? It feels bad putting so many restrains on a legendary card, especially one like Deathstalker, who is so much fun to play. I beg you Blizz, give this a second thought :(

Atleast if you're really not willing to do this in standard, make the change when he rotates out so he can rest happy

submitted by /u/MuchaSenpai
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I broke the space-time continuum

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 07:26 AM PST

I got a draw against my first encounter and now I'm playing with Warlock cards as Druid

Posted: 09 Dec 2017 04:13 AM PST

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