Civilization - Seondeok is not a Horrible Choice: A Korean's Perspective

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• Seondeok is not a Horrible Choice: A Korean's Perspective
• A distant relative to the canal city - straits city
• Can we eliminate the poor start photos?
• Sorry England [VI]
• The Civ Unique Abilities in VI are boring
• I am extremely disappointed in Firaxis's choice for Korea's leader.
• Just what is a "barbarian" anyway?
• How to move up from Prince to King?
• The Most Legendary Start and Conquest Ever
• I think Seondeok is a bad queen
• Not sure what to do during mid game (Civ 6).
• Well, well, well, how the turntables...
• AI's aversion to declaring war
• Which wonders are worth it?
• Does anyone know a good Civ YouTube series to watch?
• Population Frenzy
• The Inca Dream
• Petra and Ruhr Valley Porn
• Anyone else think it is too easy to be the Germans on Civ6?
• Upgrading to High Sierra broke the DLCs in Civ V
• The trailer is showing some of the new Civs
• Question about We are Family achievement
• A question about scientific output (Civ VI)

Seondeok is not a Horrible Choice: A Korean's Perspective Posted: 07 Dec 2017 12:58 PM PST Let me preface this by saying that: 1.) I am not arguing she is the best choice possible, just that people are making a mountain out of a molehill with their issues with her 2.) I am Korean and speaking from the perspective of a Korean and a person who majored in Korean history 3.) All the criticisms about her not looking "Korean" may be valid in so far as she does not look like our modern idea of what a Korean looks like. Keeping in mind Koreans do in fact have a wide range of looks even in modern day and no doubt could have looked significantly different back then it is not impossible for her to resemble what she does now compared to her pic. 5.) I get that people are upset at Fraxis using her as a token example to advance social justice without taking into consideration her merits as a ruler may turn people off. If anyone did any AND I MEAN LIKE WIKIPEDIA LEVEL research on her they would know that Fraxis chose a relatively successful ruler who is important to the mission of advancing a more diverse video game. Now as to why Queen Seonseok is not as bad of a leader to have been chosen: 1.) Her rule was considered to be a renaissance for the Silla dynasty. The arts and literary prowess of Silla was considered to be far underdeveloped compared to its neighbors. Arguably it was during her reign that a united cultural identity of Silla arts and literary traditions really began to take root beyond its oral and musical traditions. It was also during her time that vast public works projects entrenched Silla architecture and gave it the foundation for later success using her established public works, buildings, and arts. Her buildings were so well known that they were known to have influenced Wa Japan's wooden architectural style (along with Baekje), so much so the best example of Korean Three Kingdoms architecture is still found in Japan. 2.) She did by far the most to diplomatically develop Silla. Before Seondeok the diplomatic core of Silla was weak and underused. It had weaker relations with all of its neighbors and had no strong singular foreign ally that was able to support it against Goguryeo and a increasingly aggressive Baekje. Seondeok was the first of the Silla rulers to secure a Tang alliance. What is more impressive is she did this without giving into their conditions. Originally the Tang demanded a large portion of the Korean peninsula to be ceded in the event of a war to the Tang. Queen Seondeok not only rejected this outright, but she still managed to get the Tang to sign an formal military alliance without any of their conditions being included. After Queen Seondeok's death the Tang's alliance was instrumental (cannot stress this enough) in helping the Silla Dynasty unite the Korean peninsula, something that would not have had previously happened without the political maneuvering of Queen Seondeok who switched the Tang from favoring Baekje to Silla. 3.) Queen Seondeok put Silla's scientific advances at the forefront of the world. She constructed the first observatory in East Asia and the first dedicated scientific complex around it. Her observatory was copied by the Japanese Wa Observatory in 675 AD and Duke Zhou of China in 723 AD. 4.) Militarily she is a mixed bag and this is why she has a bad rap. She did indeed lose about 40 castles. What is false is that each castle controlled one province and that she lost 80% of the Korean peninsula. This is false. Castles varied on what they controlled and how large they actually were. The territory of Silla did in fact shrink (albeit temporarily), but not be 80%, from most of the records we have in Chinese, Wa, and in the Samguk Yusa it was probably closer to about 20% at MAX. Not great or ideal. But not bad at all. Arguably her greatest military achievement that outlasted her failure was securing a long lasting Tang military alliance that would literally bring down Goguryeo and Baekje within the next decade and a half. The worse of her military setbacks was a castle she lost in what is now South Gyeongsang Province which crippled her trade routes with Tang China due to its position. While this was a major blow to Silla there is no evidence to suggest that this hit the Silla economy abnormally hard apart from the impact that was expected. Furthermore this area was recovered by the Tang-Silla alliance at a later date. The very same alliance some people are using as a point against her (I'll address this soon). Also someone said that she lost Gyeongju Castle.... this is a straight up lie. Gyeongju (or Seorabol/Geumsong as it was called back then) was the Silla capital and at the time growing into one of the world's largest cities (it reached about 1 million people by the year 720). SEONDEOK NEVER LOST HER CAPITAL OR THE CASTLE THAT GUARDED HER CAPITAL. 5.) Silla became far more centralized and the state became less feudal. This literally gave the central Silla government the ability to govern the land with less interference from powerful warlords and nobles. 6.) She was not as lavish or as corrupt as anyone has said here. The largest of her projects were normally public works such as temples, scientific compounds, and roads. While these were indeed expensive they ensured a Silla that was more centralized, cultured, and connected. 7.) THERE ARE NO ACCOUNTS BY HER CONTEMPORARIES of her being corrupt or overly lavish (compared to let's say her predecessors). In fact one of the surviving accounts of her states that she was very smart, kind, and concerned with the welfare of the state. 8.) She supported Buddhism in Silla. This may not seem huge, but I cannot stress enough how central this was in the formation of Silla's culture, government, and the modern Korean culture and identity. 9.) Almost every account of her being a terrible person or ruler comes from the Joseon dynasty over 700 years after. Keep in mind the Joseon Dynasty adopted a hard-line Confucian stance on government and the role of women. Specifically one that codified that women were not fit to rule or govern. A lot of the negative accounts as a result are riddled with 15th and 16th century Joseon sexism that specifically exacerbated or dramatized her shortcomings. How do we know this is true? For one because Silla, Tang, and even Baekje and Goguryeo accounts recall her differently. Furthermore because the later Goryeo dynasty (who had no female rulers and barred them from succession) never had an official state account of her being a terrible person. This is coming from the dynasty that would overthrow the Silla. 10.) Economically the Silla thrived in her period. She did have a temporary hiccup when she lost control over a Tang-Silla trade route as mentioned above, but it was later recovered. BUT she built a lot of roads throughout Silla. It helped increase internal trade and movement of goods. Furthermore her alliance with the Tang isolated Baekje and Goguryeo from the Tang court. This gave Silla a monopoly on Tang Chinese trade to the peninsula and cut off Goguryeo and Baekje's largest and geographically most significant trade routes apart from Wa Japan. It made Silla extremely wealthy. 11.) She was far more willing to give out posts by merit rather than traditional favoritism. Of course there was rampant favoritism. But compared to other Silla monarchs you saw a lot of people get their posts based on merit. Her chief three generals were all great examples of this. 12.) Somebody on this forum claimed she was so hated that she was killed by her people in a fort after a month and a half siege. Not sure where this came from at all. She died while there was a rebellion going on by a noble called Lord Bidam. By all accounts Bidam led the revolt against her under the guise that she was a"women and unfit to rule". His real reason other than his rampant sexism was that as discussed before Seondeok helped to further centralize the Silla. She took away a lot of power from local lords and handed them off the the central government. Nobles like Bidam were pissed so they rebelled. Bidam's rebellion failed by the way a few days after her death. Her death by all accounts was recorded as natural as she was an estimated 60-65 years old by then (historians debate her exact age). 13.) After Silla victory over their rivals in 668 via a Tang alliance that she set up, the Tang occupied 4/5ths of the peninsula because they thought they had a claim to the land because of their alliance. In eight years Silla after guerrilla warfare and a tributary agreement gained the peninsula from the Taedong river south. Keep in mind this was after Seondeok had died and the Tang reneged on their previous agreement not to occupy those lands. You can argue this is Seondeok's fault (stupidly) for allowing a ambitious Tang into the fold. But considering the Tang always had interest in the Korean peninsula before and after Seondeok and bound to help one of the Three Kingdoms in some way it was probably the smartest move on her part to subplant Baekje and Goguryeo as Tang's main Korean ally in order to gain a temporary alliance with the region's super power of the time. A lot of the accounts cited against her were accounts used by Confucian Joseon scholars who specifically were against female equity and rulers. They painted Seondeok in a horrible light to specifically justify the philosophy behind primogeniture and succession being male only. Contemporary historians generally agree that she was a relatively good and able ruler of the Silla dynasty and set the stage for Korean unification. A lot of the opinions do not mean to be sexist (some of them do), but they do seem to draw from an outdated and tainted understanding of Seondeok planted by a philosophy that had no qualms about advancing a sexist historiography. I really really really hope more people (including my fellow Koreans) do more research before blasting inaccurate criticism. While I don't think she is the best choice for Korea's leader in Civ VI, I do think she is perfectly fine choice with a kick ass crown. submitted by /u/Ethnicity-Ambiguous [link] [comments]

A distant relative to the canal city - straits city Posted: 07 Dec 2017 08:37 AM PST submitted by /u/Piast_Wheelwright [link] [comments]

Can we eliminate the poor start photos? Posted: 07 Dec 2017 09:47 AM PST Every once in a while there is a glitch that comes up in the game which just breeds low effort or uninteresting posts. I think most people agree the posts that have popped up recently showing you conquer a settler on turn 1 or spawn with your warrior on top of their settler have gotten boring. Can we make a policy to just remove these? They are kind of against rules 3/4 but not directly. Feel free to disagree or agree below. TL;DR: We should expand rule 4 to include glitches that become common knowledge/ over-posted even if they aren't graphical in nature. submitted by /u/MariskaHargitokay [link] [comments]

Sorry England [VI] Posted: 07 Dec 2017 01:55 AM PST submitted by /u/plaank [link] [comments]

The Civ Unique Abilities in VI are boring Posted: 07 Dec 2017 04:17 PM PST After watching the Korea trailer, I can't help but notice most of the Unique Abilities in Civ VI are simple stat bonuses, often really minor +1 or +2's to food, production, and science. I find this dull. Back in Civilization V, Unique abilities were, on the whole, truly UNIQUE. Some Civs could do things no other could. Not only that, but the UA's really made you feel unique. As my treasure fleets scoured the seas, I felt like Venice. As my hordes of Impi charged across the continent, I felt like the Zulu. As my Damaged troops charged battalions and cut them down, I felt like Japan. When I get +1 adjacency bonuses from Jungles, I don't feel like Brazil. When I have extra museum slots, I don't feel like England. When I build an extra district, I really don't feel like Germany. If I'm going to get invested in this new expansion, I really need to see some UA's that actually make the civs feel unique instead of little bonuses that can be replicated with social policies. submitted by /u/Ztard [link] [comments]

I am extremely disappointed in Firaxis's choice for Korea's leader. Posted: 07 Dec 2017 06:31 PM PST It seems abundantly clear to me that Firaxis has abandoned all sensibilities by choosing Seondeok as Korea's leader. I find it quite disturbing that they went with this choice when there is obviously a much better option that has gone unconsidered. Gandhi is clearly the best choice for Korea's leader, and it baffles me that he was not chosen for the job. I mean, just compare the two's accomplishments. Did Seondeok ever liberate Korea from the imperial tyranny of Britain? No! Did Seondeok utilize Hinduism and national identity to build a steady base of support? No! Did Seondeok amass a nuclear arsenal capable of blotting out the sun? Of course not! And which places did each leader rule? Seondeok only ruled part of Korea. Gandhi, meanwhile, was never a ruler anywhere, making him suitable as the leader of any country. And if that's not enough, just look at their abilities! Gandhi is so strong and charismatic, he can literally sway millions into getting pissed off at their leaders when they make war against him. But Seondeok? She might as well be called Sitting Duck* without any bonuses to deter invaders! Now, I suppose it may be a little too late to change Firaxis's horrible, unforgivable mistake. But some leeway can at least be made, if they'll change Seondeok's appearance. Just thin her out, bald her, give her some glasses, and slap on a moustache and she should look the better part. submitted by /u/-SpaceCommunist- [link] [comments]

Just what is a "barbarian" anyway? Posted: 07 Dec 2017 09:22 AM PST These nameless, stateless ubiquitous hordes have been around since Civ 1 but they don't get the benefit of being designated. It's one of the few things around the Civ series that isn't historically accurate. As recently as the 1970s you might consider barbarians to include any sort of civilization that was warlike in nature but had not made significant cultural advancements. That could include North and South American native populations. The barbarians we tend to think of today would be the ones who invaded the Western Roman Empire in early AD with the Huns and the Lombards. Then the Vandals and the Suebi. The so-called "barbarian kingdoms" were comprised of real cultures as well, Germans, Huns, Turks, Persians, who migrated into Europe after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. I feel like the designation of people as being "barbarian" is a kind of Eurocentric view of history. It's especially strange in a video game which gives equal opportunities to civilizations which were considered savage not too long ago, like the Iroquois, the Zulus, etc. It would be kind of neat if barbarian nations existed in Civ video games as a historical people but based on their shallow potential in the video game they would probably be culturally offensive. submitted by /u/vram1974 [link] [comments]

How to move up from Prince to King? Posted: 07 Dec 2017 08:10 AM PST I was winning almost every game confidently in Prince, and decided to go up to King for a challenge. Picked Scythia, and tried to rush Sakia Horse Archers and took over a few city states with some trouble. But before I know it, Rome is at my door step and has surprise warred me. He takes my (Renaissance walled) capital without trouble, and waltzes into two other cities of mine and takes them. Rome was pulling well ahead (halfway through cultural victory, atomic Era in 1300 AD, and was near to pumping out ATs. What happened? How do I counter civs that are huge bullies? submitted by /u/Eaele [link] [comments]

The Most Legendary Start and Conquest Ever Posted: 07 Dec 2017 08:06 AM PST submitted by /u/rantingprimate [link] [comments]

I think Seondeok is a bad queen Posted: 06 Dec 2017 11:17 PM PST I am a korean likes Civ series She has the advantages, but the disadvantages are four times more. She makes the oldest perfectly remaining star observatory, build many Buddhist temples that are now ruins and Buddhist theology was promoted. But this is the end. [add: although the alliance with China has threatened Koreans after unification(As soon as the unification, China betrayed.), but it is clear that the her foundation of allied forces with them helped to unify. Sorry I did not think about that.] She loses 44~52 castles (At that time, it was customary to build one castle for each administrative jurisdiction in Korea, so lands are included), one of them were the castle next to the capital. She loses 80% of the country Also, she has been unable to control strong corrupted servants and has weakened the kingship. During the war, she continue to spend money to build temples and have luxury.... Even she first get the fire of war to neighboring country by naming the rooms of temple as name of city in neighboring country. When she was in diplomacy with China, she was ridiculed because she did not know Chinese culture. In the end, she was killed by the people who rise up in her tyranny. I think Seondeok is like Hoover of the United States or Mary of England. Disaster. submitted by /u/rathell100 [link] [comments]

Not sure what to do during mid game (Civ 6). Posted: 07 Dec 2017 06:23 PM PST I'm a long time Civ 5 player who is at a loss of what to do during the mid game. In Civ 5 this involved getting internal trade routes up and building universities after getting the National college. What sorts of things should I be doing in Civ 6? submitted by /u/bobert890 [link] [comments]

Well, well, well, how the turntables... Posted: 07 Dec 2017 03:19 PM PST submitted by /u/old_and_lame [link] [comments]

AI's aversion to declaring war Posted: 07 Dec 2017 04:24 PM PST One of the biggest problem I have with Civ 6 is that after the classical era the AI is way too peaceful and the difficulty does not affect this aspect at all. I want to use my units, not spend 500 turns skipping turns. Is there any way to manually change the AI's likeliness to declare war to both human and computer players via a specific mod ? For example through a certain line of code in the Smarter AI mod ? Thanks ! submitted by /u/Morteinsen [link] [comments]

Which wonders are worth it? Posted: 07 Dec 2017 10:45 AM PST I generally try to stay away from Wonders, just because unless I'm way ahead in the tech/civics tree the AI generally has enough of a head start to get them and I don't want to risk losing production. What are your wonder power rankings? With what situations/leaders do certain wonders become crucial? (IE Petra in a mostly desert city). submitted by /u/Canuckleball [link] [comments]

Does anyone know a good Civ YouTube series to watch? Posted: 07 Dec 2017 08:20 AM PST I've started watching Yogscast play and they are funny and all, but they are just so bad at the game it makes it difficult to enjoy. Do you guys know any channels where I can watch good players? I enjoy watching for entertainment and I feel like it helps me get better at the game. Thanks for your help! submitted by /u/CptnBo [link] [comments]

Population Frenzy Posted: 07 Dec 2017 09:54 AM PST submitted by /u/Clyran [link] [comments]

The Inca Dream Posted: 06 Dec 2017 05:40 PM PST submitted by /u/Ynnad00 [link] [comments]

Petra and Ruhr Valley Porn Posted: 07 Dec 2017 05:22 PM PST submitted by /u/DerMonti [link] [comments]

Anyone else think it is too easy to be the Germans on Civ6? Posted: 07 Dec 2017 09:45 AM PST I usually play as America (Fuck Yeah), but after beating the game on some of the hardest levels with them I am on a mission to win with every civ. I was working my way through all the civs when I played as the Germans, and noticed that I can win with extreme ease regardless of any starting position. I was just curious if anyone else had a similar opinion. submitted by /u/NathanRZehringer [link] [comments]

Upgrading to High Sierra broke the DLCs in Civ V Posted: 07 Dec 2017 05:08 PM PST Type of Bug: DLC Game Type: Multiplayer Description: After upgrading to High Sierra, I no longer saw the civs from the BNW DLC, despite it showing as being installed. After a lot of testing, I discovered that I now have to choose between G&K or BNW. If both are selected, none of BNW civs are available, and if my partner chooses one of those civs, it shows that I don't have the necessary DLC to play that game. If I un-check G&K, then I get the BNW civs. BUT - in a multi-player game, the connection drops every move and the game reloads. Video / Screenshot: Reproduction rate: Steps to reproduce: Expected result: Observed result: Mods Used: System specs: submitted by /u/susurrously [link] [comments]

The trailer is showing some of the new Civs Posted: 07 Dec 2017 02:44 PM PST In the trailer we see Sean Bean Jr dressed in the exact same clothes as Seondeok. Afterwards we see the her depicted riding a horse with a bow, very similar to the Mongolians we have yet to see. After a bit we see her again in the Netherlands(she has a map with Amsterdam on it) during Nazi occupation. I think the we'll see the Netherlands and Mongolia announced next. Side note-We also see a colosseum battle, a plague somewhere in Europe, the discovery of the New World, and the Berlin Wall. But none of these would be new Civs. submitted by /u/ModKate [link] [comments]

Question about We are Family achievement Posted: 07 Dec 2017 07:59 PM PST I heard that this achievement is broken. And I've read about some various ways of getting this achievement and I wanted to double check with this sub. So if I play on hot seat with two civs, have Player 1 found a religion in a city other than the capital, spread that religion to Player 2's capital, then spread it to Player 1's capital, the achievement should unlock? submitted by /u/Ranger1219 [link] [comments]

A question about scientific output (Civ VI) Posted: 07 Dec 2017 03:11 PM PST TL;DR: How do I maximize science output in Civ VI to get and stay ahead? Hey guys, I'm fairly new to Civ VI and have a question about how to maximize my scientific output. I am currently locked in a match playing as Russia, with Arabia as my neighbor. I have as many cities as he does, and I am playing on difficulty 2 (so I can get a proper handle on the game and it's systems). Despite playing on the second easiest difficulty, I am researching Replaceable Parts while Arabia is halfway into discovering Satellites. I'm confused how he does this since his empire is the same size as mine, and though I realize his UA is slightly geared towards science, +1 science for every foreign city following his religion shouldn't be creating this much of an advantage for him. I have a university in every city, and am currently building research labs in about half of them. It says that I am 5 technologies ahead of him but the scroll bar on the tech tree shows him way ahead of me, so which is it, and what does his icon on the scroll bar indicate? Other stuff worth noting: -I have about 1400 hours of Civ V racked up, but am brand new to Civ VI. In V, I would amass a large population to take advantage of libraries and universities before using observatories, jungle, and trading posts to get science output out of my tiles, how do I take the same advantage in VI? -The only DLC I have is the Aztecs so it's very much a Vanilla copy of the game submitted by /u/KAPTAIN_KRISPEE [link] [comments]