True Dota 2 - Understanding power spikes (x-post from /r/learndota2)


Understanding power spikes (x-post from /r/learndota2)

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 11:30 AM PDT

Understanding how to properly play around a hero's power spikes is a fundamental skill in Dota. In a nutshell, a power spike is when you obtain an important milestone for a hero (e.g. levels or items) that gives you a sharp increase in power. This is a component of a hero's overall power curve, which is their general strength throughout the game. I think that most people have a broad understanding of this concept - we all know that spectre is weak early and strong late game, for example - but people often fail to capitalize on the narrow timing windows in which they can make an outsized impact.

One thing that I want to stress throughout this guide is that your power is 100% relative to the power of the other heroes in the game. A lvl 10 Slark with Shadow Blade at 14 minutes is exactly as strong as a lvl 10 Slark with SB at 20 minutes; the difference is how strong everyone else is at those times. The Slark who hit their timings early will be able to tear through squishies like tissue paper, whereas the Slark who hit their timings late will be significantly less scary. Everyone is constantly growing stronger over time; if you just bought an important item, the opposing carry might be 30 seconds away from buying theirs. That is why power spikes are so dependent on timing: if you fail to capitalize on the window in which you are strongest, you are giving your opponents the opportunity to catch up. Ideally, you want to be in position to immediately take advantage of hitting a power spike in order to maximize the discrepancy between your strength and your opponents.

Here are a few practical examples to show this in action:

  • Scenario 1: I'm playing Lina mid vs Storm Spirit. Lina is generally a stronger laner than SS pre-6, so let's assume that I am able to harass SS out of lane a few times and get an advantage in XP. I know that I'm going to hit 6 first, and Laguna Blade will give me kill potential on SS. I might only get a 30 second window in which I'm 6 and SS is 5, so I want to take full advantage of it. I should try to pull the lane towards my side of river to get SS in a more vulnerable position. I should try to harass SS to get him low on health. I should make sure that I'm in a good position and won't get body-blocked by creeps. Ideally, I should also prepare ahead and make sure I have a ward up so I don't end up walking into a gank. The instant I hit 6 I need to look for an opportunity to go all-in on SS, because my window is rapidly closing until he hits 6 as well and we're on more even terms.

  • Scenario 2: I'm playing Drow Ranger and I hit level 6. My ability to tear down towers is almost unrivaled at this point in the game. My ability to flash-farm is mediocre at best, however. I could AFK farm in lane, but there are plenty of heroes who are better at that than Drow. I'd get stronger, sure, but the enemy SF will be getting stronger faster than me because he has superior farming skills. To truly utilize my power spike, I want to start destroying the enemy's towers ASAP. I need to farm as well, of course, but I should try to take advantage of this window where my pushing power is relatively higher than everyone else's. Pro Drow games tend to be very fast, because they play to her strengths: ending games early.

  • Scenario 3: There is a Night Stalker on the other team, we just hit the first night, and he's missing from lane. Where do you think he went? He's trying to gank someone, dillweed. His name is Night Stalker. You know that's what he wants, so play accordingly: don't overextend, put down wards, and be safe. There is nothing sadder than seeing a NS go a whole night without getting a kill. He goes from being a terrifying predator to a door-to-door sales guy desperately trying to get you to buy his overpriced Cutco knives. Understand your opponent's power spikes, and avoid letting them snowball off their windows of relative strength.

  • Scenario 4: I'm playing Lina vs SS again, but this time I'm 0-3-0. The first fight was close - SS got away with just a sliver of health. A strong breeze could have finished him off. The second time he survived with 20% of his HP. The third time he dove me under my tower, blew me up, and then zipped away laughing at 50%. What the hell happened? Every time that he killed me, the discrepancy between our power levels grew. What should I do? Just like in Alcoholics Anonymous, the first step is that I need to admit that I have a problem. My first death might not have been my fault - it could have gone either way. But every subsequent death can be attributed to not respecting his increasing power relative to mine. In my experience, this is the single biggest cause of feeding in lane. I need to acknowledge that I simply can't 1v1 him right now. I might not even be able to farm in lane if he's present. I need to get farm or kills elsewhere until I've narrowed the gap.

This has turned into a Purge-length wall of text, so I'll try to wrap things up. Knowing when you are strong, what you are strong at, and how to utilize that power properly is a necessary part of playing a hero optimally. Pros aren't just good at the mechanics of their heroes - they know the exact timing of these power spikes, can hit these timings consistently, and know how to push these advantages to the fullest.

TL;DR 1) Understand your power spikes. 2) Take advantage of windows of relative strength. Don't waste them. 3) Respect the power spikes of your opponents. 4) Be aggressive when you are relatively strong, and be defensive when you are relatively weak.

submitted by /u/jtaulbee
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Bristle + Oracle

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 10:31 AM PDT

So, Bristle likes to run in and muck people up.
Oracle is good at keeping people alive.
Natural synergy.

But then you have a unique(?) interaction where you get to give Bristle extra procs via purifying flames because you can damage allies.

Bristle with max quill and lvl2 passive takes 210 damage(because of oracles natural spell amp at 34int or better), is healed for 396 over time, and procs a quills. First time quill, every time quill.

God forbid oracle gets an aghs scepter. Literally adding 186 "net healing over time", every second, with a bonus quill proc, every second. (That's almost double alchemist's max ultimate heal)

Let me repeat that, think into that long fight where bristle has 5 stacks on everyone, that 6th quill proc happens ~15 seconds into the fight, and starts hitting like a truck. With oracle, that 6th proc happens 3 seconds into the fight. Then you start hitting for the bigger stacked quills.

If Bristle levels passive to 4(reasonable), you only get a bonus quill proc every other purifying flames, but the net healing goes up because he takes less damage.

As oracle you will be permanently tapped for mana. Mana boots, soul ring, aether lens, maybe even euls all help solve the issue.

I'm 2 for 2 so far(yes very little combat experience) and low 2.5k mmr, and one of the bristles was permabad, but still made it work. Seems super good though.

Thoughts? Pushing the combo greedier you'd maybe 3rd man OD for the infinite manas or alchemist for the aghs(as oracle is not necessarily going to get aghs level farm, even with the stupid lvl15 gpm talent).

To me it was, "oh that can't possibly work, it's too good". But then it works. I thought maybe bristle would be coded to only proc based on enemy damage.

submitted by /u/punriffer5
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Mana boots < Soul Ring + Tranquils

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 09:46 AM PDT

What do you all think about this? Lately, on most supports and pos 4s, I've been forgoing mana boots to buy a soul ring plus tranquils. The hp regen synergizes nicely with the soul ring active. Not to mention the greater movespeed which is always nice and the passive mana regen from the ring. Its only 425 more gold for the tranquils + soul ring makes me think that there is rarely ever a reason to buy mana boots on a support. The only time I would buy mana boots is if my teammates desperately needed extra mana during team fights etc. What do you all think?

submitted by /u/AnimalsOfEarth
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Why is Lich considered a good mek carrier?

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 08:04 AM PDT

Seems like most mek carriers are tanky offlaners who build mana boots. Lich is squishy, has little farm, and builds tranquil boots. Why build a mek on him when he doesn't have an upgrade path for it, and he gets murdered in the middle of team fights trying to provide the aoe?

submitted by /u/ak1247
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False Prophets - Just because a player has a mic doesn't mean he knows what he's doing

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 08:45 AM PDT

tl;dr: The mute button is your friend.


Hey folks, I wanted to talk about something I've encountered more than a few times in DotA 2, the "False Prophet." False Prophets are players who communicate reguarly in voice chat and sound competent enough to become the de facto shotcaller of the team, but don't actually know what they're doing.

I posted about this on /r/learndota2/ a while back, but Reddit's search function is really bad and I can't find that post of mine (it wasn't a submission but a comment).

There's a lot of advice given to ignore the toxic players on your team and just focus on your gameplay. However, a lot of advice also focuses on communication, particularly the art of talking and listening to your team. However, False Prophets are generally not toxic unless they are questioned by your teammates, and even some will remain friendly throughout the game.

The first time I encountered this type of player was around two years ago. This guy was friendly throughout the game and it didn't become obvious that he didn't know what he was talking about until all outer towers were gone from the map. It was a Medusa player who was having problems with mass enemy units (PL illusions and/or NP treants, can't remember which). I clicked on him and saw that he didn't have Split Shot. Instead, he got stats after maxing out Mystic Snake and Mana Shield (DotA 2 still had stats as a leveling option back then).

I asked him to get Split Shot and he replied that it was useless. I said no, Split Shot is awesome, but he then said that pros never used Split Shot, and I must not watch pro games of DotA 2 because I didn't know this. He claimed to have been to every International.

Bullshit.

Unfortunately, he was friendly the entire game even after I called him out for it, and half the team believed him. One player believed me. The conflict between us resulted in chaos during team fights, where he'd tell people to get back even though we had the advantage. Wipe the enemy team? He'd tell us to get back instead of taking towers or Rosh. Bad call after bad call were heeded by the team because he sounded reasonable even though his advice (including item recommendations) was bullshit.


Full Disclosure: I came here to rant about my last game. We had a False Prophet on our team that I didn't recognize in time, and he was making bad calls throughout the game. Eventually, he started blaming the team for dying even though he kept Leeroying into the enemy team and not waiting for his slower teammates to catch up to him.

Ironically, in the game before this, our team did really well since the chatty would-be shotcaller in that game was blatantly hostile and even racist, so he got instantly muted before he could tilt the team. If our False Prophet in this game were more toxic and less friendly, we might've done better.


I don't have any real advice on how to deal with False Prophets other than to mute them and/or just focus on playing the game.

Just bringing awareness of this issue to my fellow DotA 2 players. :)

submitted by /u/AronTimes
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Underlord winrate in 7.06d

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 09:51 AM PDT

https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/winning?date=patch_7.06d Underlord has a 59% winrate this patch compared to 54% earlier this week, why is this? Is the buff to firestorm the only reason?

submitted by /u/jeusifi
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Can someone explain unique attack modifiers specifically in relation to certain abilities i.e. omni slash, monkey king ult, riki ult, luna glaives? Also how do you know if something will modify my special (non right click attacks)

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 07:36 AM PDT

Toggling between quickcast and normal cast

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 08:32 AM PDT

Is there a way to toggle between them without having to open settings?

For example alt clicking toggles auto cast for some abilities.

submitted by /u/insightfulFucks
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How would you build carry Mirana without Aghs?

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 01:50 PM PDT

I'm thinking something like Aquila -> treads/Phase -> DL. After that I'm not sure. Whatever the game calls for?

submitted by /u/Fortune_451
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Mask of Madness on Wraith king?

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 01:22 PM PDT

Is it good? And if you were to build it, in what order would you purchase items?

submitted by /u/daltoj12
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What should be Dazzle's optimal skill build on various situation?

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 08:44 AM PDT

According to Dotabuff, maxing Poison Touch is not one of the popular builds.

However, I feel that when there's no combo (such as Meepo, heroes with illusions) with Shadow Wave available, Dazzle should mostly max Poison Touch.

Level 1 Shadow Wave cost 90 mana, 12s CD, heals up to 3 units (excluding Dazzle) for 80 HP each. Every level increase in Shadow Wave +10 mana, -2s CD, +1 unit healed, +20 HP. These number seems insignificant when Dazzle can't make use of the damage.

If you look at Poison Touch, the numbers growth aren't significant too, but the slow (and stun at Level 4) is significant.

Level 1 and 4 Shadow Wave HP/Mana is 80/90=0.89 and 140/120=1.17 respectively. The difference is only 1.17-0.89=0.28 which is not significant at all if you merely want Shadow Wave for the heal outside fights. So, one level of Shadow Wave is fine as a value point. Something to take note is that the damage Shadow Wave can deal to one unit is so much more than it can heal one unit. It makes Shadow Wave only useful offensively. Obviously, the decreased CD allows Dazzle to heal more during fights which is something to consider.

I feel in general, the decision to max Poison Touch or Shadow Wave at Level 7 should depend on whether Dazzle can make use of Shadow Wave's damage because it can deal more damage than it can heal on one unit.

Is there something I'm missing that makes maxing Poison Touch unpopular or everyone only plays Dazzle when they can do Shadow Wave combo?

submitted by /u/DottMySaviour
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Best mids of 7.06?

Posted: 11 Jun 2017 07:33 PM PDT

I usually mid in the stack I play with, and I'm wondering what the best mids of the patch are. What do you all think?

submitted by /u/DerAmazingDom
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SF decision making/itemization in the mid to late game?

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 05:24 AM PDT

Hi, I've fallen in love with shadowfiend recently as I love how strong of a laner he is, but I can't often seem to pull off the win

This game for example I was level 25 while other hero's were around 14 to 17, and I still felt like there was nothing I could do. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3243404337 this was a different item build that I would normally do though as I decided shadowblade wasn't a good idea vs slardar and bounty, but even with my normal build I sometimes still have issues. I didn't buy a bkb because most of the time the rest of my team was taking the stuns etc, but I acknowledge I needed one coming into the late game.

If anyone could point me to some pro players vods to watch and genral guides or just simply help me to answer these questions:

When should I be active on the map?

Should I be ganking before an item like shadowblade without a good rune?

How do I know my power spike and when to start trying to end

Thank you guys a lot.

submitted by /u/NeptuneDota
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Is slark viable for lower mmr matches?

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 05:12 AM PDT

Im looking for a hero to spam with until im out from 2k bracket and slark comes to mind since hes the hero im only good with. Pls tell me if hes still viable in 7.00 despite the bad winrate dotabuff has shown (45% on 2k bracket).

submitted by /u/Icyfrost35
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Roaming Tusk - what to do mid-late game?

Posted: 12 Jun 2017 10:38 AM PDT

Okay so I've been playing this roaming tusk and it's working quite well because on my MMR I can crush enemy lanes easily (coz they are often weak) and that allows our team's weak lanes to get farm.
However I'm not sure what to do after the 20-25 minute mark. I usually have score around 4-1-8 at that point, but I don't have a lot of farm or levels. Ganking becomes impossible, because enemy usually moves in groups or they have escape and in bigger fights Tusk feel kinda underwhelming and dies really quickly, so I often finish with a score like 7-6-11. Some tips on what to do later? I tried different combination of items, usually something like this: (Stick)-Boots-Bottle-(Urn)-Arcane Boots-Medailon-(Solar Crest/Blink/Halberd/...)

submitted by /u/Zbynasuper
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What two heroes do you think are most similar to each other?

Posted: 11 Jun 2017 08:45 PM PDT

In terms of playstyle, skills, and itemization. When I was a total noob I thought Lich and CM were very similar--frost nova, mana restore skill, AOE nuke teamfight ult, differing only with frost armor and frostbite. Now I realize they are pretty different, with CM being a roamer and Lich being a lane dominator.

Likewise, I used to think WK and CK were almost the same hero. Armlet/Echo builders with a hard stun, crit, and lifesteal. Differing mainly in their ultimates... I still think they are pretty similar compared to other heroes.

Are there other heroes that you consider to be very similar to each other?

submitted by /u/ak1247
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Is oracle back?

Posted: 11 Jun 2017 07:51 PM PDT

seen him picked up in a few pro games. Opinions?

submitted by /u/17heym
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