Unlabelled Killing Floor EDAR´s in a Nutshell

5/19/2018 10:24:00 pm
A+ A- Print Email

Killing Floor EDAR´s in a Nutshell

EDAR´s in a Nutshell

Posted: 19 May 2018 06:27 AM PDT

Doomstick Alt-fire does full damage if you at least have 2 shells.

Posted: 19 May 2018 03:33 AM PDT

Husk is the real MVP

Posted: 18 May 2018 10:00 PM PDT

Upgrade system feedback and how to be disgruntled while still seeming reasonable.

Posted: 19 May 2018 05:39 AM PDT

I start this little segment with a reference to the Vermintide 2 community where the recent patch by fatshark fucked up the balance on a ton of weapons and generally turned the game into a even buggier mess for many people. This patch was in a 'test server' like killing floor 2's most recent patch and the way the community responded to the changes was different from how i've seen people respond to it here.

Instead of threatening to leave and making up a history of developers ignoring the players when that is clearly not true.. it was brought to the attention of the developers through a thing called "feedback".

Instead of creating bitter montages and whiny rants on twitch and youtube on how "unskilled" the game now is and how the developers killed their babies there was a general push for 'change' without a underlying belly of hate and horrible spouting of vitriol with some preaching message of 'these devs are oblivious and i am leaving :'('.

I get that people are upset about some of the changes. But if the people i have seen on the forums and twitch are representative of the 'skilled veteran players' then by fuck please do leave.

With that said..

The upgrade system
something i largely agree with as someone probably not part of the 'veteran players' (idk if you're a veteran with 700 hours played).

I feel like many the upgrade system has a place in killing floor 2. But that that place shouldn't be inside the entire game and every single one of it's modes.

A good argument i've seen made by people is that guns before this patch each had a role or 'niche' which set them apart from other weapons in their class. Alongside the general idea that this implementation turns the weapon system into a balancing nightmare.

I personally feel the same way in the sense that a flat damage upgrade completely screws up the 'niches' or 'intended roles' of these weapons and just turns the entire pool of them into a grey area.

Do i use this gun that fires fast and has 42 bullets.
Or do i use this gun that fires fast and has 30 bullets.

I have some ideas that have been floating around ever since the news of this system came forwards and i'd like to know what others think of them.

Make the upgrades affect stats that don't directly relate to the damage output or do so while retaining the original damage stats per projectile

There are more things that affect how 'good' a weapon is.
Upgrading a weapon could mean the damage per bullet does not go up (so retaining their original role and damage stats pre beta patch) but could alter their

Weapon swap speed
Weapon time to ads speed
Reload speed
Recoil
Rate of fire
Burst delay
Stun potential
Explosion radius
Push angle
Block angle
Block timing window
Block effectiveness
Melee bash speed

These stats could all be altered for minor to drasticly higher values through the current upgrade system to make them "better" without altering their original roles or 'niches' too much.


Make the upgrades affect the role of a weapon through a ammo type, carried ammo count or upgrades to anything BUT a single flat damage output stat

Killing floor 2's setting is wacky enough to allow for a wide range of gun addons and ammunition upgrades. Anything from stun ammo and freeze ammo to ammo that corrodes or even prevents zeds from using their abilities.

As a extra interesting mechanic you could make these ammo types a tradeoff meaning something like hardpoint ammo would do more damage to armor but less to non armored areas.
A conscious choice that a player would really have to think about before choosing to make a tradeoff.

A flat increase to the amount of ammo you are able to carry for a weapon wouldn't be out of place either as modes like endless increase enemy count but never open up the option to increase the amount of ammo you can carry.


Limit the upgrade system to endless mode
Endless mode in many ways is the right place for a upgrade system. It is the ideal place for people to have fun with different setups and it's still challenging enough at higher waves due to the rng mechanics and wacky additions this mode brings.

Upgrading your gun has a place (imo) in a mode that is centered around this idea of 'endless' waves that increase in difficulty every time.

You also earn so much money in this mode that the prices at higher levels feel much more balanced in comparison to a setting where your final earning are determined by the amount of waves you are doing.


Carried ammo count increase and the introduction of a .5 or weight count

Again, the option to 'increase' the amount of ammo i can carry for a weapon just feels like it has a place in kf2 even in regular modes. The weight increase for a weapon is the perfect explanation for this as well although i would prefer to see the introduction of a .x weight type to make it so that there's more freedom in what we can combine and how much we choose to alter the weight of each weapon.

I could probably think of more solutions to this 'problem' people are seeing over the coming days as playtime in the beta goes up.
So far i do not see this system transitioning to live in it's current state hoping it will go a simular route to the early acces "damage resistance" patch which was almost entirely removed/reworked by tripwire.

I think it has a place in killing floor 2 as a game wide system in certain ways after some huge changes or as a endless exclusive system with some minor changes and perhaps wackier additions.


TL:DR : Suggestions to significantly modify the upgrade system and expressing my annoyance at the way some people in the community voice their concerns in the form of condescending cries of 'unkilled' play and threats to leave.

Thank you for reading.

submitted by /u/King_Kroket
[link] [comments]

New Fists are too fun.

Posted: 18 May 2018 10:53 AM PDT

Neat little secret on the new Airship map, there's a shark swimming in the water under the plant room

Posted: 19 May 2018 02:28 AM PDT

Me after the beta destroys everything I hold dear but I try out the upgraded Doomstick

Posted: 18 May 2018 02:57 PM PDT

The virgin incendiary trench gun vs the Chad Dragonsbreath

Posted: 18 May 2018 06:49 PM PDT

for the record, if you think HoE is too hard now, this is literally what the lower difficulties are for

Posted: 18 May 2018 04:26 PM PDT

If HoE is too hard, play Suicidal instead. If Suicidal is too hard, play Hard. If Hard is too hard, play Normal.

I know people probably hate reading this but "as a veteran kf1 player", I rarely played on HoE because it was hard as shit (also headshots in kf1 were really inconsistent but that's probably a fault of the old engine).

When I did play on HoE i had at least 2 other level 5-6 friends with me because you really do need a heavily coordinated team to play it. While new HoE isn't perfect, it's definitely nearer to KF1 HoE's level of difficulty. It actually takes a couple tries to beat a map on HoE and HoE is no longer the standard "at max level you need to play HoE in order to have any speck of difficulty in this game", it's more of a "if you're a good player and have good coordination with your team, this makes for an intense experience".

We really need to destroy the mindset that if you're not playing at the highest difficulty, you're a lesser player than everyone else. If you're not having fun with how hard HoE is now, or whatever difficulty, then play a lower difficulty. There's literally 0 shame in that.

If you really want to play HoE, work your way up. See if you can beat Hard without much of a problem, then Sui, then HoE.

The changes to HoE/difficulty to the game in general aren't minuscule changes that even the most seasoned players of vanilla KF2/HoE will adapt to immediately (in-fact i saw a post about some veteran players "leaving" kf2? why are you running?) (edit: nvm I was wrong, it's not because new HoE is too hard like i thought/saw in a post, it's for other reasons, so ignore that), it really is something to get used to after all that playtime on old HoE where victory was a 99.9% certainty with the exception of maybe sometimes the team gets stuck in a bad spot or the boss catches everyone off-guard or your team isn't coordinated enough.

TL;DR if new HoE is too hard for you/your team, there's literally 0 shame in playing a lower difficulty so you can at least have fun. New HoE isn't perfect, but consensus was that this game needed to be harder, and well, now it is. Because the changes are so dramatic, they can take some getting used to, so if you want to work your way back up the difficulty ladder, you should so you can get used to all the changes.

submitted by /u/BirbEnthusiast
[link] [comments]

Beta - Constructive Criticism

Posted: 19 May 2018 01:13 AM PDT

I hear a lot of complaining but only few suggestions. Isn't beta literally for us to make this update the way WE want it. TWI gave us in my opinion really good update (unbalanced) but still in a right way . However.....

Economy - I don't have other word apart from fucked-up. Yes we had full builds at wave 6 and had 5k free at boss if no one died and we needed some sort of dosh sink but now.... wave 6 you get your +2 on T3 weapon if you are lucky and constantly struggling for dosh and only around wave 8 is when you feel like sharing something. The fix is easy however. Increase dosh gain from zeds or reduce weapon upgrade costs to scale more linear. Instead of last 2 being 750 > 1500 make it like 550 > 1200.

Deaths - You are screwed. Bad. For the rest of the game. No one has money to give back at you and you rock T1 gun at wave 5 because you spawn back with 600 and cant buy anything. Considering you don't need just the gun but upgrades I think that after death respawn money could be a bit higher. Still punishes dying but you at least could recover.

Difficulty - Yes. Finally HoE is difficult again and gives proper challenge to win and I really like it this way however... It does it in an annoying way. Flying roomba's....

EDAR's - As from me and other who I asked everyone thinks they add a lot of difficulty but they come with few problems. They are bullet sponges when you meet them at wave 2 in a group of 3. One roomba ate 10 shells of T1 pump before going down.... Like... No. Not fun. Almost like that resistance update of tank stalkers. For their current health they spawn too early and in too many groups. Either make them spawn similar to quarter pounds (later waves and rarely) or reduce their health. Also another problem they bring is weird problem (not sure if just for me but) I run out of bullets. Maybe I am used to old HoE where at the end at the wave you could rail cysts but now I feel like ending waves 1-3 with 9mm.

Trapper - I like the idea of immobilizing zed, however cross-map maybe unavoidable light beam is so frustrating to deal with. I hate it so much with the combos they bring. Root into bloats, raged sc or anything else instantly kills you. Even getting rooted while reloading and running from simple gorefast can chunk you for half health. Personally I would like them either with indicator or change light beam to something like EMP nades being thrown at us with an indicator and instead of root, reduce our mov speed and maybe cancel our current action (zerker parry, reload, dart recharge). Current beam root is just unfun to play against.

Blaster, laser dude - I am ok with them but we really need better hit indicators. All you have now is silent weird thing and it doesn't fit with something that hits you for 20 from miles away. So just better indicator that you are getting hit.

Sound - Doomstick. Please remove global BOOOOOOM. I understand this is weapon of mass destruction (love it btw) but please should I really be able to communicate with other support using morse code from across the map?. Maybe leave the 4 shell being global still but not the 1 shell shots for sure.

M99 - If someone fires this gorgeous piece of animation porn right next to me it sounds like 9mm. I want to feel the power nearby. Increase the sound of it both for you and someone nearby you.

And lastly I dont know if it bug or no but I am seeing zeds being porting 1m from me, on my screen.

What are your ideas to make this update more enjoyable?

submitted by /u/Hvande
[link] [comments]

[Beta] Another Evaluation Post

Posted: 19 May 2018 06:28 AM PDT

TL;DR: Restricting the weapon upgrade system to Endless mode and rolling back the tier shifts + stat changes for tier 4 weapons would give Endless a more unique feel as well as save the current balance of Survival as well as keeping the positive changes from the beta and create a new tier for weapons like the Doomstick and M99

After some time spent with the beta and listening to a lot of conversations from both sides of the play spectrum (casual and high end). This summer update has a lot of both good and bad, I'm no authority on what TWI should do, but I'm just gonna offer my own thoughts on the upgrade system in it's current state and some possible solutions that might hopefully make a compromise for everyone.

The Upgrade System

Now one thing I am NOT going to do is offer suggestions on how to improve the upgrade system because not only is that going to be beating a dead horse, TWI has stated countless times almost everywhere that this is only the first iteration of the upgrade system and that it will improve and become more dynamic as time progress. I am just going to talk about the effects such a system is having on the core game and offer some highly suggested solutions.

So far the knee-jerk reaction has been both love and hate. Casual and newer players like it because it allows them to use their favorite weapon much more, but veterans and hardcore players don't appreciate the global nerf that removes all the unique niches that each weapon had as well as majorly screwing with the economics of the core game by disincentivizing money sharing.

While so far almost nobody thinks an upgrade system is a bad idea, its more so of how it was implemented and the ramifications it has on the core Killing Floor formula that is spinning a lot of heads.

Many players, myself included, found the way the vanilla KF2 was structured worked fine for the most part. But the beta (so far) has tempered a lot with this core experience as now it almost doesn't matter what weapon you pick, as any weapons is just as good as any other weapon in the game if upgraded enough, adding a sort of artificial variety to your loadouts.

Compounded with the global high tier weapon nerfs, the HoE difficulty increases, and the new eDAR enemies and you had players feeling unnecessarily weak without upgrades even at max level and it just wasn't a fun experience as guns people bought for their unique strengths and utility felt almost useless without upgrades.

Endless Restrictions & Survival Rollbacks

One possible compromise I've heard from both player types is that restricting the weapon upgrade system to Endless Mode would be a welcome change. I think this does a little more than just restoring former balance.

  • It would give Endless Mode more of it's own unique identity.
    • For me personally, before perk prestige, Endless didn't have much appeal to me as it was just survival that never ended and had occasional weekly mode waves. It was a sort of you get to 25 and (for the most part) you've experienced all it had to offer.

Restricting the weapon upgrade system to Endless Mode would make playing Endless, a mode that is supposed to get endlessly more difficult, far more re-playable. Instead of reaching a gear ceiling and just waiting the inevitable all Flesh Pound or all Scrake wave then either wiping or kiting forever then after being out of ammo just giving up out of boredom, you could have upgraded gear that scales with you and have actual options to sink your excess dosh into prolonging the experience and fun factor of the mode drastically.

  • It would restore some order and keep the core Killing Floor experience intact for Survival.

From the ground up, the core vanilla Survival is what Killing Floor 2 was built on and what it is balanced around. It's supposed to be a linear experience with a set start and end. The tier system personified that (In my opinion) perfectly, as you'd have your humble beginnings with mediocre weaponry then as the waves progressed you get bigger and badder guns for whats to come. It was a natural progression and it felt good to do so. This is what so many fans or the series new and old bought into, and it added a lot of hype behind new weapon additions as you didn't know much what it's stats would be and what sort of role it would fill.

 

Now this doesn't mean everything from the balance patch needs to removed from Survival in its entirety there are a handful of good quality changes that should stay, but also a lot of things should be rolled back to their original values and the upgrade system can just be adjusted accordingly.

What Should Go:

  • The global weapon tier shift and the stat nerfs that followed

The intention of these nerfs was that with the upgrade system your weapons may start out weak but with enough upgrades they'll be more powerful than they were pre-nerf.

What this ended up turning into is weapons most players remember being powerful turned extremely weak in their default states and the fact that all weapon upgrades capped out at tier 5 meant that you could get the same result sinking all your cash into upgrades on lower tier weapons and it felt like a waste of money in some cases to switch to the old tier 4 weapons if you didn't have the money.

What Should Stay:

Weapon Buffs & Some Nerfs

The following weapons received net-buffs in the beta and these are weapons that needed help and should stay in this state,

  • 9MM and Dual 9MM Pistols
    • Could use a slight max ammo increase IMO
  • M4 Combat Shotgun
  • SWAT SMG Ammo Cost Reductions
  • HMTech-201 SMG
  • Microwave Gun
  • M16 M203
  • Freeze Thrower
  • Probably more but these are just the big ones I could think of.

As well a couple of problematic weapons ended up getting nerfed, but far to severely with the wide scale tier shift most weapons had.

After reverting the Tier 4 to 3 changes these weapons could still use some slight toning back.

  • Huskcannon
    • This weapon was far to strong for it's spammable fire rate, unresonably high DPS for a charge-mechanic based weapon and relatively high ammo count.
    • Make the high burst damage very dependent on the charge so that spamming low charge fireballs doesn't out perform taking actual precise and well placed charged fireballs.
  • Rail Gun
    • Being the new "poor man's M99" this weapon was banned at high levels of play due to it being far to powerful for it's cost.
    • A slight damage nerf and a possible alternate mechanic could make this weapon more unique.

M99 and Doomstick

I'm not the type of person to advocate for the removal of weapons, nor do I want to see these weapons nerfed so hard that they're just expensive paper weights. The inherent brokenness of these weapons is by design (plus I'd be lying if I said they weren't fun to use) and they can still be extremely strong if acquiring them is a challenge. Instead of aligning these weapons with other Tier 4 weapons, they need they're own tier that has ridiculous costs that come with such power. Using something so broken should be a commitment, not something that can be easily gained.

  • Doomstick
    • Increase the weapon cost drastically
    • Increase the ammo cost drastically
    • Decrease the maximum ammo drastically
  • M99
    • Increase the weapon cost drastically
    • Increase the ammo cost drastically
    • Decrease the maximum ammo drastically

If you're going to be able to remove the hardest enemies in the game in a single shot/alt fire, you have to be only be able to do it a very small number of times. This makes misses very punishing and expensive.

I haven't had enough time nor have I heard any complaints about the Static Strikers being to good or to weak so I think they can stay at tier 4 status, if anything the Eviscerator could fill the tier 5 spot for zerk with some small buffs.

Some benefits to all this and final thoughts

  • It would make weapon upgrades feel like UPgrades instead of having to pay additional dosh just to return a weapon to it's original state.

If a rollback on nerfs is implemented and again the upgrades are restricted to Endless mode and you're able to upgrade from weapon's previous states you may get a higher power scale overall but that is where you can justify the current high costs of upgrades and the prices on upgrades for higher tier weapons could be increased even more so to make all the money you earn in endless actually spendable.

  • (Hopefully) make both player types happy

Those who love the system and love feeling super OP and strong will still have the system in the game but it will be in an environment that can match that level of crazyness. All the while keeping the current fine-tuned balance of Survival and the core system that the game was built on.

Closing thoughts on the beta so far:

All this drama about the upgrades aside there are a lot of good positive changes in the beta, just kind of hard to notice with all the commotion but the new maps are great, Mrs. foster looks promising, the Static Strikers are probably my favorite zerk weapons by far (PLEASE reconsider Martial Artist now that you see how fun fist weapons can be), the prestige system brought back my friends to the game and allows me to play with some new friends without being OP, and the new weapons look, sound, and feel great to use. So I gotta say thanks TWI!

And to everyone else, sorry for yet another super wall of text on this sub I'm sure I'm one of many, I tried to make the post easy to read and concise I just had a whole lot to say about all this please feel free to get angry with me.

submitted by /u/rockit_
[link] [comments]

E.D.A.R. Trappers in a nutshell

Posted: 18 May 2018 12:45 PM PDT

PSA: Treat EDARs as if they were Rioters

Posted: 18 May 2018 11:07 PM PDT

For anyone who hasn't figured it out yet, go for the legs. They drop super quickly, and now I honestly think they're fine HP wise. Their head and body acts like Rioter armor; you wouldn't unload a full clip into a Rioter's body.

If your perk can kill Rioters with one shot to the head (eg. Berserker with Smash, Sharpshooter, Gunslinger with REU stacks, etc), go for the head, it's an insta kill. Otherwise, shooting them in the legs kills them in 1-2 seconds.

submitted by /u/xXy0td3
[link] [comments]

E.D.A.R test info

Posted: 19 May 2018 08:17 AM PDT

Messed around with e.d.a.r s in a test map for awhile. Some of the info going around is wrong. All tests were on 6 man HOE

1.Head is only armor

Destroying it does nothing don't bother. Has 550 life, any overkill damage will be done to body. If the shot is enough damage to deplete the body heath then the headshot will kill it outright. Same with rioter headshots.

2.Front of chest has armor

Exactly like the rioter with the same amount of armor at 500. Body health is 700. Comparing my results to the spreadsheet it seems that while body health does change through difficulty the body/head armor does not.

3.Heart (chest battery) hitzone is inactive

Similar to hans or fp chest weakspots. Its supposed to take 1.4x damage but It seems that they disabled it (accidentally?). No real point to aiming for the chest.

4.Resist and weaknesses

Weak to microwave, slashing, bludgeoning. Resistant to piercing, fire, toxic. Look at spreadsheet for more comprehensive info.

Note: If you first shot the head off then shot the body until it died you would have to do a grand total of 1750 damage. This is where most of the "dars have too much life" complaints are coming from.

TLDR; shoot the legs. If you can do more than 700 health with one shot then shoot the head.

submitted by /u/Omnineco
[link] [comments]

If you inCYST. (pls kill me)

Posted: 18 May 2018 12:17 PM PDT

Summer Sideshow beta is awesome

Posted: 18 May 2018 05:13 PM PDT

Got m99 problems but a sniper aint 1

Posted: 18 May 2018 02:33 PM PDT

Floating weapons should be an option

Posted: 18 May 2018 11:53 AM PDT

As you may have seen with the current beta, sometimes the hand and arm models will be missing from your weapons, leaving them floating in mid air. While this isn't intentional and eventually your limbs will appear correctly, I actually like the look the floating weapons as it's reminiscent of classic retro games like GoldenEye 007 and TimeSplitters 1 and 2 (and probably other games too). Plus it lets you see just a little bit more during gameplay, mainly when attacking and reloading with your weapons.

Thus, even though it would be completely arbitrary, I would personally like to see an option to toggle on/off 1st person arm and hand models, so that we can keep the floating weapons. I doubt it would get added, though it would still be a fun additional none the less.

submitted by /u/TwistedLemon94
[link] [comments]

Degrade upgraded weapons

Posted: 19 May 2018 01:15 AM PDT

It would be neat if you could degrade upgraded weapons for more weight instead of rebuying them.

submitted by /u/JustASomebody326
[link] [comments]

We were all thinking it.

Posted: 18 May 2018 09:27 PM PDT

How to be an a-hole 101

Posted: 18 May 2018 04:21 PM PDT

On Weapon Upgrading

Posted: 19 May 2018 08:00 AM PDT

I'm not opposed to the idea. My only concern is balance issues, when you effectively quadruple the number of guns in the game with upgrade tiers.

Suggestion: All guns are either upgraded or not. They can only be upgraded once.

Balancing around this will probably be much easier, and still promote/allow for diversity in weapon choice.

It also has the added benefit of not increasing the complexity of the game "too much". What I mean by this is that you do not have to know how each and every gun performs for all of their 4-5 levels. Just 2, and that is very manageable.

Final point: it's less of a money sink. Teamplay & moneysharing can work again.

Thoughts on this? Ideas?

submitted by /u/DeletedTaters
[link] [comments]

Weapon upgrade free money

Posted: 18 May 2018 09:46 AM PDT

ideas for a Survivalist rework

Posted: 19 May 2018 07:19 AM PDT

As many might agree, the Survivalist perk is lacking the uniqueness that chracterizes a perks . Therefore I would like to present some ideas that I have been working on.

Weapons:
In order to emphasize the "survival" aspect it would be fun to place different types of traps, which can inflict damage or cc i.e. bear traps, explosive traps, bee traps, M18 claymore mines, etc.
As the Survivalist already has access to the freezethrower, there might some other MacGyver-like weapons, that work differently than the other weapons i.e. harpoon, balloon bomb, fire extinguisher bomb, sun-powered laser beam, etc.

Passives:
The current passives seems way too unspecific and could be replaced by effects like slow health regeneration or higher amount of carriable traps.

Specializations:
As a part of basic survival the Survivalist has to choose between higher damage output plus carry weigh or sustainability plus damage reduction. This furder enhances the idea of a "adapted" Survivalist.

If you have any other sugestions, feel free to share them in the comments.

EDIT: sorry for the formatting, I am currently on mobile

submitted by /u/givemetwinkly
[link] [comments]

Post a Comment

Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)

Contact Form

Name

Email *

Message *

Games26 © 2015. All Rights Reserved.
Powered By Blogger
Powered by Blogger.