Unlabelled Super Smash Bros - Official r/smashbros Monthly Voted Tier List (July 2017): Voting!

7/25/2017 12:40:00 pm
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Super Smash Bros - Official r/smashbros Monthly Voted Tier List (July 2017): Voting!

Official r/smashbros Monthly Voted Tier List (July 2017): Voting!

Posted: 23 Jul 2017 05:54 PM PDT

Welcome back to our monthly tier list, post-EVO edition! Although, this time around, things may be a bit more about the pre- and post-EVO tournaments that happened this month. While tournaments around the time of EVO usually are pretty stacked, I don't think we've ever seen a major-level tournament happen right before EVO, and a supermajor happen right after! Crazy times, which may lead to some unusual changes this time around...

MIIS WITH CUSTOMS ARE LISTED AS XXXX, MIIS WITHOUT CUSTOMS ARE LISTED AS 1111

ALL MIIS ARE AVERAGE SIZE AND DO NOT HAVE CUSTOM EQUIPMENT

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO VOTE FOR EVERY CHARACTER

NOTABLE TOURNAMENT PLACING UPDATE

So, a few months ago, I got a request to put character results on the poll (next to each character's name), so people who use the results listed in the thread don't have to switch tabs every time they check what a certain character has done that month. However, I didn't want to implement this idea, because not all characters have "notable placings" in a month.

I did still think this was a great idea, so to make it happen, I've changed my method of finding "notable tournament placings." Instead of just briefly looking through results and putting what I think is notable on the thread, I now score each character's strong tournament showings, and the placing with the highest score is used. This is done for EVERY CHARACTER, so you can not only see which characters had a good month, but you can tell who had a less fruitful month as well.

For more specific details on this system, click here!

Tournaments Used:

Bayonetta: 1st at EVO 2017

Bowser: 17th at Umebura 27

Bowser Jr.: 25th at Albion II

Captain Falcon: 17th at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017

Charizard: 49th at Umebura 27 (Not on poll, I missed it while making it. Sorry!)

Cloud: 4th at EVO 2017

Corrin: 7th at Midwest Mayhem 9: Old vs. New

Dark Pit: N/A

Diddy Kong: 2nd at EVO 2017

Donkey Kong: 33rd at EVO 2017

Dr. Mario: N/A

Duck Hunt: 17th at EVO 2017

Falco: 17th at Midwest Mayhem 9: Old vs. New

Fox: 3rd at EVO 2017

Ganondorf: 13th at Albion II

Greninja: 13th at Umebura 27

Ike: 9th at UNLOCKED

Jigglypuff: 17th at GUMS 16

King Dedede: 49th at Umebura 27

Kirby: N/A

Link: 17th at Umebura 27

Little Mac: 17th at 2GGC: ARMS Saga

Lucario: 7th at 2GGC: ARMS Saga

Lucas: 25th at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017

Lucina: 13th at Midwest Mayhem 9: Old vs. New

Luigi: 17th at EVO 2017

Mario: 13th at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017

Marth: 13th at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017

Mega Man: 9th at 2GGC: ARMS Saga

Meta Knight: 25th at Umebura 27

Mewtwo: 13th at EVO 2017

Mr. Game & Watch: N/A

Ness: 13th at EVO 2017

Olimar: 49th at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017

Pac-Man: 17th at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017

Palutena: 33rd at EVO 2017

Peach: 9th at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017

Pikachu: 9th at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017

Pit: 5th at Umebura 27

R.O.B.: 13th at Albion II

Robin: 13th at Midwest Mayhem 9: Old vs. New

Rosalina & Luma: 1st at 2GGC: ARMS Saga

Roy: 25th at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017

Ryu: 5th at Umebura 27

Samus: 9th at Albion II

Sheik: 2nd at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017

Shulk: 7th at Albion II

Sonic: 5th at EVO 2017

Toon Link: 49th at EVO 2017

Villager: 17th at EVO 2017

Wario: 1st at Albion II

Wii Fit Trainer: 25th at GUMS 16

Yoshi: 13th at Midwest Mayhem 9: Old vs. New

Zelda: 17th at Umebura 27

Zero Suit Samus: 4th at Dreamhack Atlanta 2017

HOW TO VOTE

There are a total of 5 general tiers; S Tier, A Tier (divided into A+, A, and A- tier), B Tier (divided into B+, B, and B- tier), C Tier (divided into C+, C, and C- tier), and D Tier. Based on the description of each tier in the poll, you will vote where you think each character belongs, with S Tiers being the best and D Tiers being the worst. Using my magical, mythical, and totally ballin' powers (aka basic math), I will transmogrify all of the polls together to come up with the month's tier list!

Click here to fill out the poll!

In the comments below, you can look for a certain character's name.

DO NOT USE UPVOTES TO VOTE CHARACTERS UP OR DOWN ON THE LIST!

These act as discussion prompts, allowing people to talk about said characters. They can be used to talk about how good characters are in the meta, how these characters are played, how to play against these characters, and really anything else, as long as it's about the character listed and how they play in Smash 4. Try to keep conversation constructive! No opinions are wrong!

There will also be a section to post your personal tier list, if you'd like to get that one Reddit user pissed off by placing his main a tier lower than he thinks he is /s share your own views on the meta!

submitted by /u/mu_II
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Daily Discussion Thread 07/24/17

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 12:12 AM PDT

Welcome to the Daily Discussion Thread series on /r/smashbros! Inspired by /r/SSBM and /r/hiphopheads's DDTs, you can post here:

  • General questions about Smash

  • General discussion (tentatively allowing for some off-topic discussion)

  • "Light" content that might not have been allowed as its own post (please keep it about Smash)

Other guidelines:

  • Be good to one another.

  • While DDT can be lax, please abide by our general rules. No linking to illegal/pirated stuff, no flaming, game debates, etc.

  • Please keep your meme spam contained to the sticky comment provided below.

If you have any suggestions about future DDTs or anything else subreddit related, please send them our way! Thanks in advance!

Also, if you want to chat with other /r/smashbros users you can do so via our Discord channel.

submitted by /u/AutoModerator
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Hey, it's me the Melee Piano Guy, just wanted to thank you guys for 80K hits on YouTube. I'm taking a break for awhile, so here's the full 5 song playlist. You guys rock!

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 12:14 PM PDT

Trela will attend SCR Saga if the community wants him to!

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 02:28 PM PDT

Please do not ban box controllers

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 02:21 PM PDT

TL;DR AT BOTTOM, WALL OF TEXT AHEAD

EDIT: MANY HAVE BROUGHT UP ANALOG TO DIGITAL CONVERSION AS A PROBLEM. I agree. It is a problem, but only on buttonboxes. Even boxes that have one stick for the control stick and ADC the cstick are fine. You can't SDI or angle anything important with a cstick. When you replace the control stick with digital buttons and tilt modifiers, a variety of issues come into play. For example, ludicrously long ledgedashes and perfect wavedashes, and inhuman SDI. This is an issue solely on buttonboxes. Perfect wavedashes can be mostly fixed by ensuring a realistic max length wavedash angle is implemented, and the perfect angle is disallowed. Max length wavedash angle would have to be determined by a council of top players ensuring that the consistency of buttonboxes sacrifices a fair amount of length from a "risky" wavedash as input on a control stick. Let's face it: past a certain level, nobody misses wavedashes anymore. Being more reliable on something that gets missed once every thousand games doesn't matter. Adding new options does. This is why a perfect wavedash angle modifier is unfair. Making a normalized max wavedash angle is tricky, but very doable. SDI is harder, and a clever buttonbox designer would propose a far better solution than me.

So I've heard (just a rumor, no idea if it's credible) that a new standardized ruleset for tournaments will include a ban on all sticklike controllers, permitting only pads. In my honest opinion, this is a poor, shortsighted decision for the longevity and appeal of our game.

As someone who grew up playing quake mods (primarily Urban Terror), I am not a stranger to technical games. The movement could require crazy precision and speed with your cursor placement, firing timing, and keyboard inputs. Grinding out certain difficult jumps and routes around maps was very time consuming, but it never hurt my hands unless I was a fool and played for 8 hours with no breaks to stretch, and even then unless 4 of those hours were playing on a serious tilt with a death grip on my mouse during every flick, I rarely experienced hand pain.

About 5 years ago, I started watching competitive melee after playing melee for years at friends' houses and brawl on my own Wii. This game is nuts. It has the crazy skill ceiling and tech that my favorite fpses had, but people I know IRL are infinitely more likely to be into it and down to play a few games. So complex, yet so accessible. Deciding I wanted to get more serious about melee, a couple years ago I started practicing and grinding out Marth tech on a dolphin set up on my PC, using a low latency monitor, wii u adapter and gcc's. I wanted to get a good flow to my movement, along with some strong punishes on top tiers, and then transfer my skill into gamecube CRT setups when I felt ready to learn the mental game aspect with better players.

I made it less than 2 hours into my first tech practice session before my joints started to hurt noticeably. I stopped playing and did a few different hand/forearm stretches, and couldn't believe how many easy wrist circles it took to make my right hand's wrist joints stop feeling like they were cracking and grinding from strain. My movement thumb was distinctly sore at the base, and my wavedashing finger (left pointer) was tense enough that I had to put a substantial amount of effort in to simply extend it all the way so it wouldn't rest in a mostly curled position, even while hanging at my side while standing. The pain during play was minor, but soreness persisted the rest of the day and well into the next. It was around this time it really struck me how tiny the gc controller is. Being high in the 99th percentile of human male height, my hands are proportionally large as well. Simply wavedashing, or even keeping a good grip on this controller while clawing for optimal drift retreating aerials, can become painful if I've been playing for too long.

This problem has slowly worsened through my whole time spent with this game since I picked it up to "git gud" as an adult. When I was a kid, the size of the controller felt quite natural, and I didn't see reason to press buttons quickly enough that my hands would get sore. Now, however, as I practice what would be considered "low APM tech" for melee, I get soreness in my fingers and wrist within the first hour. Even playing with casual friends, my hands get sore after an hour or two. Part of my consideration for practicing Marth over Falco was lower APM to save my hands, but I don't think it'd be enough where repeated sessions of extended play with good players won't actually damage my hands. I haven't even bothered trying to learn the higher APM tech in the game. To be honest I don't even want to think about how bad learning clean SHFFL dair/nair>shine spacie shield pressure would feel the next day, when just practicing Marth SHFFLs and wavelands onto platforms can make me need a day or two's break from practicing Melee. I could probably push through the discomfort, but I know it will build on itself and I will either need a longer break when it starts hurting badly, or I will hurt myself.

While I've never tried a box controller for Melee specifically, I have played games that require fast inputs to a PC keyboard and am a very fast typist, and I know for certain that being able to use more fingers for inputs, alongside the different wrist position, and most crucially without having to hold up a controller with teeny tiny handles while flailing my hands away on it, would make high APM tech much more achievable and much less uncomfortable/potentially damaging.

I am not alone in this regard. I assure you all, not only would allowing people to play on box controllers provide greater accessibility to stick FGC players to give melee a chance, it would give accessibility to an entire community of players who experience actual physical pain from the gcc that they can greatly mitigate on a fightstick/mechanical keyboard. Never mind the existing Melee players and fans who have had their passion taken from them by hand injury dealt by optimizing their play on a gcc. Getting to the top shouldn't damage your hands to the point of requiring surgery to fix them.

Though I am absolutely not qualified to talk about the effects box controllers would have on the meta, what I can say is this: the GCC will likely harm the playerbase at some point in the future. Perhaps by poor supply and stratification, as the last purchasable controllers capable of reliable dashback and shield drops are hoarded while the owners of formerly capable controllers watch them break from usage. Perhaps by injury, as top players' hands begin degrading exponentially.

Any degeneracy in play caused by box controllers can likely be mitigated by mandating that they all use a full size analog stick instead of digital buttons and tilt modifiers, or simply disallowing advantageous controller outputs during the design and wiring phase. Create a list of accepted models and a fast, automated computer program distributed to TO's to validate that said model is running unmodified stock firmware, and you're done. Yes, it may be time consuming to ensure fairness between boxes and gccs, but it will be worth it to broaden our playerbase and ensure the health of the scene. What does the pweacous meta mean if nobody is left uninjured to play up to it?

WARNING: TAKE MY OPINIONS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. I love this game, but I am not good. I miss l cancels, I can barely wavedash out of a dashdance, I drop punishes like it's my job, and I play like an autopilot flowchart with ten bubbles on it total. I would not beat anyone who makes it out of pools at a local. Maybe I wouldn't go 0-2 in pools, but I wouldn't know because I've never gone. Me overlooking a crucial point in this post is likely. Please point it out if I have. Constructive discussion and criticism is very appreciated.

TL;DR The GCC is tiny, it hurts lots of peoples' hands, and is an inherent problem due to supply and variance. Fightstick style controllers are a very workable addition to the meta (especially ones with full size analog sticks for the control stick and cstick), and while they may yet have work to do to ensure fairness, broadly banning non-gccs now is a poor precedent to set. Also I'm bad so if I'm overlooking stuff please point it out. Discuss and criticize, but be nice.

submitted by /u/BooleanBacon
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From Shine to You, let's talk about the box controllers

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 05:13 PM PDT

Hello, Shi here again! This time, let's talk a little bit about boxes and why I decided to not allow them in the singles/doubles bracket at Shine.

First off, I would like to say, I like innovation and I appreciate the people taking the time to design such a product. Smash has survived through the years via rigidness, there is a lot that needs to be done to bring something as new as these into the scene. Education is a good first step.

Although there's a lot that's been discussed on the product itself. None of the makers have discussed an integration strategy, and that's where I hesitate in making official legalization. We've allowed it at locals and regional events to let them foster and generate a feedback loop. In the mean time I've made a request to the Smashbox team to provide me a deck containing the following topics:

  1. Intro to the smashbox
    • What is the box
    • What is digital input, and how do the analog modifiers work
  2. Pros/Cons
  3. Risks Introduced
  4. Risk Mitigation Strategy
  5. Potential Scenarios and how to address them
  6. How do we prevent further modding via embedded macros (Currently unsolved for GCN controllers, but it's not wise to introduce another opening without addressing the first)

Although legalizing it in the main bracket(singles,doubles) for Shine 2017 is a bit late in the game as reg is about to close. I am open to the idea of a "Boxdown", where we would play a 3v3 crew format, single elim.

I've asked the Smashbox team to help make this happen and also asked they chip in a small prize pool ($500 to the winning crew)

And to keep consistent with my stances on education, I'd be more than happy to accommodate stream time to this. I'll also want the various box creators to make commentary on stream, this will serve as a good chance to talk to the audience in a civil manner.

As my follower count grows, I'll be shifting more of my views posts from Facebook to Twitter. So be sure to follow me there: https://twitter.com/shdeng

P.S. Register for Shine! https://smash.gg/tournament/shine-2017/register

submitted by /u/BigBlueES
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Swag New Falcon Tech (found by u/Setchi) Called The I Sh*t My Pants Walk

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 05:57 PM PDT

https://gfycat.com/LikelyCreativeBilby This tech was too hard to consistantly recreate, so i had to use TAS inputs. Shout outs to u/Setchi for being able to do this mid match.

submitted by /u/fuzzie30
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Top 10 Most Unexpected Character Picks by Top Players - Super Smash Bros Melee - GRsmash

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 06:57 PM PDT

2GGC SCR Saga Announced: August 19-20 feat. SFV, Tekken 7, Injustice 2, and Guilty Gear Xrd

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 12:25 PM PDT

[ESAM] ONE FRAME VICTORY FOR NAIRO: Small VOD review

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 05:16 PM PDT

Thoughts on Hungrybox EVO Mid-set Coaching Drama-Armada

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 01:00 PM PDT

Get ready for the next battle at 2GGC: SCR Saga on Aug 19th - 20th at Esports Arena with $5,000 Pot Bonus!

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 01:03 PM PDT

Hey everyone,

We're happy to announce that we will be working with Level Up Series' Alex Valle and Jimmy Nguyen to bring you 2GGC: SCR Saga! Not only that, Esports Arena will be providing $5,000 in pot bonus

For those of you who don't know what SCR is, it's a major event that happens every year in SoCal for the FGC community. Level Up is also the organization we work with for WNF and previous SCR.

Which means that for the first time, 2GGC will have the following events along with Smash 4 Singles ($3,000 Pot Bonus) & doubles:

  • Street Fighter V ($1,000 Pot Bonus)
  • Tekken 7 ($1,000 Pot Bonus)
  • Guilty Gear Xrd Rev 2
  • Injustice 2

You might also ask why SCR? Fun fact, the very first event Jmex and I was asked to run Smash 4 was SCR Prelude in 2015. Valle and Jimmy gave us an opportunity and we took it and well ... here we are.

Also, due to the new venue of SCR 2017, there won't be able to have smash there. So, this is the solution to still have Smash at an SCR event.

SCR also had three Smash 4 events so far, won by Slayerz (2015), Larry Lurr (2015) and ANTi (2016). That means they have to win SCR Saga to break the curse.

We're very excited to collaborate with Level Up for this. Can't wait to do some Smash 4 X FGC fun events!

SCR Saga is taking place on August 19th - 20th at Esports Arena

Sign up now at https://smash.gg/scrsaga

P.S. if you want to see a certain Ryu at SCR Saga, be sure to let us know!

submitted by /u/champtang
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mang0 Reviews DJ Nintendo's Dreamhack Commentary

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 06:32 PM PDT

Wobbling For Charity: A St. Judes Charity Stream

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 08:56 AM PDT

Hello! My name is Sox, an Ice Climber main from Seattle.

In wake of all the rigorous & infamous controversy surrounding wobbling, I've decided to start a week-long charity stream called "Wobbling For Charity" for a good cause: St. Judes Children's Hospital. They are currently one of the leading pediatric foundations in our country and thrive off building cures for children with cancer, as well as other life-changing diseases.

All the heated arguments and profane language towards this game mechanic had me thinking about all the negativity surrounding today's gaming community. Raising and supporting a phenomenal charity like St. Jude's reminds us that feckless things like a silly infinite don't compare to many of the real world problems that exist today.

The current goal is to raise $250. 100% of the proceeds go directly to St. Judes, and payments are safely provided by Paypal. Any and all amounts are welcomed! Even if you cannot provide a numerical amount, sending good wishes would be much appreciated!

Thank you all for reading!! I'm eternally grateful for the awesome Smash communnity. Keep smashing, friends! :D

https://tiltify.com/events/wobbling-for-charity

[UPDATE] Stream is now up! Feel free to stop by and say helloooo!

[ANOTHER UPDATE] As a result of the immense success I've gotten so far and the suggestion make by Reddit user Shotokanguy, I have raised the donation goal! Thank you ALL SO MUCH for the support!!!

STREAM will continue WEDNESDAY10:30AM PST. Feel free to donate any amount even though the stream's offline. Much love to all of you!

submitted by /u/wavedashintokys
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Hungrybox Fighting: EVO 2017

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 04:57 PM PDT

The Last Time Hungrybox Lost to Each Character

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 01:49 PM PDT

note: I only went to like mid 2014 because at that point you have to go through VODs and I'm lazy. Also most of the high tiers were covered by that point

Fox: Plup, DreamHack Atlanta 2017, July 2017

Falco: Westballz, MVG Sandstorm, April 2015

Marth: PewPewU, Apex 2015, January 2015

Sheik: Mew2King (also used Fox), Tampa Never Sleeps 7, February 2017

  • Plup, CFL Smackdown 104, November 2016

Jigglypuff: Mango, Pound 4, January 2010

Peach: Armada (also used Young Link), CEO 2014, June 2014

  • note: Hbox played Fox for this set

Ice Climbers: Nintendude (unsure, sandbagging, Smash the Record ruleset), Smash the Record 2016, November 2016

  • Wobbles, EVO 2013, July 2013

Captain Falcon: Wizzrobe, Smash Rivalries, April 2017

Pikachu: Axe, MLG Anaheim 2014, June 2014

Young Link: Armada, CEO 2014, June 2014

  • note: Hbox played Fox for this set

Everyone else....: none that I can find

Others: Armada (SSBM), ZeRo (SSB4)

submitted by /u/kenniky
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Get on my Level 2017: Wii U Top 16 seedings

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 06:43 PM PDT

Top player-wise, we're a far cry from last year. Still, with 447 entrants, you know for sure there will be a lot of sleepers!

1: NRG | Nairo ZSS (not actually going idk)

2: MSF | Larry Lurr Fox

3: Marss ZSS

4: YP | Fatality Captain Falcon

5: IMT | ANTi Mario Cloud ZSS

6: EG | Zinoto Diddy Kong

7: Mistake Bayonetta ZSS

8: EMG | Blacktwins Cloud Mario

9: BOT | SuperGirlKels Sonic

10: FOX MVG | Mew2King Cloud

11: San Ike

12: Deathorse Mewtwo

13: Angel Cortes Diddy Kong

14: Venom Ryu

15: Yoh Sheik Diddy Kong

16: Raziek Cloud Robin

submitted by /u/lemmay
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DI Traps (and how to avoid them)

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 12:19 PM PDT

Any updates on the new rulesets?

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 08:42 AM PDT

Leffen and Ice On EVO

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 10:15 AM PDT

Shine 2017 | Venue Increases Tonight @ 11:59pm Pacific! Mango, Mew2king, Leffen, Salem, ZeRo, Anti, Ally, Komorikiri & more confirmed! Save $10 on Genesis 5 venue when registering for Shine 2017 and vice-versa. ||| smash.gg/Shine

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 04:04 PM PDT

Hey everyone! We're less than 12 hours away from the final Shine 2017 registration increase. Make sure you register before 11:59pm PDT! We're getting close to passing our registration numbers on smash.gg from last year. Thanks for all the support, it means a lot to us and allows us to continue providing quality events for the community.

To save money on Shine registration, sign up for Genesis 5 and vice versa. We have a promotion going until the Shine 2017 registration increases tonight that gives $10 off venue to whichever event you have not signed up for. This is automatically applied in registration for one once you've signed up for the other.

Our final registration date is August 6th. If you're not able to sign up today you aren't out of luck yet!

 

For the uninitiated, Shine is a tournament series in Boston, MA organized by Big Blue Esports. The event debuted last year with over 2000 attendees and to resoundingly positive feedback from attendees across the board. Shine takes place in the Seaport World Trade Center, a spacious and well-ventilated 100,000+ square foot venue (although we don't have to use all of that space yet!). We are right on Boston harbor and surrounded by convenience stores, bars, and sit-down restaurants. And, of course, Dunkin Donuts is right next door. If you are flying in, getting to Shine is a cinch! There's a 10 minute free bus ride that picks up at the airport at multiple intervals per hour that brings you directly to the venue.

Event Info

Schedule - All Doubles events will take place of Friday, while Singles begin on Saturday. The final schedule will not deviate too much from this but keep in mind this is open to change.

Facebook Event

@Shine_Series

Attendee List

Streamers: VGBootCamp, Unrivaled Tournaments, Great Value Smash, Big Blue Esports

Commentary Applications

Volunteer Applications

 

At Shine our biggest priority is the player experience. Typically once you've lost in a tournament you no longer have anything to do but play casuals or money matches, or spectate the remainder of the tournament. We provide amateur brackets, an open Crew Battle bracket, matchmaking ladders, and a concept unique to Shine called "Lane Shift."

Lane Shift is a side event consisting of 16-player fill-and-go brackets. Last year Shine ran 69 of these brackets across the weekend. This means that people can sign up as soon as they're out of the tournament (spectators can sign up too) and compete in a 16-player bracket. Winning the bracket nets a prize, and getting Top 3 advances you to the next Lane. There are three Lanes all in all. People who are spectators or lose in Round 1 pools start in Lane 1. People who lose in Round 2 pools or Top 128 bracket start in Lane 2. You can only access Lane 3 if you get 1st/2nd/3rd in a Lane 2 bracket.

Once you've advanced from a Lane there's no going back. You'll find your competition increase as you advance. There are no limits to how many times you can enter a Lane bracket. You can get knocked out of a bracket, immediately register yourself in another one, and then once 16 people are in (and the setups are available) you'll be playing again.

Rules

There's a few quick rules related notes I want to mention about Shine 2017:

  • Boxx controllers and any non-case mods (Ex. Shield drop notches = case mod) are not allowed. This applies only to our main singles and doubles tournaments. Modded controllers may be used in lane shift and other side events.

  • Mid-set coaching is not allowed in any game

  • Anyone mentioning support of the Yankees will be promptly removed from the venue

  • Players will not be floated through pools

I understand that some of the above rules may be controversial or desired to have explanations behind them. I ask for your patience as there will be a post made this week from community leaders regarding these decisions.

Please feel free to reach out via email to Shine@bigbluees.com

Thank you for reading. I hope you enjoy Shine as an at-home spectator or at-event attendee.

submitted by /u/MattDotZeb
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Papapaint and Last Stock Legends Update

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 10:47 AM PDT

Bat Within Misconception

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 10:25 AM PDT

With Bayo recently showing herself as an incredibly strong character (well moreso Salem showing himself as an incredible player), people have begun to complain more and more about bat within. This is a mechanic which is clearly not understood very well by the vocal reddit community who seem to think about it as a "frame one airdodge".

BS within is active from frames 1-4. Meaning that the moment bayo presses airdodge, she can trigger bat within assuming she isnt in lag or hitstun (or whatever other state that stops you from doing stuff). This obviously allows her to escape frame tight combos which other characters cannot due to her essentially being able to start her airdodge one frame early.

However this does not mean that every bat within has granted bayonetta an escape opportunity that other characters lack. Quite a few characters in smash 4 have a frame 2 airdodge, this means that Bayonetta will often prefer to just have a regular airdodge due to the fact that bat within causes her to take half damage from the attack she dodges. I repeat, if an attack hits you on the second bat within frame, Bayonetta has literally been put at a disadvantage from having bat within (Unless you count the whole turning into bats and moving as an advantage but that can go either way as it can be played around in some situations by an opponent who reacts to it/expects it. Realistically its a good thing but I've seen it punished). This is obviously also true on frames 3 and 4 where Bayonetta would REALLY just prefer to have a regular air dodge. If we assume that attacks in a match are evenly distributed throughout the frames of bat within (a horrible assumption but lets roll with it), it means that 75% of the time, Bayonetta is taking damage that she wouldnt take if she had a frame 2 airdodge. And 50% of the time if she had a frame 3 airdodge. In addition, to compensate for bat within, her airdodge FAF is frame 37. I dont know all the frame data stuff here but most non-heavy characters have an FAF around frame 30-32, with heavies having frame 35 from what I can see.

Anyway I just wanted to clear up the misconception that bat within is a mechanic which is always saving Bayo players from dying just because they picked the character. I think her airdodge overall has fairly even positives and negatives (slightly leaning towards positives).

TL;DR: Bayonetta's airdodge sucks, bat within makes it better, but it still has its own disadvantages over a regular airdodge. It really cant be considered a frame 1 airdodge, calling it that is to heavily overrate the impact of bat within. So lets go back to complaining about witch time killing from countering a jab at 0

P.S. With regards to Void vs Salem, Set 1 Game 3, I'm reasonably sure Void wouldve been able to frame trap Salem and end it with a fair assuming bat within didnt trigger (though anyone feel free to correct me on that). Take that as you will, perhaps it was one of the situations where bat within was game saving. VoiD BibleThump.

P.S.S. The bat within frames that come after witch time dont usually come into play unless you mistime your punish. Adapt.

Edit: Feel free to come at me with any corrections, I may be wrong in a few places

submitted by /u/AeonDota
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The Reads With Scar & Toph Episodes #14 Ft. Phil

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 08:46 AM PDT

GOML is in 4 days! Here's a look back at n0ne's legendary run at last years event

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 12:59 PM PDT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozSDx2Nl6XE

Still get goosebumps thinking about this moment, absolutely insane

submitted by /u/nicolabcy
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Lythero (Ganon) vs DyungSloth (Bowser, Ike) EVO 2017 with minor edits by Lythero

Posted: 24 Jul 2017 06:34 AM PDT

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