True Dota 2 - So what did we learn from Kiev about the meta?


So what did we learn from Kiev about the meta?

Posted: 01 May 2017 12:09 PM PDT

What heroes turned out to be powerful, what item builds developed, what made this tournaments meta different than DACs?

submitted by /u/DarthyTMC
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Is F1 to select your hero uncommon?

Posted: 01 May 2017 08:23 AM PDT

Have been meaning to post this for awhile but at the recent DAC Merlini pointed out that a perticular player; I believe one of the chinese players in the solo mid tournament was using 'F1' to select their hero, he seemed abit shocked and that this was uncommon?

I have been using this to select my hero ever since playing and was wondering what other people use and is it an uncommon thing?

submitted by /u/KevinLevrone1329
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Why isn't Veno Aghs bought at all in the pro scene?

Posted: 01 May 2017 04:23 AM PDT

It sounds so great since it gives 60 second cd and almost 50% increase in damage.

submitted by /u/17heym
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How to pick when my team first pick a melee weak laning carry?

Posted: 01 May 2017 12:28 PM PDT

Such as first picking spe/am, the enemy then pick axe/timber/broom. What support should I pick? Do I have to ask my team trilane in safelane? Even aggro-dragging to last hit is still pretty hard since my carry is too weak and need consistantly ship regen items.

submitted by /u/ICEunicorn
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Why should I start building treads?

Posted: 01 May 2017 10:27 AM PDT

I honestly can't remember the last time I built Power Threads in a game.

It's hard to justify the extra 950 gold to upgrade brown boots into a dead-end item when this gold can be invested into starting another item.

Also, with BoTs being so incredibly strong with the TP nerf and split push buff, spending 950 gold on treads means you'll need to sell them later, cutting another 200 gold of yours (because now you have to sell the brown boots you had bought as well)

It just doesn't seem worth it, ever.

submitted by /u/heavyfuel
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What heroes can counter anti-mage on a trilane?

Posted: 01 May 2017 01:24 PM PDT

With supports (or even one good lane support) anti mage can get some oncontested farm easily, and then after he gets some levels it's basically impossible to contest his farm unless you are way ahead of him. Trading hits as any melee hero is impossible as he burns through all your mana, and whatever you do he can just blink away safely. Is there any offlaner that can counter him?

submitted by /u/ffsavi
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Sange and Yasha

Posted: 01 May 2017 03:19 PM PDT

The popular Chinese Sven build is to go MoM/SnY, which Burning did in the elimination game before going Blink afterward. Ramzes also went SnY in Game 5 v. OG.

What is the rationale for purchasing SnY? For Troll and Bloodseeker, the most common purchasers, I understand that it provides solid stats, an alright slow and movespeed increases for already fast heroes.

For both Sven and Alchemist, though, aren't there better, more cost efficient options? In Burning's match vs. VP, for example, he had to run into fights and frequently was hit by spells before he even arrived to follow up on IG's initiation. He also had to buy blink anyway, so why not rush blink earlier to capitalize on the power spike from Sven's Ult? With Blink/MoM alone, your ability to instantaneously follow up on a stun will augment your DPS moreso than a Sven who has to run in, wouldn't it? That additional gold you save also lets you get into your next progression quicker. If the argument is to increase attack speed/farm faster, isn't this equally achievable with Blink/Echo, which is only slightly more expensive, especially when Blink is taken after SnY anyway? Furthermore, do you even need that much of an aspd increase when MoM already provides a massive aspd spike (and Echo helps as well)? Are there simply not enough other alternatives that give needed agility?

For Alchemist, I figure the rationale was that Ramzes wanted to augment his MS increase from Alch ult and have stats to trade with Troll. However, VP's initiation in that game was already strong and Ramzes never had trouble gap closing. In a game where Alch struggled to crowd control Ana, what is the rationale for choosing SnY over Abyssal, for example, keeping Solar Crest, going Blademail/Shivas, etc.? Even a Skadi provides stats and an important aspd slow.

Would appreciate any thoughts. I'm not trying to say Burning/Ramzes shouldn't have bought the item at all. I'm just struggling to understand the logic that went into these choices, as in both instances while player speccing them, I did not notice any powerful benefits from SnY. Thanks for any insight!

submitted by /u/divesting
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Getting back into Dota, what can I expect?

Posted: 01 May 2017 10:41 AM PDT

Yesterday, after being thrilled for more or less 12 hours or so (it was a long day of Dota and shenanigans), I feel like playing more or at least being more aware of the game since I stopped playing for a while. What can I expect? Which heroes should I be on the lookout for? The only thing I really know about is that games can go for very long and that brings me 6.82/.83 flashbacks. Especially with Troll being popular shudder

submitted by /u/Bajdzuka
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Monkey King support! Give me your thoughts / builds / strategies

Posted: 01 May 2017 02:20 PM PDT

As we all saw at Kiev MK was one of the most pickbanned heroes and almost always played as a 4th support role — how are we feeling about this? What are your go-to start items? What makes him a great support?

My own thoughts are the vision he provides throughout the game just by jumping on trees, at a high level you can escape really well with him (if you're not good with your mechanics you'll probably die as you'll be a support MK with no health), he's got an instant potent stun and a very ult.

I've seen shadow blade recommended, in what situation would you buy that on him? The only thing I can think of is to be invisible during in your ultimate or getting in a surprise stun with his Q.

I just won a game playing him as a support but it was definitely due to the opposing team tilting rather than me — there was one teamfight where I contributed a lot in terms of hero damage but otherwise it felt very different and I think a lot of teamwork would be required to make the most of him in a support role.

submitted by /u/SeMeFue
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What makes OG so good?

Posted: 30 Apr 2017 03:55 PM PDT

Serious question. They obviously have world class players in every position, but by itself that usually isn't enough.

Based on my humble opinion, they don't seem to ever lose draft-wise, but I haven't seen them have heavy draft wins either. In some cases they pick incredibly greedily and pull it off. Is that really a draft win or just better execution?

From my view their strength lies in their midgame and late game decision making and team fight coordination. But it's hard for me to go deeper. Any thoughts or analysis of OG?

submitted by /u/Balthor5000
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Discussion: Thoughts on What's Coming with the Next Patch

Posted: 01 May 2017 08:07 AM PDT

With the Kiev Major over and TI7 just around the corner, it is logical to expect a balance patch right before the biggest DoTA tournament of the year. What would you guys expect/like to see in 7.06 (I assume that Icefrog will be calling it 7.06 and not 7.05a or something else) in terms of changes, additions, and buffs/nerfs?

submitted by /u/Rokadur
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Has anyone analyzed Kiev major Final OG vs VP game 5?

Posted: 01 May 2017 02:35 AM PDT

What I noticed in the 39th min fight are,

  1. Ana lost lane to OD, so he jungles (buys 4/5 health potion, 1/2 clarity and a shrine use). He wasn't ganked a single time in this period. Switches to lane when creeps are under his tower. still 1k difference in networth. At level 5 he farms ancient (1-3-1 skill build), this is when his networth starts to rise. Vlads at 15mins.

  2. The fight at 39th min where the kill score was 5-22, made OG comeback to the game. Even the kill score has big difference in the number, Ana was 2nd and Notail was 4th in networth. Ana had BKB, Butterfly and SnY with a score of 0/3/3. For me it was Alchemist's mistake for VP losing that fight. Because he was slightly far away from his team. OG knew OD tp'd out, so they decided to take fight and other 4 in VP was retreating. But Alchemist's path to retreat made it easy for OG to kill him quickly. And I think VP wasn't expecting this fight from OG because they had no vision (there was no obs but they could see Ana and timber coming to them through dire creeps) and LC's reaction when Alchemist got caught is bad I think. Because Alchemist used BKB, both LC and OD couldn't W him. Alchemist gets bashed to death and he didn't buyback.

  3. OD used his ulti while Troll's bkb is still active which will be weared off in like a second or two. Maybe if OD have waited 2 second before using his ulti, it might have changed the outcome of the fight. At the end he banished himself while his Dagger was in 2/3 second CD, but didn't dagger out after the banish duration ends (he couldn't because Timber correctly timed his Chakram to disable his Dagger).

  4. Enchantress couldn't do mush in this fight. She had no creeps alive, and she auto attacked troll with her ulti, but troll had Butterfly so her attacks didn't land. and then I think she had no idea what to do (because she ran here and there). Gets stunned by Centaur and killed by Timber.

  5. LC used Duel at the very last, to save OD by Dueling Troll, and she died because she Dueled Troll when Alchemist and Ench died and OD banished himself. Warlock's golem was AFK while all this was happening. LC used her BKB to purge Tree's ulti after 2/3 seconds, prior to that she lost 800HP to Timber.

For me, VP didn't expect a fight from OG (LC and Ench's reaction, Warlock forgot his Golem was alive, Alchemist didn't buyback in time to help his team and OD's panic ulti which didn't hit Troll).I think It was VP's mistakes which helped OG to win the fight.

What are your thoughts on this fight alone? Because this is where it changed the game.

submitted by /u/str_d2
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I don't understand GPM talents

Posted: 01 May 2017 04:43 AM PDT

So while i was watching the group stage of the Kiev major i noticed that pros always go with the GPM talents over the other, for example, in every disruptor game i saw, they took +60GPM over +100 cast range, imo it seems like a longer cast range seems better than an extra 3-4 last hits a minute, can someone please explain why they are taking this talent?

submitted by /u/Notagamergirl111
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Does Solar Crest need a nerf?

Posted: 01 May 2017 11:26 AM PDT

Solar Crest was the star item of the Kiev Major. It's basically as core on every team as Mek was during the TI4 era. I think it's greatest utility is using defensively on your cores, especially as they try to break highground. But it's good offensively and for taking Roshan as well.

The item was bought 11 times in the Grand Finals of the Kiev Major. OG actually had two on their team in the final game on both supports. And Ramzes built one on his Alchemist as his first item (he later sold it...after which the game went south for VP). VP.Solo was building towards one later in the game but didn't finish it. He get a Medallion, but it looks like he sold it to finish his Refresher. So it could have been 12 Crests in a 5 game series if Solo finished his!

I've been building the item regularly since it was buffed up to 12 armor. I absolutely think it is core for every team in every game. And to be honest, I don't really have a problem with this. But maybe other people disagree with that? Should Crest be as mandatory as it is right now? Would you nerf it, or do other support items need to be buffed up to be more competitive?

submitted by /u/SerFluffywuffles
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Veno ulti question

Posted: 30 Apr 2017 03:49 PM PDT

"Despite the nova having a width, units between the ring and Venomancer still get hit, even when not within 255 width of the nova ring (such as blinking into the area some time after the spell is cast)."

Does that mean it works like Shiva's? Where you can cast it, then blink your ulti onto people within its duration of the cast animation ?

submitted by /u/cli337
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A question about Rubick's level 20 talent

Posted: 01 May 2017 02:34 AM PDT

I've played 150 games of Rubick and he is by far my favourite hero, I mainly pick him in pubs and even with a 53% win rate I usually find myself making an impact on the game.

Regardless, my question is is there ever a choice to pick the 8% spell amplification over the +75 cast range?

I never see it as an opportune pick put perhaps I've not been in the right situation or have been reading it wrong. My choice of picking the increased cast range is mainly attributed towards having a safer route in stealing spells (however minimal it may appear), as well as increasing the range of all my spells and items (blink and force staff come to mind).

Also since I'm asking, my talent choices mainly go to +60 dmg (instead of 60gpm), +150hp (instead of +15int) and +20% cdr (instead of +400 telekinesis drop range).

submitted by /u/samthenomad
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movement speed talents with sange and yasha?

Posted: 01 May 2017 03:56 AM PDT

When you go sange and yasha on heroes like lifestealer or sven, should you pick up the movement speed talents since it amplifies your current speed by more than usual (same with manta but the manta speed bonus is a lot less than sange and yasha)

submitted by /u/DeathOnion
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How would you make high ground easier to break?

Posted: 30 Apr 2017 03:59 PM PDT

After looking at the prediction thread for the next patch, the consensus with this patch seems to be that high ground is too difficult to approach and take. So I want to use this thread for people to come up with creative ways of trying to improve this. Patches are known to not directly revert changes, so try to keep suggestions away from removing things that will likely remain in the game like shrines.

submitted by /u/fibittydoo
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Invoker hotkeys

Posted: 01 May 2017 07:07 AM PDT

So I started playing invoker and even though I play with qwer with all the heroes, I can't seem to get used to the invoker combos this way. How do you guys deal with the spells changing hotkeys every time you invoke. Could it be better to stick with legacy and change my item hotkeys for invoker games?

submitted by /u/madoshix3
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Is it me or does pub games are super passive recently

Posted: 30 Apr 2017 04:58 PM PDT

Of all my years playing dota, I don't think I've played hour long matches nearly as often as recently. It almost feels like every other game is just another ultra late buyback fest. What's going on?

submitted by /u/Monkeyuphigh
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Help to pull off the Ember veil combo

Posted: 30 Apr 2017 05:01 PM PDT

Hi guys, I played my first magic ember game recently and love it. After going through my replay, I noticed I missed the veil combo quite a lot. I know you should be able to cast items while in remnant form or while being in slight of fist but I'm really having a very hard time pulling it off reliably, the WORST is that I'm not able to identify what I'm doing wrong, please take a look at this short video, the combo does 97x damage if it works correctly and 77x if it doesn't. Thanks! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4723GQy9HTY

submitted by /u/marrrrrs
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What makes a good laner?

Posted: 30 Apr 2017 04:13 PM PDT

loads of people have been talking about how OG.ana is a good player but he isn't as good of a laner as the other players in the pro scene right now. What exactly makes someone a good laner (specifically mid in this case)? is it all about CS, map awareness, positioning, creep equilibrium, itemization, or a mix of everything? Seems like CS is the most important thing and everything else just plays into that, but what is it that puts these players above all else including ana? maybe it has to do with just how comfortable these players are on the heroes they're playing because they've played them 100s or 1000s of times. or maybe it's just something entirely different that puts them on a whole different level idk.

submitted by /u/UnderlordJungler
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