Unlabelled Destiny 2 When someone tells you you can't raid with them if you don't have a sins of the past and a raid class item.

4/05/2018 12:35:00 am
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Destiny 2 When someone tells you you can't raid with them if you don't have a sins of the past and a raid class item.

When someone tells you you can't raid with them if you don't have a sins of the past and a raid class item.

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 01:35 AM PDT

Here’s an old D1 video of my friend dabbing to dodge cabal rockets. (Sorry for the camera quality, this was taken years ago)

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 11:37 AM PDT

Noticed this when I was updating

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 06:19 AM PDT

Everyone on r/DTG

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 06:46 AM PDT

I like Origin Story

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 06:20 AM PDT

Would make for some explosive gameplay!

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 12:42 PM PDT

On outrage (part 3) - A sense of loss, emotional baggage, getting personal, and lessons from the world of Warhammer

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 09:59 AM PDT

Suggested Reading Materials:

Article Title Discussion Link 1 Discussion Link 2 Discussion Link 3
Outrage Series (Main) - "How Outrage and Echo Chambers Shape our Interactions" On r/games On /r/truegaming
Outrage Series (Part 1) - "Tempering Outrage and Finding a Balanced Viewpoint" On r/destiny2 On r/lowsodiumdestiny
Outrage Series (Part 2) - "On Flip-flopping and Inconsistency in our Needs/Wants" On r/destiny2 On r/lowsodiumdestiny On Bungie.net forums
Outrage Series (Supplemental) - "On Getting to Know the People Who Say Their Opinions, and Why They Say Them" On r/destiny2 On r/lowsodiumdestiny
"Random Musings" Sample Topics "On Sherpas feeling insulted and their outrage getting to the front-page of r/all" "On the 0.04% Buff and the initial community outrage, only to find out that it wasn't a big deal as people made it out to be" "On suggesting for gamers to be able to discuss amicably like level-headed folks"
On Outrage's Effects on a Community / "Us versus Them" Mentality "New players being depressed due to their enjoyment of a game that people dislike" "On how passion becomes so misguided that you end up antagonizing fellow gamers who also want the game to improve" "On seeing if people who clamored for changes will be happy about it, or if they'll want something else'
A Comprehensive Look at Eververse - It's Effects on the Game, the Community, and Solutions Part One Part Two Part Three
Counterpoint: "TTK won't Solve the Game's Problems Instantly, a Psychological Look" On r/destiny2 On r/lowsodiumdestiny
On Communication What Bungie fails to do and needs to focus on
On Satire 1 - A Funny Way of Looking at Outrage "Passionate Guardian Walks into a Bar" "Bob the Guardian Then-And-Now"
On Satire 2 - The Front-Page "Flow" "The Salt Phase" Community Flowchart "Strategy Guide on One-Phasing the Front-Page Raid Encounter"
How Easy People Are Manipulated When Outraged "A Fake Exploit Manipulates an Entire Subreddit with Angry Gamers; and Video Game bloggers report the Fake Exploit as Fact" "On how people who are not playing are outraged by something (Lost Sector Throttle), whereas those who were playing had little to no issues/did not see what the big deal was"
Miscellaneous On why Game Developers are not Candid due to Toxic Gaming Communities Twitter Thread on Game Devs vs. Toxicity On how to provide Constructive Criticism

Side Note: "Oh wow! That's a lot!"

As you can see, I've been fairly consistent in the past few years of having an 'anti-outrage' stance - NOT because I want people to be less vocal, or less critical.... but because I prefer that people are able to discuss on more level-headed and rational terms, as opposed to being highly emotional (or in some ways, favoring 'knee-jerk reactions').

There's a way to provide criticism without being the angriest or loudest person in the room, and that leads to clear and concise feedback/communication as well.

On to the show, and please, have some coffee, and hopefully you don't fall asleep. This is going to be an 'article', not a mere 'post'.

About Me:

I'm only 35, married, with a kid, stable and fun career (basically, an adult)... so when it comes to discussing video games, my perspective tends to be quite different. I do feel old sometimes (like an old soul old dork, or maybe because having a kid automatically makes one feel old, heh).

I've also worked/studied before as a (checklist time):

  • community manager/game master/moderator/tester for indie/local games in my country
  • writer/contributor for various magazines and websites in the mid-2000's
  • working-student almost two-decades ago in a call-center
  • peer counselor when I was a student
  • Psychology graduate; did not practice in the medical field but went to human resources
  • HR officer, specializing in workforce empowerment, analytics/research, and conflict resolution
  • Communications specialist, and social services officer in the government
  • Now I'm a happy dad who just writes stuff from time to time (hobbies/travel, technical writing, business plans, employee relations, etc.) , while doing some online teaching, and while managing a small business

Even in a subject as simple as video games, my perspective and expression will be different from others because it's based on my accumulated life experience, and my principles in life.

Some people find it 'self-righteous', 'overbearing' or 'on a high horse' - and some of you reading now might already feel that way after that checklist I just did.

To me, it's just that I prefer to be 'different' - maybe because 'being outraged' was part of my life when I was younger, and I've since outgrown that decades ago; or maybe because I have a different perspective nowadays.

My life experience has been (literally and figuratively) - 'dealing and managing the outrage that people feel' - so obviously, I know how to adapt and manage it.

We've discussed before how outrage affects people

From creating echo chambers, an 'us-versus-them' mentality, to our inherent negative bias toying with our emotions, to how much we are affected by these certain emotional triggers. We've discussed how our opinions flip-flopped based on the latest trend or buzz-word, in the hopes that these will assuage our outrage. We've discussed how certain events outside of the game we play (ie. 'EA/SWBF2 becoming a major hot topic in gaming') have spilled over into debates in other games.

Now let's discuss a comparison between two franchises.

If you've been playing Destiny, you'll probably see a few of these comments:

"The game is ruined. The developers ruined this franchise!"

"We have invested so much time and effort into the previous game only to see it turn into nothing."

"This new game has lost its soul, its identity; it does not feel like the first one."

"The creators made this game so simple, so streamlined. I don't like it."

"They wanted to earn some extra money! That's why they did this!"

"They wanted to attract a new audience! They wanted new people playing this game!"

And you'll probably see something so very commonly said:

"The people who enjoy this new game, or the people who are not as angry as us about it, are part of the problem. They are preventing this game from being great. They are happy with the mediocrity of this game at all. They are blind sheep! They are fanboys and shills!"

"We are the true/real/passionate fans of this game. We deserve to be listened to because we have been here since the start. We have poured so many hours into the previous game. We are the ones who should be heard - not 'them'."

These sentiments are carried over in multiple topics, paraphrased, edited, twisted and tweaked just ever-so-slightly but the core ideas remain: "We (the loyal/passionate fans) are being rejected in favor of these other people. It's an us-versus-them scenario."

The Lesson of the Warhammer World:

"The game is ruined. The developers ruined this franchise!"

"We have invested so much time and effort into the previous game only to see it turn into nothing."

"This new game has lost its soul, its identity; it does not feel like the first one."

"The creators made this game so simple, so streamlined. I don't like it."

"This feels like a watered-down version of the previous one!"

"They wanted to earn some extra money! That's why they did this!"

"They wanted to attract a new audience! They wanted new people playing this game!"

This is practically what everyone playing Warhammer Fantasy Battles (WHFB) said a couple of years ago.

This was a franchise that had its world... literally and figuratively... end. Because of man-sized rats (BLAM! HERESY!) mutated-Beastmen, rampaging champions of Chaos, and a man-child of a vampire count - and you can read more about it on my three-part Vermintide/End Times lore guide over here - part 1; part 2; and part 3.

Warhammer Fantasy Battles had been around for 30+ years, and it unceremoniously ended after its creators, Games Workshop, felt that the rules need to be streamlined, that it needed to attract a new audience, and that it had to make money off licensing and trademarking certain factions/races.

  • The result was Age of Sigmar - which many WHFB veterans initially felt was 'watered-down' or 'simplified', or that it 'lost its soul and identity'.
  • They were outraged that all the years they had with the previous franchise went into this 'new thing' that felt 'different'.
  • And yet surprisingly, those criticisms were mostly directed at Games Workshop, and rarely did it ever turn into infighting within the fanbase.

For reference - watch these two discussions I created a few days ago:

Article Title Discussion Link 1 Discussion Link 2
"When Warhammer Fantasy Battles ended, what were your thoughts on AOS and its players?" On r/warhammer On r/ageofsigmar

Watch some responses in those threads:

(1)

I don't play outside my circle and don't play at the local game shop. So I didn't experience my local town's response to AoS. I do think that everyone views new players as a positive thing. Warhammer players generally love to introduce people to the Hobby.

(2)

The old world was rich, and I truly did enjoy it as a setting, but often I wonder if the only reason I liked it was because it was basically Middle Earth with the names all changed and some other monsters and bad guys thrown in. GW took the setting out of Middle Earth, kept all the stuff they created (Sigmar, Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle, Skaven, Nagash, etc) and dumped it in a brand new bucket o' settings. In the end I'm fine with it; because there are plenty of places to get my "sort of Middle Earth" fix. I could play D&D, or any of the LotR miniature games, or any of the Witcher video games, or Skyrim, or Oblivion....and so on. All of the GW creations are like old friends at this point. If I can roll dice against Skaven or Khorne or Nagash I'm generally fine with whatever setting gets used.

(3)

I was and still am upset by the way GW handled the transition from Fantasy to AOS. The End Times brought a huge number of Fantasy players back into the game and many whom I talked to had nothing but good things to say about the game. Having all if that just end so abruptly was both a shock and a massive disappointment.

(4)

Q: As someone disappointed in AOS initially, or was having doubts even though you wanted to give it a chance... did you have any animosity or negative feelings towards players who were enjoying or were already transitioned into it? A: Absolutely not. Those were the players I talked to the most about AOS so I could understand the game play better.

(5)

As for the players, I've no quarrel with them; there are plenty of games out there that I don't care for and I won't take the piss out of people for liking

(6)

But, just because its not for me doesn't mean the people who like it are at fault

(7)

I haven't seen animosity towards people who enjoy AoS, though that's just the anecdote of one person and not even slightly indicative of a worldwide trend.

(8)

As far as I can tell, that even though AoS pissed off a lot of people, it's an unspoken truth that it's better for they hobby and GW as a whole. With that being said, this is all conjecture; just something I thought of while reading your query. I'm sure a lot of people disagree, but this is what I've noticed during my time in the hobby.

(9)

I also love how welcoming the community has become. New players are always embraced and supported where I live. This is not a hobby where you can afford to alienate new people, because you can't grow if you only play against the same small group.

(10)

Personally I have no problem with people who enjoy the new game, but the tone, style and setting are so unlike Warhammer Fantasy that I could never get into it myself.

(11)

As for players who are upset that WHFB is "gone" well....it's not gone. Unless you threw your models and rulebook in a fire it's not gone. If you know people who play then you can continue to play. It has the same problem as Destiny 1...it's no longer supported and not many people play it. Gamer outrage is just a form of immaturity. Something you loved returned in a form that doesn't quite meet your expectations so you decide to buy it anyway and blatched about how much you dislike it. Anyone still crying over WHFB years after it's gone away need to put their flapping big boy pants on and find a different game if they're that outraged.

(12)

Honestly, the worst thing someone said to me was in person, where I was introducing someone to the game and this random guy went up and started getting in my face about how She of Sigmar sucked and he hated the End Times. I just kind of walked away. He seemed mad that anyone could possibly like or support the game.

(13)

I think it's like the five stages of grief - people went through Denial and Anger, worked through the steps, and final settled on Acceptance. But there's always going to be grumpy people, in this hobby and related hobbies, people know how to hold a grudge when something happens to their beloved franchise.

(14)

My trouble came with online and dealing with other gaming groups in the area. I would go into a shop about an hour or two away and would get told about how i shouldnt buy fantasy models since its dead etc. But nothing really major. Online was horrible, honestly it was the least welcoming I have ever seen our hobby community. I was told my opinion was wrong, that i could only enjoy the game if tactical complexity was too difficult for me to manage. Insult ipon insult layered on me online. Some on this subreddit. Now its three years(seems shorter :p) and our little niche of the internet has basically returned to its healthy status, although I have to laugh at the fact that many of those that were the most insulting are still on this sub, and talk about AoS as if its the best thing ever haha.

(15)

The game had been a near constant part of my life. The fact that it went away was like a dagger to my heart- perhaps this is overstated, but it's an emotional response at this point. Losing Fantasy was like losing a part of my childhood. It was this odd and harsh reality that I'm not a kid anymore, I'm a 32 year old man already wondering where the time is going.

(16)

No one I know ever looked down on other players for playing AOS... maybe because no one really seemed to play it at all until points came out. And honestly, the game was fun. It's hard to be much of a hater when the mechanics are decent.

(17)

Around the time I learned I was incorrect in my assumptions, discovering a GW store not far from my then-new workplace, I was getting more into WHFB by way of Total War Warhammer. Now, I absolutely SUCK at Total War games, but it's a joy to watch other people play and it was fascinating to hear Warhammer fans gush about WHFB lore as they played. It got to the point where I'd watch lore videos made by such people... and, by extension, joined the bandwagon of hating Age of Sigmar for even existing. I mostly kept those opinions to myself, and irony of ironies, I expressed my disdain for it in the local shop on the very evening I decided "Maybe I ought to... well... at least check it out." It seems that the actual product ticks a lot of my boxes, as it were. I've taken this as a lesson to form one's own opinions instead of relying on hearsay.

(18)

I think the problem with video games is that these communities just feed off negativity and toxicity. I don´t know what it is exactly - maybe the sheer number of people who play video games like Destiny calls for some sort of "identity", since just being a "Destiny player" alone does not really create any kind of shared identity - whereas TT games are far off the mainstream and have comparably tiny communities, meaning that just being part of one "says" something about the individual, thus creating some sort of shared identity. So gamers might be inclined to use "othering" to differentiate themselves from the "other" game and it´s fans.

(19)

Another thing might be demographics - as much as the 10 year old insulting your mom via xbox live is a meme, there is definitely some truth to it. If I look at, say, the Crusader Kings 2 subreddit - a game mostly played by adults due to it´s complexity and theme - there aren´t really any fights or heated discussions. Whereas games aiming towards a younger demographic seem to breed toxicity.

(20)

Though I think CA angry fans are actually worse than the GW ones because they actually sent death threats to CA because of the move to fantasy and despite numerous confirmations that they aren't abandoning history games they still act like they did and attack them and the fan base. (The TWW2 announcement when history fans were trying to convince people the jungle full of dinosaur noises was actually a China teaser and thus exploding at outrage at the obvious conclusion was the worst). In the end though both CA and GW did the right thing for their dying franchises and in the end made fun, streamlined games that got people interested again and even brought back many of the salty fans.

(21)

Oh, there's plenty of grognards who actively hate on AoS players. Just go to the Kings of War or 9th Age forums and do some thread digging. No malice meant from this, it's just a fact. At this point, the horse is now a skeletal steed with how hard its been beaten. For the most part, they've left to do their own thing. I still remember walking into hobby stores and getting yelled at by the owners for wanting to try AoS, followed by the manager asking why I didn't want to play in their 9th/KoW/WHFB night. Ironically enough, 3 of the 4 local stores have just jumped ship to AoS. The 4th stubbornly refuses to host AoS games, despite nobody playing any Fantasy alternatives.

(22)

I've never met anyone in person who actually felt this way about WHFB - AoS. Only angry neckbeards on the internet.

(23)

You dont really see trolls and toxic peoples in tabletop wargaming (at least you see a lot less of them), because they're in front of you. There's a direct relation, to real people.

(24)

To answer your questions, no I haven't seen any negative attitudes or behaviour like that towards AoS players, with one distinct exception: The Chaos Dwarfs Online community. Even 3 years later, a lot of those grognards are still very upset about AoS in general

(25)

The most outraged that someone had been back then was a player who burned his miniatures in protest - and others just laughed at how petty and pitiful it was; fun fact - apparently the same dude also ended up playing AOS eventually

  • An overwhelming majority of respondents had not actively antagonized (or had any ill-will) to those who preferred or went over to AOS instead of reminiscing always about Fantasy or its (unofficial) 9th edition offshoot.
  • The only person who was being antagonistic in the discussion was downvoted heavily for his immaturity (you'll see it in the comments).
  • Of the respondents who felt there was some antagonism among players, they mentioned that (a) this happened mostly in 'niche' forums, or barely moderated Facebook groups; (b) or in one person's case, a random wacky person who came up to him; (c) or in another player's case, some store owners who initially were apprehensive to AOS, and then eventually made the move.

What does this mean?

It means that even in a franchise where the world literally ended, and people had to adjust to something 'new' and something 'different' from what they were accustomed to:

  • People were able to make the adjustment despite their apprehension or doubts
  • People who did not - moved on and found other hobbies, or still played WHFB occasionally
  • People were able to manage and temper their outrage and disappointment
  • And those who did not never directed their anger towards other players (unless it was in smaller/niche groups)

A franchise that was beloved for 30+ YEARS, whose world had literally been ended, destroyed, and consumed by Chaos... still had a community that was mature enough and welcoming of new people.

Compare that to the antagonism that runs rampant in Destiny communities... and wow... what a difference!

Why do people think that way? Is it personal?

Rejection? Hopelessness? Powerlessness? The idea that everything they did came to nothing? The idea that they are no longer 'what matters'?

What we do know is that scientific studies have pointed out that video game addiction can indeed be correlated to real life issues, real life disorders.

Literally the moment someone's post has an angry/miserable tone that begins with:

"I have played D1 for 3 billion hours / I have been playing since the alpha"... you know where this is heading.

This isn't to say that everyone who devoted a lot of hours into Destiny 1 have some sort of disorder (LOL NO, of course not!) - it simply means that those who do experience these issues in real life are 'more prone' to becoming addicted to games; and subsequently, the more that they lash out and become frustrated when their needs are not met by those video games.

Some additional scientific reading materials here; here; here; here; here; and here.

  • Feel free to check my user history at the discussions I've made, as well as the guides, dad jokes, dorky posts, memes, and fun topics about various hobbies/subreddits - there's a good mix there of both fun, dorkyness, and seriousness.
  • Now, compare that when you encounter someone who's extremely disgruntled about Destiny. Check out their online interactions... notice something that sticks out like a sore thumb? That's right... they have little to no discussions about the game except negative ones; or that they barely discuss anything else.

There's a subconscious need there to validate certain emotions felt about Destiny; to seek discussions that reinforce those emotions.

Here are some key replies I've read the past few weeks:

(1) A Redditor who actively played Trials in D1 and often streamed/did carries recently told me:

"We feel that D2 is so different from D1, and when we see people enjoying it, it's like a 'slap in the face' of the hardcore fanbase."*

(2) A Redditor whom I had asked why he was so averse to the idea of different opinions said:

"People who have different opinions are like 'the enemy', because they give feedback that is 'dangerous' to how I enjoy my video games."

(3) A Redditor who's angry about the state of Destiny 2 feels that every opinion that validates his opinions is good, and every counterpoint is:

just plain BS, misleading, and plain wrong; and everyone who disagrees with his sentiments is a shill/fanboy

Side Note: This particular Redditor once felt I've been 'like this for many years'; it implied that 'he had history with me'. So I did a bit of digging:

  • I found out that he was actually part of the discussions in my 'old Skolas guides' (3 years ago). He disagreed with my strategies, which also led him to complain ANGRILY in the next guides I wrote - basically missing the point that the guides were 'meant to help players' (which they did, since a lot of folks used my guides for their MOT's).
  • When I finally pointed out how he shouldn't be angry at all, he started deleting his comments out of embarrassment.
  • What I'm saying is - one of the angriest and most vocal people in the community today... is actually someone who's just angry when people 'have a different opinion'; you don't even have to talk anything specific about D2, it's simply the notion of someone having a different idea that generates anger

(4) A Redditor who felt frustrated about how the game's turning out after the recent patch

He previously had no complaints about TTK (and his complaints were mostly about the loot and grind). He then started feeling frustrated when streamers stopped playing 'because he loved watching them', and at the same time, he started espousing 'how TTK will save the game' (after streamers made it a popular talking point)

  • Basically, it's someone who had this fascination with streamers and believing 100% what they say, and feels the game is hopeless unless the streamers he likes end up liking it too.

(5) A Redditor who feels that the game is in "Infinite Crisis" mode

Who also has not played the game in 6 months, and mostly just joins discussions that validate a negative sentiment

  • He refuses to play the game because it's bad; and the only choice he has is to keep saying it's bad... because he doesn't want to play it.

(6) A Redditor who feels that we should give no praise or be happy when changes are made as long as Destiny 2 isn't Destiny 1

From a fella who only plays and devotes his time to D1 now

  • So basically, the idea that's popular is to only feel positive when the game becomes D1 again

(7) And a mish-mash of other responses I've received over the past months when talking to 'outraged Guardians' - many of whom have this certain 'tone' - like that personal connection with a video game led to emotional hurt and real pain.

And next, take a look at some responses in past discussions:

Take note of the replies and the people saying them.

  • You'll have those who can offer empathy; or those who can be balanced and fair, providing constructive criticism.

  • And then you'll have these types of responses:

"Good, it's working, they're feeling miserable. Let's keep it up!"

"This post is just a PR stunt/damage control."

"YOU need to understand why we feel this way." <lists reasons>

"WE are the people who made this possible! You should be grateful!"

Watch the latter-type of sentiments gain traction, pushed forward by the outrage

It's even funnier in this topic: "A streamer's opinion on PVP"

  • Watch how some folks say how 'cool and nice it is to see different opinions'.
  • Next, check out some of their PAST interactions with other gamers who have different opinions (Hint: 'they never felt it was cool when people had different opinions; far too often, they'd call them shills, fanboys, or sheep').
  • It's like the only way for some people to accept that 'different opinions exist' - is based on the number of subscribers/viewers. Hah!

People seek validity in feeling bad about something. People need that affirmation and justification.

Let's go back to Part One of the Outrage Series - particularly these tidbits:

Outrage, research shows, has a delicate dynamic, triggered by the emotional environment. Outrage is contagious.

Outrage's contagion is often a force for good. What was once accepted as the way of the world can be exposed as an evil by others' outrage. Sexual harassment, for example, when condemned by others, emerges from its safe hiding spaces to wither in the spotlight. On the other hand, the more xenophobes declare themselves, the more readily others join them.

Outrage is one of those emotions (such as anger) that feed and get fat on themselves. Yet it is different from anger, which is more personal, corrosive and painful.

Outrage quickly infiltrates our identity. Our disapproval nestles in our persona. As a result, it can reach out to others and inspire discussion. But this feature also fosters an us-versus-them environment. We who are offended form a good group; those who are not offended are different from us.

The pleasure of strong negative judgment becomes so enjoyable we seek opportunities to trigger it.

Watch how I apply that in this topic over on r/TotalWar:

Watch how I present some key information on how outrage works, and how easily gamers are manipulated.

  • Next, watch as 2-3 people have emotional reactions about some offense/personal slight they felt
  • Watch me respond to them in a way that does not validate those sentiments, and therefore trigger more emotional responses
  • Watch someone practically agree with my guess that 'he promotes the socio-political ideals of The Little Guy fighting against Big, Evil Corporations', and dislikes the idea that someone does not feel the same way he does.

In a comment thread talking about how easily outrage manipulates gamers, watch as how easily some respondents turn themselves into walking examples.

Why is tempering and managing outrage important?

Simply put - when you strip away all that emotional baggage, all that outrage and anger, all the viewers/subscribers, all the likes/dislikes/upvotes/downvotes - take all of those away and you'll find one simple fact:

We're all just gamers.

  • The same people we once were in an 80's arcade arguing whether Ryu or Ken was better?
  • The same people who preferred Ridge Racer to Gran Turismo, or Daytona?
  • The same people who chose Nintendo, or Sega, and the arguments inbetween?
  • The same people who liked Final Fantasy 7 and 8, but not 9, and were totally on-board with 6; versus the ones who liked 9, not 7, slightly okay with 8, and totally on-board with 6?

The same things we argued about as kids normally were resolved because (a) we were doing it face-to-face; (b) we were also interested at why our friend likes a different game than we do.

We used games as a means to socialize; to find friends, to keep friendships strong. We used games to pass the time.

We used games to have fun, and were never against others finding fun in their own way.

Outrage turns us into walking time-bombs and crusaders - and while in some cases it's justified - it loses all semblance of justification when we use it to antagonize or alienate others who don't feel the same way we do.

We lose sight of games as mere hobbies. Instead we turn them into our online burdens, our online battlegrounds; our source of validation and emotional affirmation.

Remember how Destiny 1 had millions of players at the start - and so many people were hating it and disappointed in it. And they all laughed and antagonized people who still played it.

Those millions of players bled out and hemorrhaged, until we barely had 800k to 1 million by Rise of Iron (where D1 had finally achieved the impossible - it reached its fullest potential, and everyone was happy).

Now imagine a huge chunk of that remaining playerbase so angry and dejected, and outraged at what the sequel has become...

That they practically turned into the same people who were antagonizing them for continuing to play the first game in the past - they ended up rejecting and ostracizing those who play the sequel.

The same folks who go: "I have played thousands of hours of D1 - and people who play D2 are the reason the game is in a bad state" - are also talking about others who played thousands of hours of D1... who just aren't as angry as they are.

How funny life turns, eh Bob?

In closing, I'd like to point out the tale of some topics:

(1) A Redditor once made a topic of how Destiny 2 was able to help her cope with her depression. She knew the game was flawed and disappointing. But she still found some way to enjoy it, and it helped her in fighting her problems.

  • The topic had 200+ points; 61% upvoted
  • This means roughly 50+ people downvoted it because it talked about Destiny 2 in a good way, nevermind the idea of empathizing with another Guardian

(2) A Redditor - u/Andraste_Blaze mentioned this:

I wrote a post a while back about my daughter and what Destiny did for us and it hardly saw any response at all because it was positive in tone. So, how do we change things? Can we change things? Or is the so-called community too far gone in their vitriol?

  • His topic is about his daughter who has autism, and how Destiny 1 and 2 both helped them reconnect as parent-to-child.
  • It had 38 points, 73% upvoted; only 16 comments and never made it to the front-page.
  • Yes, a lot of players ignored it simply because it was 'positive', and was not worth talking about because it was not 'angry about the game'.

(3) Watch how certain discussions are ignored... all because they are not as 'outraged' as the rest.

Watch how Redditors say there's "nothing to talk about"; while at the same time ignoring fellow gamers who have "something else to talk about".

The Lesson:

Video games were meant to be good, and fun, and a means for us to enjoy and connect. From one gamer-to-another; from parent-to-child...

They were never meant to be divisive.

Outrage makes it such.

And there you have it...

Wow! That was long!

(I should reaaaallly just make a Youtube channel since everyone prefers watching videos over reading text anyway... but I'm old-fashioned, and boring... yep... oh well...)

Thank you for reading the entire article, as well as the previous discussions.

Cheers, Guardians~

-- EL2

submitted by /u/el2mador
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Looking for clan on Xbox one that is interested in playing a lot of competitive matches to help raise my KD. I'm good, but can only do so much with randoms. Gt is Young Plagues, battlenet is georgewkushpew

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 10:04 AM PDT

Destiny 2 ROLEPLAY

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 02:30 AM PDT

Once again I feel obliged to post here on reddit.

Some time ago I made it "my" destiny to create a crossplatform ROLEPLAY server for Destiny 2.

It's been in full function and is doing really well. The RP is great and people really give themselves to the story of their own guardian.

The RP is found on this Discord server: https://discord.gg/ParPAhk

The future for this server is packed with upcoming events both in-game and on the Discord server itself.

So stay tuned, and join in!

Best regards Tharis123

submitted by /u/Tharis123
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I show dominance and challenge anyone that tries to take my throne

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 11:01 PM PDT

Pretty Nice Clutch

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 10:00 AM PDT

How to get that emblem where the gray box is?

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 09:57 AM PDT

Finally made it!

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 03:22 PM PDT

Finally got that selfie emote!

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 01:26 AM PDT

RNGesus finally took mercy on me and let me have the sweet selfie emote!

Enjoy my first selfie ingame.

https://imgur.com/gallery/HdmZH

submitted by /u/Great_Battoman
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Nightfall solo on normal with my titan :)

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 10:16 PM PDT

Anyone willing to help me through a raid

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 08:42 AM PDT

I just got back into destiny and I'm just around 317 light and I barely get anything higher than my level and I'm pretty sure the easiest way is the raids I also want to actually run the raid either way. Since everyone on Xbox lfg wants experienced players I can't get into anything😂. I also don't know if I'm allowed to post like this on the sub but thanks if anyone can help me.

submitted by /u/alshara24
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Does Gemini Jester work with the Arcstrider super dodge?

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 08:23 AM PDT

If it does that would be a sick combo

submitted by /u/Pillowman7
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Looking for an active clan on XBONE

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 07:47 AM PDT

Hey guys, Looking for an active clan of adults. I had the game on PS4 and had done everything, recently swapped to XBONE and don't know anyone, would like people to run everything with (Trials, Raid) down to earth player, and good for a laugh.

submitted by /u/Vickaah
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Dear Nightstalkers in Mayhem

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 04:23 PM PDT

Why are you the way that you are? Who hurt you? Why do you hate fun?

submitted by /u/hunterhashunger
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Not 100,000 origin story kills but still this guy has dedication.

Posted: 04 Apr 2018 07:31 AM PDT

Should i buy Curse of Osiris?

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 11:39 PM PDT

Ive come back to D2 and i want to know if its worth buying Curse of Osiris ? I want to do heroic strikes but im locked out smh... It seems my light lvl has been stunted and the weapons that are dropping are just duplicates with the same 399 light lvl.

submitted by /u/Nutellaizyum
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Please BUNGIE - fix the Exodus Crash Strike BEFORE you make it a Nightfall

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 12:15 PM PDT

I love this Strike right up to the boss fight. While I think a lot of things in this game are non-unanimous - it seems like everyone hates this Strike. Can not tell you how many times I load into this Strike and hesitate to start - someone returns to orbit then the next guy then I'm like ok guess I'm not going solo. Just seems like the mechanics of the boss fight make this thing drag out. I'll probably pass for the week. Be curious to see the numbers if they make this the NF. This is coming from a guy who likes the new nightfall setup (minus the loot - that was a severe misstep in my opinion; we need more time to make it super cool.....careful how you hype something). I digress; fix the boss fight and I'm all in. Prestige NFs are the most fun I've had in the game in a while. Just one guardian's opinion. Anyone have other thoughts?

submitted by /u/DSM2013
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