Unlabelled Dota 2 - ESL One Genting 2018 Day 2 Match Discussions

1/25/2018 03:30:00 am
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Dota 2 - ESL One Genting 2018 Day 2 Match Discussions

ESL One Genting 2018 Day 2 Match Discussions

Posted: 23 Jan 2018 06:20 PM PST

ESL One Genting 2018

Presented by ESL & Mineski Events Team

Sponsored by Intel, Mercedes Benz, MSI, Predator, Logitech G, NEED for SEAT, paysafecard, & Resort World Genting

Need info on the event? Check out the Survival Guide.

See here for yesterday's VODS and results

Coverage

Liquipedia | JoinDota | GosuGamers | Dotabuff

Streams

English Main | English 2 | Russian | Russian 2

Group A Group B
Team Secret Team Liquid
Planet Dog PENTA Sports
compLexity Gaming Natus Vincere
Fnatic Evil Geniuses
Vici Gaming Mineski
VGJ.Thunder TNC Pro Team
SG e-sports LGD.Forever Young
Virtus Pro Newbee
ID Team vs Team Result Cntdwn (SGT) PST EST GMT CET SGT AEDT Frmt
B LR1-1 PENTA vs 12:00 20:00 23:00 4:00 5:00 12:00 15:00 Bo3
B LR1-2 vs 12:00 20:00 23:00 4:00 5:00 12:00 15:00 Bo3
B SF1 vs 15:30 23:30 2:30 7:30 8:30 15:30 18:30 Bo3
A LSF1 vs 15:30 23:30 2:30 7:30 8:30 15:30 18:30 Bo3
B SF2 vs 19:00 3:00 6:00 11:00 12:00 19:00 22:00 Bo3
A LSF2 vs 19:00 3:00 6:00 11:00 12:00 19:00 22:00 Bo3

Group B - Lower Bracket Round 1 Match 1: PENTA Sports vs Evil Geniuses

Game 1 Winner:
Game 2 Winner:
Game 3 Winner:

Result:   1:2  

Match thread

VODS: Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3

Group B - Lower Bracket Round 1 Match 2: Mineski vs LGD.Forever Young

Game 1 Winner:
Game 2 Winner:
Game 3 Winner:

Result:   2:0  

Match thread

VODS: Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3

Group B - Semifinal 1: Team Liquid vs Natus Vincere

Game 1 Winner:
Game 2 Winner:
Game 3 Winner:

Result:   2:0  

Match thread

VODS: Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3

Group A - Loser's Semifinal 1: VGJ.Thunder vs compLexity Gaming

Game 1 Winner:
Game 2 Winner:
Game 3 Winner:

Result:   2:0  

Match thread

VODS: Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3

Group B - Semifinal 2: TNC Pro Team vs Newbee

Game 1 Winner:
Game 2 Winner:
Game 3 Winner:

Result:   0:2  

Match thread

VODS: Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3

Group A - Loser's Semifinal 2: Fnatic vs Vici Gaming

Game 1 Winner:
Game 2 Winner:
Game 3 Winner:

Result:   1:2  

Match thread

VODS: Game 1 | [Game 2]() | [Game 3]()

Countdown times are in SGT. All times are subject to change based on the length of matches and delays.

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Hero Discussion of the Day: Gondar, the Bounty Hunter (January 24th, 2018)

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 11:53 AM PST

Gondar, the Bounty Hunter

Gondar the Bounty Hunter is a melee agility Hero that excels at hunting, chasing down and killing single targets. His skill set allows him to roam and gank very effectively, as his Shadow Walk allows him to sneak up to unsuspecting targets to initiate. Shadow Walk is also an effective escape and mobility spell, as he can run from dangerous situations and roam invisibly around the map to keep the enemy guessing even if they have Observer Wards active. His ability to deal medium amounts of damage with Jinada, interrupt their Town Portal Scrolls with Shuriken Toss, and keep perfect tabs on their location and movements with Track all make him a powerful and ruthless ganker who is all but impossible to escape once he has his sights locked in. Bounty Hunter's ability to roam, scout and get important kills for his team while bolstering their gold gain with Track can secure his team a strong gold advantage, and give his foes no safe place to hide.

Lore

When the hunted tell tales of Gondar the Bounty Hunter, none are sure of which are true. In whispered tones they say he was abandoned as a kit, learning his skill in tracking as a matter of simple survival. Others hear he was an orphan of war, taken in by the great Soruq the Hunter to learn the master's skill with a blade as they plumbed the dark forests for big game. Still others believe he was a lowly street urchin raised among a guild of cutpurses and thieves, trained in the arts of stealth and misdirection. Around campfires in the wild countryside his quarry speaks the rumors of Gondar's work, growing ever more fearful: they say it was he who tracked down the tyrant King Goff years after the mad regent went into hiding, delivering his head and scepter as proof. That it was he who infiltrated the rebel camps at Highseat, finally bringing the legendary thief White Cape to be judged for his crimes. And that it was he who ended the career of Soruq the Hunter, condemned as a criminal for killing the Prince's prized hellkite. The tales of Gondar's incredible skill stretch on, with each daring feat more unbelievable than the last, each target more elusive. For the right price, the hunted know, anyone can be found. For the right price, even the mightiest may find fear in the shadows.

Roles: Escape, Nuker

Strength: 17 + 2.1

Agility: 21 + 3

Intelligence: 19 + 2

 

Damage: 45-59

Armor: 6.5

Movement Speed: 315

Attack Range: 150

Missile Speed: Instant

Base Attack Time: 1.7

Sight Range: 1800 (Day) / 800 (Night)

Turn Rate: 0.6

Spells

Shuriken Toss

Hurls a deadly shuriken at an enemy unit, dealing damage and mini-stunning the target. The shuriken will bounce between any Tracked units who are within a 1200 radius of each other.

Level Manacost Cooldown Casting Range Area Duration Effects
1 120 10s 400 N/A 0.1s Throws a shuriken which deals 150 damage to the enemy target. The shuriken can bounce between tracked enemies.
2 130 10s 400 N/A 0.1s Throws a shuriken which deals 225 damage to the enemy target. The shuriken can bounce between tracked enemies.
3 140 10s 400 N/A 0.1s Throws a shuriken which deals 300 damage to the enemy target. The shuriken can bounce between tracked enemies.
4 150 10s 400 N/A 0.1s Throws a shuriken which deals 375 damage to the enemy target. The shuriken can bounce between tracked enemies.

  • Dispellable

  • The shuriken travels at a speed of 1000.

  • Applies damage before stun.

  • The initial target does not have to be Tracked for the shuriken to bounce.

  • Can only bounce to each unit once.

  • Cannot bounce to, but can bounce off of invulnerable or hidden units.

  • When upgraded by Aghanim's Scepter, the shuriken bounces on each tracked enemies a second time.

    • It first jumps on all tracked units it didn't jump to yet. If no such enemies are found, it jumps to tracked enemies it jumped onto already.
    • Cannot bounce on the same unit twice in a row, so if used against a lone tracked target, it is only hit once.

  • Choosing the damage upgrading talent immediately upgrades all of Bounty Hunter's currently flying shurikens.

While the shuriken may be small, Gondar's precise aim can cause critical damage.

 

Jinada

Passive

Bounty Hunter plans his next hit, passively adding a critical strike and maim to his next attack.

Level Manacost Cooldown Casting Range Area Duration Effects
1 N/A 12s N/A N/A 3s Causes Gondar's next attack to deal 150% critical damage and slow the target for 15% movespeed and 15 attack speed
2 N/A 10s N/A N/A 3s Causes Gondar's next attack to deal 175% critical damage and slow the target for 20% movespeed and 20 attack speed
3 N/A 8s N/A N/A 3s Causes Gondar's next attack to deal 200% critical damage and slow the target for 25% movespeed and 25 attack speed
4 N/A 6s N/A N/A 3s Causes Gondar's next attack to deal 225% critical damage and slow the target for 30% movespeed and 30 attack speed

  • Dispellable

  • When off cooldown, Bounty Hunter's weapons emit particle effects.

  • Checks its cooldown on attack begin, not on attack hit.

    • This means Jinada does not apply when it went off cooldown during the attack animation.

Whispering an enchantment he learned from Soruq to his faithful blades, Gondar targets vital tendons and joints to disable his opponents.

 

Shadow Walk

Bounty Hunter becomes invisible and gains the ability to move through other units until he attacks or uses an ability. If he breaks the invisibility with an attack, that attack will deal bonus damage.

Level Manacost Cooldown Casting Range Area Duration Effects
1 65 15s N/A N/A 20s Turns Gondar inivisible with a 1 second fade time, his next attack out of invisibility deals 30 bonus damage
2 65 15s N/A N/A 25s Turns Gondar inivisible with a 0.75 second fade time, his next attack out of invisibility deals 60 bonus damage
3 65 15s N/A N/A 30s Turns Gondar inivisible with a 0.5 second fade time, his next attack out of invisibility deals 90 bonus damage
4 65 15s N/A N/A 35s Turns Gondar inivisible with a 0.25 second fade time, his next attack out of invisibility deals 120 bonus damage

  • Undispellable

  • Does not interrupt Bounty Hunter's channeling spells upon cast.

  • The bonus damage is not added to Bounty Hunter's attack damage.

    • This means that its damage is unaffected by e.g. Jinada, Enfeeble or Empower.
    • This also means that Bounty Hunter cannot lifesteal off of it and the damage cannot crit or cleave.

  • During the fade time, Bounty Hunter can cast spells, use items and perform attacks without breaking the invisibility.

    • Those attacks apply the Shadow Walk damage.

  • The invisibility is broken upon reaching the cast point of spells or items, or upon landing an attack. Missed attacks do not break it.

  • Shadow Walk allows Bounty Hunter to pass through other units, including wards, but not through buildings.

  • Bounty Hunter can pick up, drop or attack items without breaking the invisibility.

The court jesters present during King Goff's assassination can recount no other image than a dancing shadow.

 

Track

Ultimate

Tracks an enemy hero, granting True Sight of the target, and information on how much gold it is carrying. Allies near the hunted are granted bonus movement speed. If the target dies, Bounty Hunter and nearby heroes collect a bonus bounty of gold.

Level Mana Cost Cooldown Casting Range Area Duration Effects
1 65 4s 1200 N/A 30s Tracks an enemy hero giving constant vision of the target (even if invisible) and 16% bonus movespeed to surrounding allies. On the death of a tracked hero, Bounty Hunter will get 150 bonus gold and surrounding allies will get 40 bonus gold
2 65 4s 1200 N/A 30s Tracks an enemy hero giving constant vision of the target (even if invisible) and 18% bonus movespeed to surrounding allies. On the death of a tracked hero, Bounty Hunter will get 250 bonus gold and surrounding allies will get 80 bonus gold
3 65 4s 1200 N/A 30s Tracks an enemy hero giving constant vision of the target (even if invisible) and 20% bonus movespeed to surrounding allies. On the death of a tracked hero, Bounty Hunter will get 350 bonus gold and surrounding allies will get 120 bonus gold

  • Despite the visual effect, the Track debuff is applied instantly on the target.

  • Provides shared vision and True Sight over the target.

  • Grants the gold to Bounty Hunter and his allies around the target when the target dies, no matter how it dies.

  • The bonus gold is added as reliable gold.

  • Track can be cast on illusions and Tempest Doubles, but does not grant any gold when they die.

  • Allies only get the bonus gold if they are within 900 range of the tracked hero while alive. Bounty Hunter himself gets the gold regardless of distance, even while dead.

  • The move speed is provided by an aura on the target. Its buff lingers for 0.5 seconds. Multiple instances of the aura do not stack.

  • When multiple Meepos are tracked and one of them dies, each Meepo grants the Track gold around them.

  • The visual effects and sound of Track are only visible and audible to Bounty Hunter and his allies. However, the debuff is visible to everyone.

  • The visual effects on allies given by the move speed buff are visible to everyone as well.

  • The move speed buff is also applied to neutral creeps, including Roshan.

  • The debuff icon on the target shows how much gold it currently has.0

  • Alt-clicking the debuff also announces their current gold in the chat.

Using his elevated senses of sight and smell, Gondar's hits have quite a good chance of success.

Talent Tree

Level Option 1 Option 2
25 +300 Track Gold (+1.6%) OR 50% Evasion
20 +125% Jinada Critical Strike OR +75 Shuriken Toss Damage (+4.4%)
15 +350 Health (+5.2%) OR +50 Attack Speed
10 +25% XP Gain OR +30 Movement Speed (+1.3%)

Matchups

Best against

Opponent hero Advantage
Spectre 2.79%
Doom 2.28%
Undying 2.05%
Medusa 1.87%
Clinkz 1.73%

Worst against

Opponent hero Advantage
Meepo -3.52%
Phantom Lancer -3.24%
Slark -2.79%
Naga Siren -2.33%
Chaos Knight -2.23%

Recent Changelog

7.07

  • Reduced movement speed from 320 to 315.

  • Increased base health regeneration from 0.5 to 2.

  • Increased base mana regeneration from 0.01 to 0.9.

  • Reworked talents:

    • Level 10: +25% experience gain or +30 movement speed
    • Level 15: +350 health or +50 attack speed
    • Level 20: +125% Jinada critical damage or +75 Shuriken Toss damage
    • Level 25: +300 Track gold or 50% evasion

7.06d

  • Increased base movement speed from 315 to 320.

7.06

  • Increased strength gain from 1.8 to 2.1.

  • Reduced base health regeneration from 0.75 to 0.5.

  • Shuriken Toss

    • Fixed being unable to bounce off of spell immune, invulnerable or hidden before impact.
    • Fixed being unable to bounce onto spell immune enemies.
    • Linken's Sphere no longer causes the Shuriken to stop bouncing when blocked.

7.02

  • Aghanim's Scepter now also increases Shuriken Toss stun duration from 0.1 to 0.75.

  • Level 10 left talent: Increased experience bonus from 15% to 20%.

  • Level 20 left talent: Increased attack damage bonus from 100 to 120.

  • Level 20 right talent: Replaced 8% spell damage amplification with +75 Shuriken Toss damage.

  • Level 25 right talent: Increased evasion from 20% to 25%.

Previous hero related threads

Hero discussion of the day, 22.12.2011

Hero discussion of the day, 06.03.2012

Hero discussion of the day, 04.06.2013

Hero discussion of the day, 22.09.2013

Hero tips for Bounty Hunter

Previous hero discussion

Bloodseeker (January 16th, 2018)

Valve Artwork | Voice Responses | In-game Icon | Dota Cinema Video Overview | Dota2Wiki page | Liquipedia page | Hero discussion archive

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BananaSlamJamma banned on twitch. ESL, this is UNACCEPTABLE

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 12:06 AM PST

ESL is going after everyone streaming the games disregarding valve's statement about playing nice(Already banned MLP and a BTS channel). They've also scared Bulldog and PPD off of streaming the games. Surely this isn't something they're allowed to do, thoughts?

Edit: BSJ's twitter post https://twitter.com/BananaSlamJamma/status/956076067164446720

Edit 2: ESL's statement on the issue https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/7skypn/on_streams_from_esl_genting/

submitted by /u/festivalmusicnote
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WESG wants to deduct my team's winnings, telling my team and I to pay for 5 return airtickets amounting to 1700USD

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 04:11 AM PST

This is my very first time on Reddit. Many friends and gamers told me i could post here and seek for advice and help. I thought about it, and its really unpleasant to make a post here as the tournament is still going on (Finals in March 2018). However, i would like to reach out to all managers and players to be very careful with booking of their air tickets and I sincerely do not want this to happen to another team and their players. (Please bear with my bad English, and correct me as I go along, Thank you)

Our Team Kazakhstan won first in their qualifiers and therefore attained tickets and a slot at the regional APAC finals at WESG. Visas were so difficult to get approved from the China Embassy, whether individual or group visa. As for individual visas, I had tried to request for "barcodes" from Alisports for instant approval, but after waiting for 3 weeks, Alisports told me its not possible to get barcodes anymore, and told me to find other ways to attain our visas. I then told my players to get group visas, which needed a lot of documents (for example, bank statements, and police statements, and many more). One of my team player was located at another far end of Kazakhstan, and he flew to the main city to try and get his individual visa done but to no avail, as there are only 2 Chinese Embassies in Kazakhstan, and the one he flew to, do not issue individual visas without barcodes.

Monday, 8th January was our proposed starting date of WESG lan. We are instructed to be there at 8th January to report at the hotels. And we only attained our group visas at 5th January (worth 420 USD), and I asked for 2 way tickets, routing from Kazakhstan to China (back and forth), I even drafted a route with all my 5 players domestic flights and told the interpreter to book the flights proposed. I received a proposed flight plan back, and it was not as i stated in the email, but because all the flights that was in the proposal could bring my players back to their respective cities, i said yes, and told them to hurry with the ordering of tickets. Some domestic flights started at Sunday morning, and All my players had to fly to Almaty, Kazakhstan, then take a flight together to Beijing. And i will meet them in Beijing via a flight from Singapore. And then 6 of us will take the same flight from Beijing to Qingdao (WESG lan). Many times i asked the interpreter to put me on the same flight with them from Beijing, but apparently (later i found out) she did not convey this message to the tour agency, and just told me "its not possible". I received the tickets all on Saturday morning, and i paid 80 USD from my own pocket to get the flight changed, so i can meet my players and fly with them together to qingdao.

Food was mentioned to be provided for all days throughout WESG, but it was not the case for the first day (and also last day of WESG) when we arrived. Many teams were shocked that food was not provided on first day, but we were all excited and did not really bother about it. Organisers told us that because they were not able to estimate the number of teams that would arrive on the first day, and therefore did not order food for us on first day. Anyways, this is not the main issue, WESG APAC was completed successfully, and the event was a blast. All players enjoyed themselves in that one week and we all had flights back to our countries on 15th January. We won 3rd place at the event by the way.

15th January Monday itself, i paid again out from my pocket to fly back to Singapore via Shenzhen, to my family business lodging at a later time, because WESG gave me tickets that were so early in the morning at 0755am, and this means i had to leave my players alone in China all the way until 2200Hrs at night where they will have their domestic flight from Qingdao to Beijing. I ve never really planned to leave them alone, so ive changed my tickets to depart at 1800hrs instead. We were notified to check out of hotel rooms at 12noon, but i paid for the room to be extended until 1800hrs, (like some other managers did the same as well) for the safety and comfort of our players.

My team went from Qingdao to Beijing, reaching Beijing at midnight. Then a problem arised that they were not able to have boarding passes for their respective flights as they were on group visas, and they need to leave China together via the same flight. 3 boys leave on one flight from Beijing to Astana at about 2:30am, and the other 2 boys will leave from Beijing to Almaty at 5:55am. The Beijing airport requires all domestic flights passengers to check out of the airport and to check in again with baggage, and they do not have ample time to wait for answers and confirmation and thus they missed the very first flight to astana. So team leader tried to contact me via public phone calling to my Singapore number but i did not notice the calls until about 630am, and team leader told me that they needed group airtickets. I frantically called WESG organisers, and asked them for help, they were fast on helping me, and tickets were booked for them, however, they needed to stay in the airport for one more entire day as the flights were early morning at 5:55am as a group this time. Throughout the time, i attained the contact of the tour agency lady, AA . who initially booked the tickets and she was in doubt about who was paying for the new tickets. Alisports then dropped the bomb on me saying they will deduct the air tickets from our prize winnings.

Its now 24th Jan, and I am still disputing this 1700 USD. They insisted that we should shoulder this amount as we confirmed the tickets before we took our flights to China. I wrote an email (i cut the email short here) to dispute the airticket charges, stating these points, with picture evidences and screen shots of our convos and emails.

"1) Team Manager already informed interpreter XX, about 5 times during conversation, that our team booked group visa. It was proven to XX via emails, and via wechat convos.

2) Team Manager do not have direct contact communication with Ms AA (tour agency lady), and when Manager asked Ms AA whether she was informed about the group visas, Ms AA claimed she was not informed at all about this important and crucial information. If she had known we had group visas, She would book return tickets as a group from Beijing into Kazakhstan because of her profession as a tour agency agent, she knows about this visa rule.

3) Manager asked for 2 way tickets for the trips and also stated in the email that they are travelling on group visas, (5 times mentioned to interpreter, XX), when the tour agency gave us the draft copy, we readily respected the wishes of the tour agency because we trusted WESG to be informed of our travelling documents and visas, as we are only players/team and we do not have knowledge about ticketing terms and conditions.

4) Terms and conditions of the tickets were not known to us when WESG purchased the tickets. We were not aware that group visas required us to have the same exact tickets when travelling out of Beijing.

This email dispute is not to blame, not to find fault and not to be critical against our interpreter, but if words and messages are not conveyed in the proper manner, or there is communication breakdown because of a middle man, Then maybe WESG committee can see the loopholes and we all can improve on our errors and mistakes. if you need further proof, I can attach it via email for u. Please let me know if you need it, because i am giving the interpreter the benefit of the doubt, that she will say the truth with me.

Please kindly understand our positions, and we came to China, empty handed. I hope our prize money can help our family and the bad gaming conditions at home and make us be a better team for March finals.

Many thanks and Best regards, Manager of Team Kazakhstan. "

Today, 24th Jan, the director of Alisports Esports committee called me, and told me that the final decision has not been made yet. And alisports Still wants me to cover the cost of the air tickets. I am hereby desperate, and i am seeking fellow gaming community to give me advice and help on how to resolve this situation. We are only participants of this event, if we did not win this 10k USD, would Alisports help us with the booking of return tickets? one nice guy from alisports said yes, but now, i would like to tell all teams, with managers or without, that if you guys have group visas, it is required for you to enter and also leave the participating country together as a group. No one but the travel agencies knows about this visa rule, and yet this information was not passed to her.... The director told me this has never happened in the history of WESG. =( Help me please. I think i really need help this time.

Thank you for patience. Love, Moon, Manager for Team Kazakhstan

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Legal Analysis of the ESL Genting Situation & DMCA

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 10:22 AM PST

Hey Everyone,

This sub has exploded with anger over the handling of ESL Genting and ESL's decision to issue DMCA takedown notices to a wide array of streams broadcasting the games on Twitch. While some of the public dialogue surrounding these issues shows a good understanding of the underlying legal concepts, the majority of it does not. I figured I'd drop in here and make sure everyone has a full grasp of the legal nuances of this situation, as well as to give my own take on how this should/will play out. Before I do, I'll include some quick info on my qualifications/background so you know who I am and why I'm in a position to analyze all of this. Feel free to skip that section if you don't care (which, btw, you should because a lot of people are trusting bold statements with little support) or skip all the way to the bottom for the TL;DR if you want to avoid the massive wall of text I'm about to write.

My background: I've practiced law since 2013 and own the world's only law firm that is solely dedicated to esports (www.esglaw.com). My client base includes esports teams, broadcast talent, and esports-focused businesses. I also want to mention that I work with BTS—while everything I'm about to say is my own opinion and does not reflect viewpoints of BTS, the bias here is worth noting as they had a stream taken down as well. FWIW, I also have a number of personal friends working on esports at ESL and Facebook as well, so it's not like my biases only flow in one direction. Through my work in this industry, I have dealt with the DMCA on behalf of dozens of clients in a wide array of contexts. If you want a more full bio, here you go.

The basics of copyright law:

Under Title 17 USC § 106 of the Copyright Act, copyright holders have the exclusive right to publicly perform the work and to reproduce copies of the work. However, copyright holders can grant licenses to others to use the protected work at the discretion of the copyright holder.

Typical streams include several discrete elements: The game, oral commentary, video showing the face(s) of the player(s), background music or other audio, etc. It's important to separate these elements, because each potentially implicates a separate copyright holder. When it comes to the game itself, the IP rights belong exclusively to game's publisher (in this case, Valve)—the images, sounds, and underlying code are all wholly owned by Valve and the use of that IP is subject to Valve's policies on the subject. This means that Valve could prevent anyone from streaming its game in any context, in its sole and absolute discretion. However, like most game publishers, Valve has chosen to go an entirely different route, and maintains a blanket policy that people are allowed to stream Dota gameplay. It's good advertising, after all.

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA):

The rights and obligations of parties under the DMCA are somewhat complex, and have been the subject of billion-dollar litigation. For our purposes, the most important aspect of the DMCA is the safe harbor provision, which is intended to shelter service providers from the infringing activities of their users. This provision states that a service provider (such as Twitch) cannot be held liable for copyright infringement on its site if it does not have actual knowledge of the infringement, is not aware of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is apparent, and, upon obtaining such knowledge or awareness, acts expeditiously to remove or disable access to the infringing material.

In theory, this provision makes a hell of a lot of sense. There is way too much content published on Twitch, YouTube, etc. for those sites to constantly scour new posts and determine whether or not they infringe on any of the copyrights that exist in the ether. The DMCA shifts the burden of handling the issue to the content creators themselves through the takedown notice system. However, in order to gain the vital liability protection provided by the DMCA, a service provider must act "expeditiously to remove or disable access to the infringing material" once the copyright holder affirmatively identifies the infringement.

In short, if Twitch receives a takedown notice that checks all of the boxes, they HAVE to take down the content. On the flip side, the content creator can file a counter takedown notice with Twitch and if that checks all of the boxes, Twitch MUST reinstate the content. The process is well articulated in an image tweeted by Twitch VP Justin Wong a few months ago.

With me so far? Ok awesome. Now let's apply your crash course in copyright law to this situation…

Who is the rights holder?

It completely depends about which rights you're talking. ESL is producing the event, and they maintain a wide array of copyrights in and to various elements of that broadcast (overlay, shoulder content, casting, etc.). This means that someone could not simply re-broadcast the ESL stream on another platform. However, that's not what's happening here; instead, third parties are simply broadcasting the same gameplay, which is made available through DotaTV, and adding their own casting, etc. on top of that gameplay. Absent some form of contractual agreement on the subject between Valve and ESL [NOTE: this could exist, though it would be unusual], the rights in and to the actual gameplay and assets are not ESL's to control. The problem is, Valve's stance on the streaming of gameplay from a third party event isn't clear at present…

Valve's Role & Statement:

As noted above, Valve's base policy allows all gameplay to be broadcast. However, there is a wrinkle; Valve's October 13, 2017 statement tackled the issue of broadcasting gameplay from a tournament organized by a third party. This statement was partially quoted in ESL's response to the controversy. I'm going to include the most relevant paragraph below, in full:

To that end, in addition to the official, fully-produced streams from the tournament organizer itself, we believe that anyone should be able to broadcast a match from DotaTV for their audience. However, we don't think they should do so in a commercial manner or in a way that directly competes with the tournament organizer's stream. This means no advertising/branding overlays, and no sponsorships. It also means not using any of the official broadcast's content such as caster audio, camerawork, overlays, interstitial content, and so on. Finally, this is not permission for studios to broadcast each other's events. In general, everyone should play nice together, and we think the boundaries should be pretty clear.

Unfortunately, this statement isn't particularly clear. It does say that "anyone should be able to broadcast a match from DotaTV for their audience," but it also says that such broadcasts cannot be done in a "commercial manner" OR "in a way that directly competes with the tournament organizer's stream." Though they provided more context on what qualifies as commercial ("no advertising/branding overlays, and no sponsorships"), Valve did not define what they mean by "directly competes," and reasonably minds can undoubtedly differ on that point. The caveat at the end of the statement only further muddies the waters—I don't know what qualifies as a "studio" in Valve's eyes, which makes it impossible to tell who is and is not permitted to stream gameplay from another party's event.

Contrary to Valve's concluding sentence, the boundaries aren't particularly clear. And while I appreciate the fact that they've begun to tackle the issue, we're a long way from having clearly articulated rules that will govern these types of issues and how Valve wants them to be resolved.

Applying the current, vague standard to this dispute:

While I hope Valve will further clarify its position moving forward, we still have a present dispute to resolve. Let's go party by party.

Twitch: Anyone blaming Twitch just doesn't get it. The framework of the DMCA functionally requires Twitch to do exactly what it did in this case. A content provider as massive as Twitch needs the liability shield offered by the DMCA. There is simply too much content on Twitch for it to identify all infringing content that it posted on its site—the only way for Twitch to avoid liability is to make sure it "acts expeditiously to remove or disable access to the infringing material" as soon as it is identified by a third party. And while I would like to see the law changed so that a higher bar is set for determining when a claim of infringement is sufficiently valid to result in a takedown, Twitch's actions were the most legally and economically sound option presently available.

ESL: On a basic level, I get it—they have a presumptively lucrative deal with Facebook, and it has to be frustrating to see various Twitch channels pulling in significant viewership based solely on the gameplay from their event. I also think the esports community is absurdly short-sighted and ignorant to the various business dynamics that drive the content they love to consume, and should be far more patient as industry leaders strive to strike the proper balance between monetization and fan demands.

Valve has expressly stated that a third party cannot broadcast content from DotaTV "in a way that directly competes with the tournament organizer's stream," and ESL is interpreting that language to protect its interests. How reasonable is ESL's interpretation? That requires a case-by-case analysis of each takedown request they issued. My cursory review suggests that some probably fit Valve's vague criteria, while others did not. But the core problem here is that the standard itself is vague, leaving room for both sides to be upset because they're interpreting it through their own, self-interested lens.

With that said, absent some form of agreement between Valve and ESL on this issue (which seems unlikely), ESL doesn't have the legal right to have content removed from Twitch based on alleged infringement of IP rights it doesn't hold. The underlying gameplay made available via DotaTV is owned by Valve, not ESL. I recognize that ESL is simply acting based on its interpretation of Valve's statement, but that statement doesn't shift any legal rights from Valve to a tournament organizer; it merely articulates additional principles related to the rights grant made by Valve to stream Dota gameplay. ESL is in a tough position, but from my seat I'm not sure I'd be filing a bunch of takedown notices to solve the problem.

Twitch Streamers: Anyone streaming this type of content needs to make sure they learn the DMCA. If you believe your content was taken down improperly, you have the right to file a counter takedown notice. As has been noted in other threads, you may also have the right to file suit against ESL under 17 U.S.C. § 512(f)(1), which establishes civil liability for any party that "knowingly materially misrepresents under [the DMCA] that material or activity is infringing." Of course, litigation is extremely expensive and time consuming. I'm by no means endorsing this option and think it's incredibly unlikely anyone files suit in this case. I just wanted to point out that it exists and add a statutory reference so people can better understand what this does and does not mean; for example, the people saying ESL reps can go to jail for this aren't well-grounded in reality.

Valve: As the rights holder in this instance, Valve has a great deal at stake in the resolution of the issue. While ESL was merely trying to enforce its understanding of Valve's position, those takedown claims have the potential to threaten Valve's broad and substantial IP rights with respect to the game it publishes. Valve does not want to cede any ownership over their raw gameplay. If they did, they would lose an incredible amount of leverage/control as it relates to the growth and monetization of their game.

The ball is squarely in Valve's court. By far the best way to resolve this dispute and any similar disputes down the road is for Valve to (1) clarify it's policy on what is and is not permitted, and (2) enforce that policy. At present, Valve is putting all competition organizers in an impossible position; assuming for the moment that Valve's policy was clearly articulated and ESL was correct that the Twitch streams shouldn't have been allowed, only Valve is in a position to actually issue those takedown requests to ensure that everyone follows the rules.

[*SIDE NOTE: There have been some very interesting arguments made that a player's actions can be original/transformative, thereby creating some form of independent IP rights in and to gameplay (example 1 and example 2, but these are just theories. There is no court decision on point and I've talked to a handful of 30+ year IP attorneys that see this as a non-starter. Valve owns raw gameplay. Period.]

Reasonable minds can disagree over what policy would be best in this instance. Fans want to consume content on whatever platform and from whatever source they desire, so they will always want the most open policy imaginable. Competition organizers, on the other hand, invest a lot of time and money into their events and don't want their potential monetization undercut by third party broadcasts. Whatever your personal opinion, remember that there are directly competing interests here that may have broader implications for both Dota and the esports industry as a whole.

TL;DR: Copyright law is complex. The DMCA required Twitch to take down the streams once properly noticed by ESL, and the streamers can file counter takedown notices that will allow them to put their streams back up if they believe they have the right to stream this content. ESL's DMCA takedown notices likely aren't appropriate because they don't own the underlying gameplay, but they're in a tough position and I think the hate is largely unfair and misses the nuance of the situation. The core problem here is that Valve's policy is vague. Valve needs to clarify its position on the streaming of gameplay from a third party event, and then actively enforce that policy so that everyone can have clear expectations surrounding what they can and cannot do, thereby enabling them to make informed business decisions from the outset. Also, copyright law is complex.

submitted by /u/esportslaw
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Why Facebook sucks for Dota 2

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 05:23 AM PST

I tried to support the FB thing. Here is why it fails:

  1. Can't pause videos, instead have to close video or mute. Can't rewind / go back in vlog like you can under 'Videos' on Twitch
  2. Constant weird audio bugs - e.g. randomly 3 different videos will start playing, refresh page only fix
  3. Clipping good plays etc requires much more effort ... how do you even do it?
  4. When on Facebook, it is not clear how many channels are live.
  5. Flicking between the two English channels didn't work a number of times
  6. Reduced audience interaction - Twitch chat gives a sense of being in a crowd; FB chat gives a sense of being at a funeral -hide
  7. Real names used in FB means many people don't want to interact
  8. I don't have a FB account - it keeps telling me to sign up. I would rather drink raw sewage. Make the popup go away
  9. FB has highly invasive and unethical practices re data collection and advertising
  10. The core Dota 2 community cannot grow out an eco-system to support dota 2 events on the ESL FB page as well. There are already several forums and video streaming platforms for this; stop splitting the community up.
  11. The Dota 2 Twitch viewer count wont spike as much during these events, lowering overall visibility of Dota 2 to broader Twitch community.

Please consider this for your future events.

Edit update: Others also mentioned stream duration limits; Flash is a problem (ipads, chromecast etc); FB navigation issues; FB stream no mobile support, fullsize video clips edges; Twitch emotes nokappa; VODs flickering; emotes across the video

submitted by /u/Wittyandpithy
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Hello ESL, I'm cancelling my trip to Katowice

Posted: 23 Jan 2018 11:39 PM PST

I bought tickets to the Arena right on the first day, travel tickets, booked a good hotel in downtown, wanted to spend some money over there. Merch, Polish food, visiting local stuff with my wife, having some kurwa good Dota experience.

But thanks to your arrogant bitchy behaviour, you can fuck off. I'm cancelling this whole trip. As you will keep the money I paid for the tickets, you can buy some fake fb viewers to reach the 10k dream.

Viewing on facebook? First I didn't think there would be problem for me as I'm on FB. Didn't even think there would be any issue, I mean you are ESL, this is what you do for living, right? You are a service provider, an organizer, you know what we, the players, need. I tried to watch your stream on fb. It's shit. S H I T. Not the casters, it's the quality of the stream, with all the retarded emojis, delays, kales.

I prefer to have epileptic seizures from twitch memes rather than from those shitty emoticons on fb. No, I don't want to watch it on full screen.

And you just keep shutting down the "rival"? Are you insane?

I was really looking for my first IRL Dota experience, but maybe another time with another organizer.

Anyway, we have to grow up, right?

submitted by /u/piqla
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With all the drama going on, don't forget that the fisrt episode of Well Played, Tobi's game show, is going up today!

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 08:29 AM PST

I nearly forgot it.

Hopefully ESL doesn't copyright it as between-games content or some shit.

Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcYJk_i9bTU

submitted by /u/EcksEcks
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Did MLPdota just got shutdown?

Posted: 23 Jan 2018 08:54 PM PST

whats happening, the channel looks like it got banned/copyright takedown in the middle of EG vs Penta

https://www.twitch.tv/mlpdota

 

edit: they got dmca, https://twitter.com/MLPDotA/status/956027990235930624

 

edit: https://www.twitch.tv/beyondthesummit_pt also got tookdown

 

edit: ESL has made a statement: https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/7skypn/on_streams_from_esl_genting/

Hey,

a lot of you have questions about alternative streams. Heres what I can say on that for today and the following days: Anyone can stream Dota, as Valve stated after TI7, as long as they are community streamers free of commercial interest:

http://blog.dota2.com/2017/10/broadcasting-dota-2

Keeping with these guidelines, and the agreement we have to broadcast ESL One, we are not going to allow any streams that are competing with our main language streams and we cant let streams that monetize content from this tournament stay up.

Best regards,

Jonas "bsl" Vikan, ESL Tournament Director

Basically they acknowledged its well within legal right to stream the games on Twitch and yet they still disregard Valve's broadcasting policy and went ahead with the takedown

 

edit: BSJ has also been taken down https://www.twitch.tv/bananaslamjamma

 

You guys can help by emailing gaben@valvesoftware.com detailing this whole situation, this tournament is part sponsored by Valve and since ESL is blatantly violating Valve's policy on broadcasting, hopefully some actions will be taken

submitted by /u/12Carnation
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huge shoutout to Henry on rawdota for streaming esl games

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 12:51 AM PST

most of you guys might not have heard of him before today but r/learndota2 knows him well from his escaping the trench series. be sure to check out his educational streams and youtube channel to give him some support

submitted by /u/aug16th
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Brazilian BTS got banned on Twitch by streaming ESL ONE

Posted: 23 Jan 2018 08:50 PM PST

Announcing the Open Angel Arena Anniversary Tournament, a custom game tournament with a $10,000+ Prize Pool!

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 09:03 AM PST

The Open Angel Arena team is proud to announce the Open Angel Arena Anniversary Tournament, a custom game tournament with a $10,000+ Prize Pool.

Yes, you read that right. Last weekend we had a fundraiser for our tournament and we were hoping to raise $500. We ended up with $10,349! 100% of that money is going towards the tournaments prize pool.

  • The tournament will take place on the 3rd and 4th of March, starting at 3pm Berlin Time both days.
  • We currently plan on hosting the tournament for 32 teams. Should enough teams sign up then we might expand the tournament to a 64 team bracket.
  • Link to the rules!
  • Link to the sign up! Sign ups close Feb. 10th.
  • The prize pool will be split as follows: First place: 50%; Second place: 25%; Third places: 12.5%

Join the Community Discord to find a team for the tournament and to play games with the best players!

Where do I watch?

The tournament will be streamed on my twitch channel but we'll make another announcement the day of the tournament.

We are also happy to have other streamers cast tournament matches or have players stream their games. Feel free to contact us if we can be of assistance.

What is Open Angel Arena?

Open Angel Arena is a modern reimagining of the classic Angel Arena game mode. It was made by a group of passionate Angel Arena players that grew unhappy with the current iterations on the workshop. So we took it into our own hands to remake the game from scratch, revisiting old features while modernizing and streamlining the gameplay. It is a highly competitive game and there is a lot to learn. If you plan on joining the tournament I recommend you start practicing soon.

  • Most heroes are viable, including supports, casters and tanks. In fact, supports are absolutely essential to many strategies.
  • All items are upgradeable. This allows for a wide range of possible item builds and for an even wider range of possible strategies. Have you ever wanted to play attack damage Elder Titan using the 100% lifesteal talent or use Lunas ultimate to rain death and stuns on an entire team? In Open Angel Arena these strategies are not only possible but actually viable.
  • New custom items, designed by the community and carefully balanced before being added.
  • Bosses have been redesigned to be an integral part of the game and have been made more interesting. To upgrade items you have to kill bosses, often as early as 10 minutes into the game and then regularly for the rest of the match. A killed boss respawns as a new, stronger boss with new abilities. Bosses in OAA have various mechanics that you will have to deal with while battling them and aren't simple DPS tanks.
  • Duels have been redesigned to include objectives that encourage players to fight and enable objective based gameplay. There are multiple different duel arenas that you can be placed into and you will always be playing in a duel. If there is a 1v1 in one arena there is also a 4v4 in a different one and so on.
  • To win the game you must win a Final Duel. The first team to 100 points will trigger a Final Duel. The team with 100 points then needs to win this Final Duel to win the game. If they don't then the games score limit gets extended by 10, putting it into overtime. This goes on until a team wins a Final Duel.
  • Fountain camping has been eliminated from the game.
  • Our custom music is amazing!

Open Angel Arena is an open source project. There's lots of cool stuff we have designed, if you'd like to help create them, check out our GitHub. We are always looking for new people to help with the game. It's a fun experience and if you are a new developer the best experience you can get is to simply work on a game. If you work on Open Angel Arena you can also get feedback on your work by professional developers. You can find the developer discord in the installation instructions on GitHub.

We look forward to having you play in the Open Angel Arena Anniversary Tournament and even if you don't play we hope you enjoy watching it!

What's happening until then?

  • We are still working on the game and a few small features will be added before the tournament. The balance of the game will also be adjusted mildly. But these changes will be made a reasonable time ahead of the tournament so you have at least a few weeks to practice.
  • We will soon release our first custom hero. This hero will not be allowed in the tournament, so don't worry about that. But if you feel like giving some feedback on the guy that would be great and very helpful.
  • In all likelihood we are going to be hosting a second fundraiser soon. This time not all money will go to the prize pool but instead we want to use some of the donations to help push the development of the game by using it for bug bounties and administrative fees like running the website. Donations from this second fundraiser will receive ingame rewards through our upcoming free Bottlepass. The fundraiser will be held on my twitch channel.
  • We have our version of a Battlepass, the Bottlepass, releasing soon. This will include MMR and unlockable cosmetics, some custom made.

We hope you'll give our game a shot. Lots of great and passionate people have worked hard to make it a truly fun and competitive experience!

submitted by /u/CaptainBaumi
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BSJ is streaming ESL GO WTACH GOGOGOGOGO

Posted: 23 Jan 2018 09:42 PM PST

Finally we got our banana in on this to give us insight. GOGOGO https://www.twitch.tv/bananaslamjamma https://www.twitch.tv/bananaslamjamma https://www.twitch.tv/bananaslamjamma

Edit: He got banned boyish PepeHands

submitted by /u/Danzo3366
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[Dota 2 ShowerThought] There should be a Gordon Ramsay-esque Kitchen Nightmares series for Dota where toxic and bad players are confronted by a pro about their poor behaviour and gameplay.

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 04:56 AM PST

If this already exists I would love to see a similar series to what I described

submitted by /u/ShadowNacho
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ESL drama going on... Meanwhile Epicenter is hosting a caster contest with a winner getting a paid trip to Moscow

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 01:20 AM PST

Shoutout to monkeys_forever for strim

Posted: 23 Jan 2018 11:22 PM PST

Even brought in BloodyNine to do some cocasting work. Love him trying his best to catch all the kills around the map and admitting how hard it is to obs.

submitted by /u/yakobis
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While we wait for Valve to respond about MLP, check out RawDotaTV

Posted: 23 Jan 2018 09:25 PM PST

Are you kidding me? This is what our game has come to...

Posted: 23 Jan 2018 09:59 PM PST

Holy shit this BSJ and Monkeys_forever cast is insanely exciting!

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 02:53 AM PST

The game two of Fnatic vs VG series! Im jumping up and down in my seat!

submitted by /u/ShitAintEasy
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Amidst all the drama, I just wanted to thank ESL

Posted: 23 Jan 2018 06:49 PM PST

... For allowing me to discover some new hype Tier 2/3 casters on TWITCH.TV . Wanted to watch some Katowice qualifiers and found Moxxicasts, RobotVice (ppd's bro), and RawDotaTV! All of whom are doing a wonderful job! Keep it up, never back down to to any copyright threats, what you are doing adheres to Valve's broadcasting policy!

Edit: needed to add my boy MLP aswell, he died for this!

submitted by /u/SwindlezzEuls
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StarLadder Minor groups/schedule released

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 05:30 AM PST

Kuroky Meteor Hammer play

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 01:01 AM PST

PPD, Bulldog and MLPdota appreciation thread

Posted: 23 Jan 2018 01:51 PM PST

Thank you for casting the games today.

I hope you guys do the same tomorrow.

submitted by /u/ShowerPhilosopher
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For anyone who wishes to watch ESL Genting English stream but not through Facebook, try Huomao as an alternative!

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 02:52 AM PST

http://www.huomao.com/9752

Huomao owns full broadcasting rights to everything ESL so it has no risk of being taken down. I understand not everyone has the best experience with Chinese stream sites but no harm giving it a try!

If you see text scrolling across the screen, turn off the thing with 'å¼¹'.

Edit: there's only one English stream and it has ended now that Newbee VS TNC is over. Go to Rawdota for the final game between VG Fnatic. Try here again tomorrow!

submitted by /u/Hush---
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Doing a "recast" of the ESL Genting games from today for the games that aren't EU friendly.

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 04:52 AM PST

So I've missed a bunch of games because of sleep and work. So I'm going to recast some of the games from today on my stream, at least until I'm banned by ESL LUL.

Anyway, come join. I'm trying to get in to casting after doing it for TF2 for a while anyway so it's good practice.

http://twitch.tv/warhuryeah

submitted by /u/WARHURYEAH
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Okay i didnt think it could possibly be that bad and i wanted to watch the matches, but the overlay ruins it. It takes up half the screen on my phone! If im forced to use this, at least make it usable..

Posted: 23 Jan 2018 08:42 PM PST

Universe toss to save EE from duel

Posted: 24 Jan 2018 02:50 AM PST

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