Hearthstone - Streamer Sundays Weekly Discussion

11/27/2017 02:49:00 pm
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Hearthstone - Streamer Sundays Weekly Discussion

Streamer Sundays Weekly Discussion

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 04:11 PM PST

Do you enjoy watching streamers? Do you wish there was an easier way to find new up-and-coming streamers beyond the well-known, established Twitch goliaths?

Do you have a stream yourself? Are you looking to get exposure but not sure how given how Twitch displays streams and how one-shot stream promotion posts on Reddit tend to get ignored? Is anyone still reading these questions?

This thread is for you!

If you are a streamer or know of a cool, lesser-known (read: doesn't regularly pull in 1K+ viewers) streamer feel free to post the URL and a short, informative pitch about why you feel others would be interested to watch it. Why should someone watch your suggested stream rather than one of the hundreds of other streams out there?

The next great streamer might be just one comment away.

Enjoy!

Note: I am a bot. Questions or feedback regarding this thread? Message the moderators.

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[Reveal] [Kobolds] 9 Mana 3/9 - Voidlord

Posted: 26 Nov 2017 02:00 AM PST

[Reveal] [Kobolds] [Rogue] 4 Mana 4/4 - Fal'dorei Strider

Posted: 26 Nov 2017 09:00 AM PST

We still dont have a legendary totem.

Posted: 26 Nov 2017 03:34 AM PST

Every tribe has one but totems dont.

Totem lives matter everyone

submitted by /u/Darth_S0t0TR
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Hunter vs Priest, Removal in a Nutshell.

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 08:12 PM PST

Don't worry guys, Control Hunter is going to be a thing... someday

submitted by /u/Azonem
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TIL Nozdormu's fog effect stacks.

Posted: 26 Nov 2017 09:01 AM PST

https://i.imgur.com/WmA9dXp.jpg

It wasn't actually easy to set this up with no visibility and 15 seconds per turn. gg /u/samcoy

submitted by /u/Hectic_
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Dog's infinite value!

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 06:56 PM PST

Whale voting with wallet

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 02:30 PM PST

Hello everyone,

I'll have a TL;DR at the bottom of the thread.

I'm going to try and organize this as much as I can but it may just end up being rant, so I apologize in advance for that.

Let me start off by saying that I am a whale who has spent over $12,000 on this game over the past 2 years. That comes to spending around $14 a day on Hearthstone which imo has been well worth it, but just not for the past couple of months.

Now that I have the proof out of the way (Didn't include Battle net tag for obvious reasons - can PM mods to verify if needed).

Background:

I found out about Hearthstone by stumbling upon reynad's stream and I just instantly fell in love with it. I had never played a card game before but this just seemed like my calling and I dove right in.

This was around the The Grand Tournament time and so I think I entered a good time. The inspire effects were absolutely magical and before long I had already opened my first couple hundred packs to amass a collection. I also printed out all the cards with their info so I could make decks around them and it was truly an exciting couple of months for me.

In short, I absolutely loved the game and do not regret the time I have put in. Or at least I didn't, until the past 2 expansions. They've just been... underwhelming to say the least. Now to move onto my concerns:

Concerns:

  • Balance changes: I cannot stress enough how big of a factor these have played in me making this decision. The biggest advantage Hearthstone has over other card games is that it is completely virtual. There is NO reason that being able to roll out changes to cards shouldn't be much more quicker. I remember the oppressive Pirate decks, the annoying Secret Paladins, the absolutely game breaking Jade Druid (which still exists).
  • Actual card changes: When card changes do occur (usually when it's been a couple weeks too long with the broken meta)... then it's changes to cards that give the least amount of dust refunds to people. This was exceptionally obvious when everyone was expecting Ultimate Infestation and Jade Druid to be nerfed but Blizzard ended up nerfing cards that were disenchantable. It is quite clear that they're trying to get people the least amount of dust refunds that they can give. It's especially harder for whales like me when we've been holding onto cards for several months and just wait for nerfs before we can disenchant. However, it's even worse for players that already have a low amount of dust.
  • New player experience: It is no secret that the new player experience is absolutely horrible. Despite having several whale friends, whenever I want to invite a friend to hearthstone, they absolutely hate the experience, especially when they find out they'll have to dump several hundreds if not thousands of dollars just to compete with us and other players.
  • Transparency: It seems like Blizzard is really good at making sure that the least amount of information is conveyed to give an answer just "good enough" to answer a question. This includes reasoning behind nerfing cards to upcoming balance changes.
  • Golden cards: It really does suck knowing that even after spending countless hours and several thousands of dollars, that I'm not even 1/3'rd of the way to a full golden collection. I have around 215,000 Dust on the disenchant button and have crafted countless Golden legendaries and epics. Here is a picture from my Hearthpwn collection page: I have pretty much given up hope of getting a full golden collection especially now that there are 3 full expansions instead of the Adventure and 2 expansions like before. This has increased cost dramatically.
  • Preference: It is clear that the business model is aimed at getting new players to spend money on an expansion and to milk as much money as possible. Instead of preferring to make current and older players happy and listening to our requests.

Possible solutions:

  • Make the new player experience better. It's too expensive, time consuming for new players to enjoy Hearthstone and amass a full collection.
  • Make prices better. That is as simply as I can put it. Despite having spent $12,000+ on the game already, I'm still only at 1/3'rd of a full golden collection and that feeling truly sucks. Despite the Legendary no-duplicate change, the cost of an expansion over an adventure is still much larger.
  • Please for the love of God, communicate more with us. Although this has been something you've improved over the past couple of months, it's still not enough. If you're planning on a nerf, LET US KNOW! If you're planning on an update, LET US KNOW! If you're not planning on fixing a broken meta, just LET US KNOW! We'd love to stay in the loop and knowing exact timelines and when to expect stuff instead of just SOONTM would be really great.

What I'm going to do:

I'm not going to spend another dollar on this game until it gets better for everyone. This game deserves better. We deserve better. I'm going to vote with my wallet, and so are my friends. Us whales are taking the first step, are you going to join us to save the game we love?

TL;DR: Me & my whale friends will not be pre-ordering or spending any money on packs this expansion until things change for the better. I've personally spent over $12,000 on this game and I spend around $1.5-2k per expansion and so do my friends. I address my concerns above and what really needs to change. I also know people dislike whales, but we've heard you loud and clear and we'd like to start the change. Voting with your wallet really does matter, and we're taking the first steps.

I'm sorry about the long rant, but I really do truly care about Hearthstone and cannot watch it burn down like this.

submitted by /u/jamsi
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[Reveal] [Kobolds] 4 Mana 5/6 - Hoarding Dragon

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 07:03 PM PST

New Warlock Card - Voidlord

Posted: 26 Nov 2017 02:01 AM PST

Rarity: Epic

Mana: 9

Attack: 3

Health: 9

Text: Taunt. Deathrattle: Summon three 1/3 demons with taunt.

Tribe: Demon

https://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/attachments/57/810/voidlord.png

submitted by /u/Parish87
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[K&C] New Rogue Epic Minion - Fal'dorei Strider

Posted: 26 Nov 2017 09:00 AM PST

Why is Bonemare still un-nerfed?

Posted: 26 Nov 2017 03:27 AM PST

It's run in almost all of the T1 decks. There is no good counter to it (the counter of 'dominating board' is not a counter). It gives you 2 minions to deal with, both of which are outside of even Flamestrike range.

I'm sick of seeing the card. It's so fucking easy to use and so difficult to deal with.

submitted by /u/kdoasf
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[K&C] New Priest Epic Card Revealed by Reynad: Psychic Scream!

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 12:01 PM PST

Psychic Scream

Class: Priest

Card type: Spell

Rarity: Epic

Mana cost: 7

Card text: Shuffle all minions into your opponent's deck.

Source: Reynad Youtube Channel

submitted by /u/Sonserf369
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NONE of you are seeing King Togwaggle's true combo

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 07:43 PM PST

Wait until opponent has 0 cards in their hand

play King Togwaggle

follow it up with Mind Vision

BOOM! Now both of you have king's ransom. If your opponent gets there deck back, then you can un-do that and keep their deck for the rest of the game! It's a true ransom

submitted by /u/jnpg
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Kripparian Soundboard Added new Sounds

Posted: 26 Nov 2017 07:01 AM PST

Reward and Stagnation in HS

Posted: 26 Nov 2017 02:46 AM PST

I originally posted this in this thread but someone wanted me to make a seperate post for it, so here goes. D:

The game's reward system can be quite taxing or emotionally draining to exploit fully. Personally, I believe it probably puts more people off of the game than it encourages people to buy packs. Let's take a quick look at the numbers:

[1 Daily Quest]: I honestly feel like these are better than they were when the game first came out. The rewards seem to be more frequently above 40g and have moved from always being about winning games to playing certain types of cards.

Sometimes these quests will push people to play the game in new and fun ways. This increases the fun/excitement of the game and raises the positivity of people towards the game...
...but only when the quest system works. Often people will find themselves hitting a wall where they can't complete their quest in a reasonable amount of time due to a lack of cards. Othertimes people will make a throwaway deck to only cycle through their quest objective because they're that desperate to collect the gold. Which is very much a psychological trap that will cause a lot of frustration and possible negativity towards the game.

[Daily 100g 10g/3 wins]: Let's assume you're playing an aggro deck and you're going to win half your games today. At five minutes per game, ten minutes per win, you will hit your daily cap in FIVE HOURS.

I feel like this part of the reward system fails players the most for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, unless things have changed recently (and they totally might have, I apologise if my information is out of date,) realistically you have to play constructed to farm your win gold. Because of this people will feel pressure to play Hearthstone in a very specific way or "cheat" themselves out of perceived progress. Which in turn leads to frustrated or negative playtime where people are simply trying to "level up" their account.
Secondly, five hours is an awfully long time. Not a problem on its own but could become a problem if people feel insufficiently rewarded for time spent playing. I'll go into this in more detail at the end.

[Tavern Brawl]: Unique game modes? Limited edition? Tailor made each week? Free card pack? How could I have anything bad to say about it? Well... the reward is amazing, a card pack for a 20min game, only the luckiest of daily quests are this rewarding. However, maybe for a person who isn't very good at Hearthstone but desperately wants that card pack it can be a negative experience. Spending hours of their lives doing things they don't enjoy to get this 100 dust they so desperately want. :P

I think tavern brawls are super cool and give people new ways to enjoy the game. I think it's great they exist and get people excited about Hearthstone. Great for the game, probably great for business. (There's got to be some correlation between the experience and people buying packs.) But: would it have the same impact without the card pack prize? I think it probably would.

I'm not saying we take the card pack away, that pack generates so much goodwill. I'm simply suggesting it be moved to a more general weekly reward so no one feels obligated to do the thing™.

[Arena]: Finally there's arena, where the initiated play on autopilot for hours on end and the uninitated literally get ground into dust. Arena offers players the ability to obtain cards/gold in quantities impossible in other game modes and is what allows people to have truly free to play accounts. There's still a huge time cost to that, a run can take hours, and variance can also play a big factor. I really like it, it's a very different experience to constructed and helps round out the game as a whole. In my first week of playing I bought myself some arena runs because I was unwilling to buy packs, now it's where I go when I want to avoid buying packs.

Back on topic:
You're looking at 50g for each "day" played, (generously) 20g for each hour played and 1 pack per week.
Again, I will generously assume the mid-point as a person who plays 2 hours a day and completes their quest.

Between 0-7-11 packs per week for 0-14-35 hours invested.

What kinds of collections do (non-arena, f2p) players have half-way (8 weeks) into an expansion cycle and what have they invested?

0-56-88 packs, 0-112-280 hours

Using this guide

That translates to:
0%-70%-100% of rares
0%-22%-40% of epics
0%-14%-22% of legendaries (you now get some legendary freebies and the no duplicates makes a massive difference(cba to math completely but at least 50%) relative to the graph.

So, you could play for 300 hours and not have a whole lot to show for it. More worryingly, a person could spend a whole days wages and not have too much to show for it either.

Which finally brings me back to the issue I had with the daily 100g.

Reward and Stagnation:

As people play they improve their level/cards/rank/knowledge etc. These moving factors make sure the game itself is always changing and provide games/goals/objectives of their own. This keeps the game fresh and stops people from getting bored.

Over time, players' levels/ranks/knowledge will progress much slower or be nearly static. This leaves cards as the way to keep the game fresh. New sets can bring new challenges and intricacies to the game for everyone not just for those who have the cards. But as a player's experience builds, the cycle with which they plateau gets shorter.

Acquiring new cards becomes important, but the time and cost needed to make any meaningful change in a player's collection is high. As a consequence of this people feel obliged to play towards the goal of getting new cards which often results in them playing in stagnant, boring ways they've done many times before. A generous estimate for doing this without stacking/trading quests is 8 hours of time invested per epic. Even an investment of 100s of hours and purchasing a pre-order would leave them quite light on an expansion.

I feel like these combined conditions ultimately create a frustrating, negative play experience as people try to get to the next new thing. This might encourage people to buy packs at first, but if they're paying a new AAA game release's price for packs AND grinding for 100s of hours and coming up short then they aren't getting the emotional payoff they wanted for the investment.

In the case where the created frustration is deliberate. (Purchased) Packs offer very little release to said frustration (and discourage customer retention.) Please give us more value from packs (to offset this and encourage people to buy packs more often).
In the case where the frustration isn't deliberate. Letting people gain cards in a more natural way, with higher rewards and/or rewards you can obtain in non-constraining ways would give players more freedom and create a more positive experience. Please give us more rewards/pack value.

In either case it seems like a buff to the value of a card pack would be an elegant way of smoothing over people's grievances.

TL;DR

Player progression is what stops an experience getting stale. They can expand their cards/understanding/rank/w/e.
As people play more most of these factors start to level off. Cards become more important as a way to keep the game "new".
Expansions offer new challenges to everyone, but with experience these are overcome more quickly and cards are again more important.
This leads to people feeling obligated to play towards getting more stuff. However, the ways in which people can acquire this are often repetivite, restricting and may feel like a chore. This leads to them forcing a negative experience on themselves to get ahead or otherwise feel guilty whilst playing. In addition, the impact on a purchase of card packs feels low compared to the cost, so both free and paid players end up feeling frustrated. Increasing the value of the contents of each pack would "smooth over" these problems.

EDIT: Unhappy to have removed the bolded text from my 33% bolded text monstrosity! Thanks to u/sabreblade11 for helping out with a quick TL;DR to replace it.

submitted by /u/xZiGGY
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With cards like Psychic Scream, at some point in Wild priest will be able to make a Reno deck that is 25+ Area of Effect removal cards.

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 12:23 PM PST

Maybe include only a few cards as a win condition like Shadowreaper, Raza, Reno. Spend the rest of the game torturing your opponent removing everything he plays.

submitted by /u/OhLegit
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Trump reads his opponents mind

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 02:32 PM PST

I predicted Psychic Scream 9 months ago!

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 02:42 PM PST

https://www.reddit.com/r/customhearthstone/comments/5vu7a6/recyclone_druid_boardclear

Different class and name, but it's the exact same effect with the exact same cost.

submitted by /u/sethel99
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Priest is gonna be nuts next season

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 10:43 PM PST

raza? shadowkeeper anduin? kazakus? psychic scream? dustbreaker? highlander priest is gonna be insane next season...keep you arses clenched until next april my friends

submitted by /u/ronalddrumpf445
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I'm not quitting hearthstone because of the cost or because the new player experience sucks. I'm quitting because I feel like how well I play has no almost no bearing on whether or not i win or lose.

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 11:14 PM PST

I'm quitting because the game has become so deeply RNG dependent that i don't feel like i'm winning because of anything i did right, i feel like I'm winning only because my opponent drew wrong or i drew right. Just look at the prevalence of high roll decks. Big priest? If you get barnes/y'sharaj on 4, the game is effectively over 95% of the time. Quest mage? Quite literally unbeatable if it draws right/ opponent doesnt have dirty rat or eater of secrets? Silence priest? I beat someone yesterday by hitting them with a 32/32 razorleaf on turn 4. Tempo rogue? You might as well just concede after coin keleseth shadowstep keleseth on turn 1. Decisions i make throughout the match just seem to such a low impact on whether or not i win or lose. In 90% of my matches, i might as well be playing solitaire against a CPU. Meanwhile, the dev team sees fit to try and fix these problems by printing cards like Duskbreaker and Psychic Scream. I'm just glad im walking away only a few hundred in the hole.

submitted by /u/NiceTanHalberstram
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Dog attempting to Evolve into a Quest Mage counter

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 04:47 PM PST

Non-bonemare 12-0 Arena Run

Posted: 26 Nov 2017 05:39 AM PST

Proof and decklist

I just had my first 12-0 run and don't really have friends I talk to in HS lol so I wanted to share it here. Just one example that shows that it indeed can be done with 0 bonemares and scalebanes.

The deck itself was nothing too crazy. MVP cards were Despicable Dreadlord (of course :P), The Black Knight which nearly always hit a good target, and to my surprise Volcanosaur which non-jokingly is pretty good with cannot be targeted adapt and windfury or + 3health, especially when you're ahead. Oh and DOOM saved my ass a few times as well.

Thanks for reading and good luck on your runs!

submitted by /u/hsstreamer
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Why is priest always getting these annoying cards

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 02:36 PM PST

Ever since people complained about priest being too weak they're just getting all these cards that just feel frustrating to play against I don't know what to say.

submitted by /u/BREU
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My turn to rant

Posted: 25 Nov 2017 02:21 PM PST

Ok this has been a long time coming, but I just need to get it out. I don't care if this gets downvoted to hell, there's just some things you can't bottle up.

When you play Spiritsinger Umbra she says slowly "the greatest virtue... Is patience". Yet what does the card text say? "Whenever you summon a minion, trigger its deathrattle". This is inherently an impatient effect, because instead of waiting for your minions to die. You're triggering their deathrattles right when you summmon them.

I'm sick of the inconsistent card design and am going f2p as of today.

submitted by /u/NotCurlyFries
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