Unlabelled Dota 2 - Dota 2 Asia Championships 2018 Day 5 Match Discussions

4/04/2018 02:27:00 am
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Dota 2 - Dota 2 Asia Championships 2018 Day 5 Match Discussions

Dota 2 Asia Championships 2018 Day 5 Match Discussions

Posted: 02 Apr 2018 06:09 PM PDT

Dota 2 Asia Championships 2018

Presented by Perfect World & PGL

Sponsored by Lenovo, DXRacer, Nvidia GeForce, SteelSeries, Samsung, BLASOUL & ofo

Need info on the event? Check out the Survival Guide

See here for Day 4 and Tiebreaker Discussions

Coverage

Liquipedia | JoinDota | GosuGamers | Dotabuff | Eventvods

Streams

English | Russian | RuHub | RuHub 2 | Chinese

Schedule

Day 5 (Tuesday April 3)

ID Team vs Team Result Cntdwn (SGT) PDT EDT BST CEST SGT AEST Frmt
B1 vs 10:00 19:00 22:00 3:00 4:00 10:00 12:00 Bo3
B2 vs 13:00 22:00 1:00 6:00 7:00 13:00 15:00 Bo3
B3 vs 16:00 1:00 4:00 9:00 10:00 16:00 18:00 Bo3
B4 vs 19:00 4:00 7:00 12:00 13:00 19:00 21:00 Bo3

Pre-show Panel: Redeye & Jack & Winter & Fogged

Breakout Match 1: Evil Geniuses vs Newbee

Game 1 Winner:
Game 2 Winner:
Game 3 Winner:

Result:   2:0  

Match thread

VOD

Casters: Tobi & Kyle

Panel: Redeye & Jack & Winter & Fogged

Breakout Match 2: Team Liquid vs VGJ.Thunder

Game 1 Winner:
Game 2 Winner:
Game 3 Winner:

Result:   2:0  

Match thread

VOD

Casters: OD Pixel & Fogged

Panel: Redeye & Jack & Winter & Kyle

Breakout Match 3: OpTic Gaming vs Invictus Gaming

Game 1 Winner:
Game 2 Winner:
Game 3 Winner:

Result:   2:0  

Match thread

VOD

Casters: KotLGuy & Lacoste

Panel: Redeye & Jack & Winter & Capitalist

Breakout Match 4: Team Secret vs Vici Gaming

Game 1 Winner:
Game 2 Winner:
Game 3 Winner:

Result:   0:2  

Match thread

VOD

Casters: Blitz & Capitalist

Panel: Redeye & Jack & Winter & Lacoste

Countdown times are in SGT. All times are subject to change based on the length of matches and delays.

submitted by /u/D2TournamentThreads
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The Virgin Support Bounty VS. The Chad Hard Carry Rikimaru

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 04:38 AM PDT

Rubick's Cube 2.0

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 04:09 AM PDT

Is laning stage becoming disproportionately important in current DotA?

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 09:02 AM PDT

If you have watched the panels in recent LANs, analysts have been very vocal about the importance of laning stage in the current meta. Blitz and more recently, Kyle have pointed out that if a team loses all 3 lanes, the game becomes impossible to win. The gravity of statement, although seems quite trivial at first, can't be understated. If you were lucky enough to watch Wings at their prime, circa TI6, you would know that Wings frequently lost the laning stage. But their teamfight co-ordination was so extraordinary that almost always they would make a comeback in the midgame. TI6 Wings are my most favorite team ever. Their teamfighting was pure poetry. Blitz's statement made me wonder if a team such as Wings (that is average laning stage, great at other stages) could've found any success in the current meta considering the importance of laning stage.

I was interested in quantifying how much exactly. In order to do so, I looked at the playoff matches of the most recent 3 majors and see if any team had managed to win when they lost more lanes than they won. What I observed, thanks to OpenDota's story of laning stage, is surprising to say the least. I will try to document what I found briefly-

Lane score- So, I have formatted the score as Win-Draw-Lose. That is if I write a team's score is 1-1-1 that means they won 1 lane, drew even in 1 and lost the other according to OpenDota's metrics.

DAC

VG vs Secret:

Game 1: VG's Lane Score 1-2-0. VG won. Game 2: VG won 2-1-0. VG won the game as well.

Optic vs IG:

Game 2: Optic's score 1-1-1. Optic won. Game 1: 2-1-0 for Optic. Optic won.

Liquid vs VGJ:

Game 1: Liquid crushed the lanes 3-0-0. Liquid won. Game 2: The lane score is 1-1-1. Liquid won.

EG vs Newbee:

Game 1: EG's lane score 2-1-0. EG won. Game 2: 1-2-0 for EG and they won.

The Bucharest Major:

VP vs Optic:

Game 1: 1-1-1 for VP. VP won. Game 2: 1-1-1 for VP. VP won.

VP vs Liquid:

Game 1: 2-1-0 for VP. Vp won. Game 2: 1-1-1 for VP. VP lost. Game 3: 2-0-1 for VP. VP won.

VP vs VCJ:

Game 1: 2-0-1 for VP. VP won. Game 2: 2-1-0 for VP. VP won. Game 3: 2-1-0 for VP. VP won.

VCJ vs TnC:

Game 1: 1-1-1 for VCJ. VCJ won. Game 2: 1-2-0 for VCJ. VCJ won.

Newbee vs Secret:

Game 1: 1-1-1 for Newbee. Newbee won. Game 2: 1-1-1 for Newbee. Newbee won.

EG vs Liquid:

Game 1: 2-1-0 for Liquid. Liquid won. Game 2: 0-0-3 for Liquid. Liquid lost. Game 3: 2-0-1 for Liquid. Liquid won.

The Katowice Major:

VP vs EG:

Game 1: 0-3-0 for VP. VP won. Game 2: 0-1-2 for VP. VP lost. Game 3: 1-1-1 for VP. VP won.

VP vs Fnatic:

Game 1: 2-1-0 for VP. VP won. Game 2: 1-1-1 for VP. VP won.

VP vs VG:

Game 1: 2-1-0 for VP. VP won. Game 2: 1-2-0 for VP. VP won. Game 3: 0-1-2 for VP. VP lost. Game 4: 1-2-0 for VP. VP won.

Liquid vs Fnatic:

Game 1: 2-1-0 for Liquid. Liquid won. Game 2: 0-1-2 for Liquid. Liquid lost. Game 3: 2-1-0 for Liquid. Liquid won.

Liquid vs VG:

Game 1: 3-0-0 for Liquid. Liquid Lost. Game 2: 1-1-1 for Liquid. Liquid lost.

Liquid vs Secret:

Game 1: 2-0-1 for Liquid. Liquid won. Game 2: 0-3-0 for Liquid. Liquid lost. Game 3: 2-1-0 for Liquid. Liquid won.

My Takeaway:

Out of the 37 games (over 17 series) I looked at the data for, only 1 team managed to win despite negative Lane Score. That's VG against Liquid in Katowice in game 1 of their series. By negative lane score I mean 0-2-1 or 0-1-2 or 0-0-3 score. That's quite damning.

Now you might say, laning is very important. Makes sense that winning lanes should transition into winning games. But is this much dominance of laning stage over other stages of the game desirable? Not for me as a viewer.

There's a deeper problem stemming directly from this disproportionate importance of laning stage. Weak/easily pressurable laners like Spectre, Slark, Riki, Clinkz, Alch, Zeus, AM, WK, Drow are hardly being picked despite the various buffs IF has bestowed upon them over the last few patches. Note that I am not saying that all strong laners are meta picks. Lich and Undying are the notable such heroes who are not being picked despite being lane winners.

My point in all of this is that I fear, if this trend continues Deathball will truly make its full on comeback. Nobody wants to see another TI4 finals. I don't enjoy high ground turtling but this dominance of one dimensional strategy of "win lanes-> group up-> win fight-> take rosh-> mow down towers-> win games" is also worrying me. Gyro, Razor, DP and DK are the kings of current meta precisely because they fit this strategy better than all other heroes. Therefore, 2 patches worth of nerfs have not really affected their popularity.

I am a shitty dota player and I am not good enough to figure out what are the reasons that's leading to this skewed importance of laning stage. What do you guys think?

submitted by /u/TheDragonRebornEMA
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PPD says that the NA Dota is the best

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 01:42 AM PDT

Secret.SunBhie on Discord: "Team atmosphere is healthy"

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 07:22 AM PDT

DAC's Breakout Stage

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 04:33 AM PDT

Radiant 8-0. Frog please.

submitted by /u/le_halfhand_easy
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Kyle, please become fulltime caster/analyst

Posted: 02 Apr 2018 11:25 PM PDT

You are one of the best casters/analysts I know, really enjoy your conversation with others, especially your energy. It will never be boring when you are talking. Man, please work fulltime as a caster/analyst.

submitted by /u/mtuan93
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My wife and I play a lot of dota, and our wedding was this week. Here’s our cake.

Posted: 02 Apr 2018 04:54 PM PDT

Just noticed i played a game with optic.33 6 years ago against bots.

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 01:36 AM PDT

CCnC with game winning Cheese swap

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 01:34 AM PDT

Resolut1on Interview, "If you're not playing, someone else does and he'll get better than you". Few days before leaving OG.

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 06:23 AM PDT

[Post Match Thread] VG VS Secret

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 04:32 AM PDT

VG 2-0 Secret

Radiant 8-0

submitted by /u/dranix14
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Kyle going off on Newbee's drafting skills

Posted: 02 Apr 2018 08:39 PM PDT

LOL GET EM SWINDLEMELONS

submitted by /u/MiT_Epona
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I drew Phantom Assassin

Posted: 02 Apr 2018 09:50 PM PDT

PSA: If you're smurfing you should not complain about your teammates.

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 05:57 AM PDT

Really.

What the hell did you expect by playing with a smurf account? Better teammates?

submitted by /u/thamaverick
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today is important day

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 09:42 AM PDT

AdmiralBuddlog happy

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 05:21 AM PDT

Major flaws with the report system that are particularly relevant to how common intentional feeding is in higher MMR games

Posted: 02 Apr 2018 10:23 PM PDT

I'll make this as short as possible: if you report or commend someone, you can't report or commend them again for over a month, which is WAY too long (you'll get a message that says "You have already submitted feedback for this player"). Also, if someone abandons a game, you can't report or commend anyone unless you stay until the game ends.

When you're anywhere in the Divine 5 bracket, but especially in, say, the top 500, it's not uncommon to play with or against the same player several times in a given day. In other words, if the same player decides to intentionally feed on your team more than once within several weeks, they avoid at least one report, even if they've already been to low priority since you last reported them.

What's even worse is that commends and reports seem to be treated exactly the same by this system. The other day, someone on my team commended me, so I commended them back because they played well. I had them on my team again the next day, and 40 minutes into that game, they bought back, destroyed their items, and went AFK. I was then unable to report them because I'd "already submitted feedback for this player" (I specifically went and confirmed that I hadn't reported/commended that player recently other than when I'd commended them the previous day, so it was definitely because of that). I now never commend anyone I don't recognize, because all it does is make them immune to my reports.

It was mentioned in the thread posted earlier that the same player ran down mid from the beginning of the game four times in one day, and that it was shown on different streams (ixmike/ush). I guarantee that the player in question had some of the same teammates multiple times in those games, or that someone in at least one of the games did the rest of their teammates a favor by abandoning, leading to an intentional feeder not being reported.

submitted by /u/ESSL_Officer
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I know the reason for Chinese dota team results...

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 01:26 AM PDT

They want to get Sansheng warding guides for all the western teams.

submitted by /u/egtheboys
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Why do you have to manually click on 'get challenges' for EVERY hero? Why don't you just automatically get challenges for all heroes every 2 weeks?

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 03:37 AM PDT

The two week timer for getting new challenges doesn't start until you manually click 'get challenges'. This means you can have some heroes with 10 days left until new challenges, some with 2 days, and others with 14 days.

I have no idea why you just don't receive challenges for every hero at the same time at the start of each fortnight, so they can't refresh at the same time.

submitted by /u/Gr4b
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You are Playing Against NA

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 01:30 AM PDT

You are playing against NA Dota.

You do not ban AA because you can beat it.

NA instantly picks AA.

You lose against NA.

You don't ban AA next time you play against NA because you're China.

You lose again.

submitted by /u/LogicKennedy
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Still in beta btw

Posted: 02 Apr 2018 06:17 PM PDT

[Post Match Thread] Optic VS IG

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 01:35 AM PDT

OG 2-0 IG

Dota Western Championships /s

submitted by /u/dranix14
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RIP techies

Posted: 03 Apr 2018 02:08 AM PDT

[Post Match Thread] EG vs Newbee

Posted: 02 Apr 2018 08:37 PM PDT

EG 2 - 0 Newbee

Punks = satisfied

Names = engraved

submitted by /u/QueueTee314
[link] [comments]

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