Unlabelled True Gaming Do most obscurely hidden secrets in games actually get discovered organically?

2/08/2018 07:17:00 am
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True Gaming Do most obscurely hidden secrets in games actually get discovered organically?

Do most obscurely hidden secrets in games actually get discovered organically?

Posted: 07 Feb 2018 05:12 AM PST

Where I'm coming from: In Celeste there are these collectibles that are so deeply hidden in the game that I couldn't for the life of me imagine a significant number of people just oranically discovering them in the course of their playthroughs without anyone cluing them in on the secret.

I know of course that across the millions of potential gamers all over the world through the years, someone might possibly just stumble across a very well hidden secret. Anything is possible. But for some secrets... I just can't see the sequence of events to get you to that point.

Which got me wondering... Do most similarly-obscure hidden secrets in games actually get discovered organically? Like crouching in Mario 3 to get to the background and finding the whistle... Mega Man X Hadouken... I mean even the classic Up-Up-Down-Down-B-A-B-A-Select-Start...

submitted by /u/SkoivanSchiem
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How viable would a "Super Mario World" progression structure be for modern games?

Posted: 07 Feb 2018 06:53 AM PST

I'm a fanboy of Super Mario World for a variety of reasons, and one of the biggest is its progression structure. I already made a post about that before, but this time, I would like to like to ask a related question:

Would it be feasible for games of any genre to adopt Super Mario World's overall structure in these times? Considering there's this present duality between open world and linearity and there have been backlashes to either side, if not towards the duality as a whole, I feel that doing what Super Mario World did with overall structure would do wonders in combining the best of both worlds.

When I mean "Super Mario World structure", there are six core criteria that I am looking for:

  • There is a definite beginning and end to the overall world.

  • You have to clear an individual area/level's goal to move to the next area on the path.

  • There are multiple paths in the overall world from the beginning to the end, branching and recombining at certain points.

  • You have to actively search for these alternate routes; it shouldn't be as simple as being presented with a fork in the road and choosing left or right.

  • You don't strictly have to complete every area/level just to beat the game.

  • You're free to go back to earlier areas to search for paths to different areas and/or other secrets.

If I recall, the closest things to this sort of progression (if not fitting it completely) in the current and past gen would be BioWare's seventh-gen output (Mass Effect OT and Dragon Age: Origins) and the Soulsborne series.

Still, with all of the complaints of both linear and open world games, I think those six criteria would be a nice alternative to either extreme. You have a clear focused goal, you're allowed to explore and find secrets, and many of those secrets are sets of environments with their own unique combinations of obstacles and enemies (as opposed to, say, 50 money or 20 exp or something).

However, I recognize that there are some limitations on implementing this kind of structure with any budget. For example, making a wide variety of focused, well-crafted levels wouldn't be too conducive to "filler", something of a necessary evil with big budgets and the desire to make games long as possible. Also, graphics and advertising considered, a game with SMW structure could seem too short unless a potentially unrealistic amount of money is poured into design.

So with all of these benefits and drawbacks, could any modern game, from indie to AAA and of any genre, implement a "Super Mario World structure" for the overall game? I feel it would be very nice to see but would understand if it isn't ideal in the current climate.

submitted by /u/3rdOption
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An attempt to debunk the "Why is Denuvo Bad" article by Lecaire.

Posted: 07 Feb 2018 07:43 AM PST

This article seems to get used as a talking points list by people trying to popularize a boycott of Denuvo enabled titles.

I find parts of it honestly very out there and some points just plain wrong.

.

If you have a problem with your payment method on a later game purchase, your account will be disabled blocking all your Denuvo games from working. Steam support is notoriously slow to respond so your account may be disabled for weeks or months. Supporting the ability of platforms to disable your entire game library is anti-consumer.

You will also loose the ability to download any Steam game (Denuvo or not) that you have not installed momentarily and all online functionality stops working. And yet, you are still buying games that rely on Steam or other services I assume?!

Denuvo stops games from supporting Linux or OS X.

Unless you are a hardcore Linux fanatic I bet my left ball that you own Windows only titles or console only titles. Some of the Windows only titles will not run well enough under Wine and (nearly) none of the console exclusive titles can be played under Linux or MacOS.

Honestly by this point, if anybody wants to play core games on PC they should just have Windows installed (at least as a second boot).

Denuvo games require reactivation if you haven't played them in a while or if you change any of your computer's hardware, and you must authenticate with Denuvo servers every time you receive an update (Simply allowing Steam to update is not enough. You must also open the game once while connected to the internet after each update). They don't require always online, but they do require sometimes online. Some people don't believe this, so here's proof: http://i.imgur.com/hm32xle.png

This is from a user that left it in offline mode for a week or so and didn't play it. This wasn't their first launch.

First off, don't leave Steam offline for a week for no reason if you want to play Steam games. Secondly, this really only affects people that want to play certain games on their laptop, and in that case only those games.

But even than, you can just use your phone as a hotspot for a minute. Verification should neither take long, require the best connection nor use more than a few kilobyte of data volume. IMO a none issue in 2018.

Denuvo makes it difficult or impossible to play games without some form of internet connection. Sure lots of people have internet connections, but not everyone does. Requiring an internet connection for offline single-player games is anti-consumer.

This is the same complaint as before, why are you repeating them? In general people that downloads games (many of them by now 50 GB or more per title + multiple GB big patches) have internet connection. If not (for example bought a game on retail that needs Steam) they can't even register the game, Denuvo or not. Verification should neither take long, require the best connection nor use more than a few kilobyte of data volume. IMO a none issue in 2018 (nice, now I am repeating myself as well)! If you have completely shitty internet, the 10 GB Day-One patch will surely be a bigger problem than Denuvo.

If your internet drops without preparing for offline beforehand you can't play your Denuvo crapware.

Or watch Netflix, Amazon Video, HBO Go, Youtube, Vimeo, PornHub, TubeGalore..., listening to Spotify, Pandora, Google Play Music..., you might as well just shoot yourself in if this happens. At the very least I assume you are not paying for any of the above services, am I right?!

If at some point in the future any part of their DRM service chain is shut down due to internet outage or a company going bankrupt, games will be inaccessible. Some people reply "but surely these companies will provide a method access if they are shutting down servers!" If a company is in bankruptcy and there's an outcry to get patches out for 15 year old games, I doubt they're going to make it a priority to devote resources and development time to creating patches. It wouldn't be the first time a library of DRM-encumbered crapware went poof. Remember the single-player game Darkspore? It is impossible for anyone to play it anymore. Neither pirates nor customers can play it. They didn't release a patch to make it work offline. Here's what it shows up as on Origin: Supporting an ecosystem which could disappear your games is anti-consumer.

First off all, Denuvo will not shut down because of an internet outtage?! Unless you assume that the internet will at some point world wide shut down for months or years...?

Other than that, this is actually a very good and reasonable reason to not buy a Denuvo supported title. But at the same time, online MP services for games that many people only die because of the online MP are shutting down all the time. By that logic, you shouldn't buy any games for their MP portion at all. You certainly shouldn't spend money on F2P titles (which are mostly online) either, so no buying packs for Hearthstone, Elder Scrolls Legends etc.

And you also shouldn't be spending any money on other services that rely on an online backend, like Netflix, Amazon Video, HBO Go, Vimeo, Spotify, Pandora or anything from Google that isn't a phone, tablet or speaker. Actually forget about the last one, all digital assistant boxes also need a backend, so no Amazon Echo either.

In many cases after an online game has their servers shut down, modders can get the online portion working again by modifying the executable to work with a new master server list. With Denuvo, when EA says the online fun is over that's the end of it because modders won't be able to fix the game. That's anti-consumer.

The cases in which I can years after a game got released just download a crack to get rid of a copy protection / DRM / anti temper algorithm that isn't getting supported anymore far outnumber the amount of shut down MP titles that I can reasonably (meaning more than two persons online per day) play by a preposterous amount.

Having Denuvo on your games means that if a game comes out that's Oculus Rift only and has strong anti-tamper protections, you'll have no way to ever get it working on other VR platforms. Anti-consumer vendor lock-in.

Completely wrong, I am a Rift owner for over a year but also very active under /r/Vive. All the Rift exclusive games released by Oculus (of which some actually use Denuvo) can be played via with the Vive or other headsets supporting Open VR / Steam VR via a wrapper called Revive (of course with issues like horrible controls or bugs in some cases). Hacking the exe is not necessary at all.

Denuvo locks you into your purchase platform for now to eternity. If you purchase a Denuvo game on Steam, you must use Steam forever or abandon your purchases to the wind. If your Steam account gets hacked or locked, your games are gone, because they were never really yours, and you never really even had a copy of them.

True, but the same is true for any game with an online component that you are interested in.

You can't make playable back-ups of your games. This isn't helping the consumer.

First off, backups of games are not needed anymore. You can just redownload them. Other than that, you can still backup your Steam folder like you always could. This will free you from having to redownload the game after you for example reinstalled Windows or moved to a new PC.

Either this is a completely made up reason or I don't understand the author.

A large point of Denuvo is to enable vendors and publishers to lock down the functionality of their games and provide them with a simplified means of doing all the bad anti-consumer things they've always wanted to do. While Denuvo copy protection may not in and of itself do the something bad ("see Denuvo does nothing wrong!") it enables the publishers to do it.

This argument makes only sense if the author wants to tell us that its ok to pirate games that include "some bad anti-consumer thing by the publisher". Its not really ok. Also Star Wars Battle Front 2 shows that publishers don't need Denuvo to be cunts and that we as consumers don't need to steal games to successfully fight them.

Buying a game on Steam, Origin and Co; leaving a bad rating that informs people about the issue and then refunding makes a way bigger impact than sitting silently at home while playing a pirated copy.

submitted by /u/xxTheGoDxx
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